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Savage Geese Reviews the new Explorer


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54 minutes ago, akirby said:

It's not so bad that it needs an "emergency" refresh. 

 

Ultimately, the go/no go decision for an Explorer emergency refresh depends on what Ford's sales goals are in the next 2-3 years. Savage Geese said in his video that 2020 Explorer was designed for existing Ford vehicle owners and fleets. If Ford is satisfied catering mostly to those groups of customers, they don't need to do any refresh at all really.

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5 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

AK, I think you are too generous to call it a "little disappointing".  Given the complexity of the new vehicle, given the magnitude of a total plant "gutting", given the nature of the CAP workforce, where was the chain of command -Hackett, Hinrichs- guys making huge bucks as this train wreck was happening?

I recall a post by someone recently who looked at two new Explorers on a dealer lot.  One with an earlier build date had a certain shield in place,  (that had been identified previously as a problem) while a second one with a more recent build date did NOT have the shield in place.

 

How does that happen?  I can recall watching the videos of the CAP plant conversion and thinking .."Amazing, just think of the engineering, co-ordination required to get all this highly mechanized, computer controlled system to function properly".  Apparently Hackett figured .".No problem-done this before at Steelcase".

 

I have two sons, one has a 2019 Ranger Lariat-beautiful -loves it.  One has a 2019 Expy Max- beautiful-loves it. The Ranger is in the shop with $15,000 in bodydamage-some dumb ass woman blew through an intersection ("failure to  yield at Intersection") and my son broadsides her .  Over 100 parts to fix- 30 on backorder-and this is just front end damage.  The Expy? I'm checking it out and the complexity in terms of all of the systems  it has blow my mind.

 

In both cases I think this just illustrates the need for people who understand what was possible 10 years ago to insure a positive end result, no longer applies today.  Remember when Mulally came on board and at a meeting some guy questioned if he understood the complexities of building cars?  His answer was to the effect an airliner has like 5.7 million parts.

 

Seems like perhaps the emphasis is "get it out the door, we will  handle the details later".  Or has Nancy Pelosi said- "just approve it, then we will read what it says"?

 

That has nothing to do with the interior quality which is the only thing I was referrring to in regards to whether it needs an "emergency refresh".

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2 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

That has nothing to do with the interior quality which is the only thing I was referrring to in regards to whether it needs an "emergency refresh".


It is possible to tighten up fit and finish during a current model year. Engineering changes happen all the time mid-year. 

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6 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Savage Geese said in his video that 2020 Explorer was designed for existing Ford vehicle owners and fleets. If Ford is satisfied catering mostly to those groups of customers, they don't need to do any refresh at all really.

 

That's a cute line but not necessarily accurate.

 

Almost any design can be better - the question is whether it's so bad that it turns away customers.   If somebody (and it doesn't have to be a Ford owner of fanboi) sees the Explorer and likes the way it looks and then goes and drives one, is the interior so bad that they're going to walk away?   Or is it just bad in a side by side nitpicking comparison with another vehicle?

 

Huge difference between "it could be a lot better" and "it's so bad sales will tank and it requires an emergency refresh".

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3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It is possible to tighten up fit and finish during a current model year. Engineering changes happen all the time mid-year. 

 

And I expect them to do that with regards to fit and finish type stuff, but I don't see them doing wholesale changes for at least 2-3 years.

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Just now, akirby said:

 

And I expect them to do that with regards to fit and finish type stuff, but I don't see them doing wholesale changes for at least 2-3 years.


Agreed. The only interior part I hope they change is the screen orientation. Why they chose to go with portrait orientation I haven't a clue but it just looks so out of place to me. 

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3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Agreed. The only interior part I hope they change is the screen orientation. Why they chose to go with portrait orientation I haven't a clue but it just looks so out of place to me. 

 

I think Portrait is better if it's lower down like RAM.  I don't think they wanted to change the entire center stack to do that and it was cheaper and easier to just replace the smaller screen with a larger one and keep the rest of it the same.   Now that's a change they could make for 2021 if they wanted to.

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11 minutes ago, akirby said:

If somebody (and it doesn't have to be a Ford owner of fanboi) sees the Explorer and likes the way it looks and then goes and drives one, is the interior so bad that they're going to walk away?   Or is it just bad in a side by side nitpicking comparison with another vehicle?

