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Tesla unintended acceleration


fordtech1

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Cleantechnica reports that the person filing that NHTSA complaint doesn't own any Tesla vehicles. He does have a short position in TSLA though. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/19/that-nhtsa-tesla-sudden-unintended-acceleration-petition-created-by-a-tsla-short-seller-who-doesnt-own-a-tesla/

 

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"The person who created the petition is a Tesla [TSLA] short seller. That’s a person who is financially betting that the stock price will go down. As far as I’m aware, there is no law preventing short sellers from pushing negative talking points regarding the companies they are shorting. However,

there is a known problem of this happening.

This Tesla short seller, Brian Sparks, reportedly does not own a Tesla himself. Nonetheless, he has collected claims of SUA in Tesla vehicles and submitted them in a petition to the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). This is something anyone can do to ask that a matter be investigated. I’ll leave you to try to determine why such a person would do that when they don’t own the vehicle in question but do short the company’s stock.

We currently have four unanswered questions: 1) Why is a non-Tesla owner gathering claims of SUA regarding Tesla vehicles and packaging them up into a petition for the NHTSA? 2) Where did the claims actually come from? 3) Why is Sparks shorting TSLA? 4) When did he start shorting TSLA?"

Edited by rperez817
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13 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Cleantechnica reports that the person filing that NHTSA complaint doesn't own any Tesla vehicles. He does have a short position in TSLA though. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/19/that-nhtsa-tesla-sudden-unintended-acceleration-petition-created-by-a-tsla-short-seller-who-doesnt-own-a-tesla/

 

 

So, we are just going to "gloss over" the reports of SUA because he is a douche bag? Just because he is doing something that is reprehensible (and manipulating a stock for personal profit is, in my opinion, illegal but I don't work at the SEC) does that diminish the claims of SUA in a Tesla?

 

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he has collected claims of SUA in Tesla vehicles and submitted them in a petition to the NHTSA

 

Edited by twintornados
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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

So, we are just going to "gloss over" the reports of SUA because he is a douche bag? Just because he is doing something that is reprehensible (and manipulating a stock for personal profit is, in my opinion, illegal but I don't work at the SEC) does that diminish the claims of SUA in a Tesla?

 

No sir, NHTSA doesn't "gloss over" reported complaints regardless of who submitted them. They will investigate Sparks' petition like any other.

 

Most likely, NHTSA's investigation with this petition will come to the same conclusion as previous SUA investigations. Pedal misapplication or driver error was the culprit, not SUA caused by the car itself. You can review details in the Technical Stuffs section of the Cleantechnica article.

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25 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

...Pedal misapplication or driver error was the culprit, not SUA caused by the car itself....

 

So, in other words, like all the rest of the reported SUA incidents.

Nice how you danced around the investigation and laid it on NHTSA's lap since Elon can do no wrong....why wouldn't Tesla look into the allegations as well?

Edited by twintornados
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29 minutes ago, twintornados said:

why wouldn't Tesla look into the allegations as well?

 

From the article.

 

"We (Tesla) investigate the vehicle diagnostic logs in every accident in which a driver claims their car ‘suddenly’ and ‘unexpectedly’ accelerated, and in every case the vehicle’s diagnostic logs confirm that the vehicle operated as designed. Accidents involving ‘pedal misapplication,’ in which a driver presses the accelerator pedal by mistake, occur in all types of vehicles, not just Teslas. The accelerator pedals in Tesla vehicles have two redundant sensors that clearly show us when the pedal is physically pressed down, such as by the driver’s foot."

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17 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

...From the article....

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"We (Tesla) investigate the vehicle diagnostic logs in every accident in which a driver claims their car ‘suddenly’ and ‘unexpectedly’ accelerated, and in every case the vehicle’s diagnostic logs confirm that the vehicle operated as designed. Accidents involving ‘pedal misapplication,’ in which a driver presses the accelerator pedal by mistake, occur in all types of vehicles, not just Teslas. The accelerator pedals in Tesla vehicles have two redundant sensors that clearly show us when the pedal is physically pressed down, such as by the driver’s foot."

 

Nice to see you blindly regurgitating what Tesla "found" in their <ahem> investigation...typically when a person panics in a case of alleged SUA, they will desperately stomp on pretty much everything in the footwell trying to get get the vehicle to stop....interesting to note that Tesla has the same "shuck and jive" game you do with their "...all types of vehicles, not just Teslas." comment.

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10 minutes ago, akirby said:

Hate to say it but I’m with Tesla on this one.

 

Agreed!  As much as people want to resist "big brother", automakers and others (insurance companies, etc) are going to have to start relying on technology, including in-car cameras, to prove that drivers are not focusing on the task at hand.

 

Not much different than the use of red-light cameras. Once you get a ticket in the mail, and watch the video of your vehicle rolling thru a right turn on red, the proof has a way of changing your mind.

 

HRG

Edited by HotRunrGuy
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7 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Agreed!  As much as people want to resist "big brother", automakers and others (insurance companies, etc) are going to have to start relying on technology, including in-car cameras, to prove that drivers are not focusing on the task at hand.

 

Not much different than the use of red-light cameras. Once you get a ticket in the mail, and watch the video of your vehicle rolling thru a right turn on red, the proof has a way of changing your mind.

 

HRG

 

The issue is not so much whether the vehicle accelerated on its own - that is possible.  But the brakes will override and stop the vehicle even at full throttle unless the brakes are defective.

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1 minute ago, akirby said:

 

The issue is not so much whether the vehicle accelerated on its own - that is possible.  But the brakes will override and stop the vehicle even at full throttle unless the brakes are defective.

 

It sounded like many of the reports involved pulled out in front of another vehicle.

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3 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

So, in other words, like all the rest of the reported SUA incidents.

Nice how you danced around the investigation and laid it on NHTSA's lap since Elon can do no wrong....why wouldn't Tesla look into the allegations as well?

 

Then there's those forum members to whom Elon can do no right..

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9 hours ago, fordtech1 said:

Tesla thinks the media follows Tesla fires now. Get millions of cars on the road and see what happens. 

 

Tesla has been dealing with smear campaigns in all types of media since the company was founded. They have grown to be the largest electric automaker in the world (just surpassed BYD in 2019) despite all the smears thus far, and show no signs of losing their lead. 

 

Roger Pressman from Evannex mentioned some defense strategies that Tesla can use against smear campaigns. https://evannex.com/blogs/news/tesla-and-the-smear

 

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  1. State that a coordinated smear is happening; that it isn’t coincidence or grass roots commentary; that professionals are involved, and that the proof is in the similarity and intensity of the negative stories.
  2. Provide examples of negative stories that are provably untrue or misleading.
  3. Emphasize that a double standard is in play—do other automobile companies get the same treatment when, say, one of their vehicles is involved in a car fire?
  4. Note the coincidental timing of the smear and Tesla’s accomplishments—in this case, the release of a revolutionary EV (the Model 3).
  5. Note further that many entities are justifiably threatened by Tesla’s many accomplishments and imply that there is reason to believe that one or more of them are funding the smear (even better, apply investigative resources to prove it!).
  6. Recommend that readers exhibit strong skepticism when they encounter negative press about Tesla, asking whether the stories omit facts, lack context, or are purposely misleading.
  7. Refute all blatantly false reporting or claims

 

Edited by rperez817
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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

5. Note further that many entities are justifiably threatened by Tesla’s many accomplishments and imply that there is reason to believe that one or more of them are funding the smear (even better, apply investigative resources to prove it!).

 

 

Note that any naming of names in #5, in the absence of the suggested parenthetical, is itself a smear.

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SUA...i personally know the engineer who suffered this issue at a stop light...tesla refused the recommended fix...tesla needs to be under same rules as detroit...yet they seem to skirt there problematic issues...funny how that works

Edited by snooter
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Official statement from Tesla regarding SUA petition, January 20, 2020. https://www.tesla.com/blog/no-unintended-acceleration-tesla-vehicles

 

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There is no “unintended acceleration” in Tesla vehicles

The Tesla Team January 20, 2020

This petition is completely false and was brought by a Tesla short-seller. We investigate every single incident where the driver alleges to us that their vehicle accelerated contrary to their input, and in every case where we had the vehicle's data, we confirmed that the car operated as designed. In other words, the car accelerates if, and only if, the driver told it to do so, and it slows or stops when the driver applies the brake.

While accidents caused by a mistaken press of the accelerator pedal have been alleged for nearly every make/model of vehicle on the road, the accelerator pedals in Model S, X and 3 vehicles have two independent position sensors, and if there is any error, the system defaults to cut off motor torque. Likewise, applying the brake pedal simultaneously with the accelerator pedal will override the accelerator pedal input and cut off motor torque, and regardless of the torque, sustained braking will stop the car. Unique to Tesla, we also use the Autopilot sensor suite to help distinguish potential pedal misapplications and cut torque to mitigate or prevent accidents when we’re confident the driver’s input was unintentional. Each system is independent and records data, so we can examine exactly what happened.

We are transparent with NHTSA, and routinely review customer complaints of unintended acceleration with them. Over the past several years, we discussed with NHTSA the majority of the complaints alleged in the petition. In every case we reviewed with them, the data proved the vehicle functioned properly.

Edited by rperez817
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