 

That's what Savage Geese was getting at in his video. In isolation, most of 2020 Explorer's negatives may not be that bad. Especially for customers (mostly existing Ford owners, but some others too) who have older vehicles and/or who don't have high expectations. For customers who compare 2020 Explorer against others in the segment, Explorer's lack of refinement and general impression of being "incomplete" is impossible to miss though.

 

Ford has been able to coast on the Explorer nameplate's strength alone for a very long time. How much longer can that go? That might be something Ford executives think about in their decision making for an Explorer emergency refresh. When Honda did an emergency refresh on the ninth gen Civic a year after it was introduced, it wasn't because of sales declines for that model. U.S. Civic sales actually went up more the 40% in 2012 compared to the year before. Honda executives however realized the potential damage to the Civic's and Honda's reputation due to 2012 Civic's issues, and took action quickly to fix them in the following model year. 

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45 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Ultimately, the go/no go decision for an Explorer emergency refresh depends on what Ford's sales goals are in the next 2-3 years. Savage Geese said in his video that 2020 Explorer was designed for existing Ford vehicle owners and fleets. If Ford is satisfied catering mostly to those groups of customers, they don't need to do any refresh at all really.

 

Yes because Mr. Savage Geese knows exactly what Ford is/was thinking.  His comments are 100% his opinion and not fact.  And some of his opinions were straight out wrong (based on facts that prove such).

 

I will say, he was right in regards to some of what he said (I should say, I feel the same way).  I will also say that he said many times that he really likes the Explorer.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's what Savage Geese was getting at in his video. In isolation, most of 2020 Explorer's negatives may not be that bad. Especially for customers (mostly existing Ford owners, but some others too) who have older vehicles and/or who don't have high expectations. For customers who compare 2020 Explorer against others in the segment, Explorer's lack of refinement and general impression of being "incomplete" is impossible to miss though.

 

Ford has been able to coast on the Explorer nameplate's strength alone for a very long time. How much longer can that go? That might be something Ford executives think about in their decision making for an Explorer emergency refresh. When Honda did an emergency refresh on the ninth gen Civic a year after it was introduced, it wasn't because of sales declines for that model. U.S. Civic sales actually went up more the 40% in 2012 compared to the year before. Honda executives however realized the potential damage to the Civic's and Honda's reputation due to 2012 Civic's issues, and took action quickly to fix them in the following model year. 

 

Well it's not a BEV so it won't even be on sale or matter in 5 years, right?

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

 

That has nothing to do with the interior quality which is the only thing I was referrring to in regards to whether it needs an "emergency refresh".

OK-sorry-I would agree on that for sure- "emergency refresh" is last thing it needs.  I think it is a good looking vehicle that just has to be built correctly-with all the parts in place- and with all systems properly "talking" to one another.

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It usually takes a full model year (sometimes close to 2) for parts supply to be consistent. 

Thx-that I understand.   As to my point on the 30 parts on back order , I think my son said the complete parts list was over 100 when they started!  I was surprised they got as many  as they did as quickly as they  did.  Thanks to crash standards and all that it is not a simple vehicle any longer.  Outside of the engine I would bet my 04 Ranger doesn't have 100 parts in the entire front clip?

 

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:27 PM, hbalek said:

The only thing I don't like about the 10.1 inch screen is the camera image placement.  Yes it is too small but there are 3 buttons at the bottom that are very easy to use if you want a larger rear-view image.  It fills the width of the screen if you really need to see what's behind you.  It was unfair of him to make the pinch and zoom gesture for that camera image without mentioning that it has  3 view buttons below the image.  I agree with other critics who said the 2 camera images should be stacked to fill up more of the screen but when you're in navigation mode or other modes the vertical screen really does show you more information than the horizontally oriented one, which would require more scrolling to see complete lists and such.  No vehicle is perfect and he's a very finnicky critic. But the fun-to-drive factor of this vehicle  not to mention its stunning looks and presence along with comfort and premium features usually not offered on mainstream brands make it stand out from the pack. Flaws and all this vehicle is never boring!  I've had this Explorer ST now for about 2 months and I'm very happy with this purchase decision over the Lincoln Nautilus or Ford Edge ST!

 

On 1/26/2020 at 7:07 AM, blwnsmoke said:

 

Ford should allow the last setting to stay so we dont have to keep hitting the 3 buttons everytime.  It should be full with taking up 2/3s of the top and then the radar sensors taking up the bottom 1/3.

 

 

I would agree that the camera setup on the vertical screen isn't good.  They unfortunately use the same setup as the smaller screen for the bigger one.

 

The vertical screen should have the top be your main camera image, and on the bottom, you could see the overview and sensor views.

 

----

 

I wonder if he got a bad one.  I don't experience any of the issues with the transmission or suspension he did in my mom's ST.

 

I can agree with some of the interior nitpicks, though.

Edited by rmc523
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21 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Well it's not a BEV so it won't even be on sale or matter in 5 years, right?

 

That's what Ford executives may be thinking. To them, little attention paid to detail and every expense spared to cut costs with ICE powered vehicles other than F-Series may be fine. That approach could provide enough cash flow in the short term as Ford fully transitions to BEV, autonomy, and mobility services.

 

I just hope Ford's reputation doesn't sink much further during the transition. Once damaged, a company's reputation is not easy to restore.

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44 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Thx-that I understand.   As to my point on the 30 parts on back order , I think my son said the complete parts list was over 100 when they started!  I was surprised they got as many  as they did as quickly as they  did.  Thanks to crash standards and all that it is not a simple vehicle any longer.  Outside of the engine I would bet my 04 Ranger doesn't have 100 parts in the entire front clip?

 


break everything down to individual pieces before it was all welded together and I'll bet you do. 

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's what Ford executives may be thinking. To them, little attention paid to detail and every expense spared to cut costs with ICE powered vehicles other than F-Series may be fine. That approach could provide enough cash flow in the short term as Ford fully transitions to BEV, autonomy, and mobility services.

 

I just hope Ford's reputation doesn't sink much further during the transition. Once damaged, a company's reputation is not easy to restore.

They are not fully transitioning to lectrics....what they are doing is a logical approach to what may come 15 years down the road....what is killing ford right now are interiors (f series single cab is pathetic) and spate of qc issues

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

 

And I expect them to do that with regards to fit and finish type stuff, but I don't see them doing wholesale changes for at least 2-3 years.

 

There were two 2020 Explorers and two 2020 Escapes at the Harrisburg Auto Show this past weekend. I was able to sit in all of them.


Both exterior and interior workmanship levels were acceptable. The exterior workmanship of the Explorers, in particular, was a HUGE improvement over the first Explorers that had been shipped to our Ford dealer.

 

A concern was that the interior trim of both the Explorer and Escape isn't quite as nice as that of the competitive Toyota vehicles across the aisle.

 

Although the new Toyota RAV-4 is "stop-you-in-your-tracks" ugly, in my opinion. So there's that...

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22 minutes ago, grbeck said:

A concern was that the interior trim of both the Explorer and Escape isn't quite as nice as that of the competitive Toyota vehicles across the aisle.

 

In my opinion as long as the ergonomics are ok most buyers will go by exterior styling, price and features before they would ever do a detailed comparison of the interior quality.

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26 minutes ago, snooter said:

But you feel and "live" with the interior and not the exterior.....only ferrari could sell on exterior with a 5 gallon bucket as a front seat....ford needs to hire some italians in the design studio...they know how to design both apects....

 

There is nothing bad about the interior.  You guys act like it came out of a Yugo....

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The wife and I are currently looking at three row SUVs. It will be her daily vehicle. I currently drive a 17' F150 XLT and her a 12' Fusion SE. My local dealership sells both Ford and Hyundai. Here is our story of checking out the Explorer and Palisade this past Saturday. 

 

We first checked out the Explorer XLT, black interior with captains chairs. In regards to interiors I was fine with it. The hard plastics everywhere didn't bother me because that is what my truck has.  All my wife said was " It's OK" when it came to the interior not showing any emotion at all. One thing alarming is when you sat in either of front seats in made a creaking sound. We may be from Wisconsin but we aren't over weight :)

 

We then checked out the Palisade SEL with black cloth. My wife was all smiles when she sat in the Palisade. Her words:  " Whoaaa you have to see this" , "Look at all this space",  "Come check this out",  "These captain chairs are way more comfortable", "This feels so high end" . I will be honest, I was impressed with the interior as well except the push button gear selector. 

 

She went from no emotion looking at the Explorer to excitement when it came to the Palisade. We have always owned Fords......but that may change soon. 

Edited by 17F150RR
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20 minutes ago, 17F150RR said:

The wife and I are currently looking at three row SUVs. It will be her daily vehicle. I currently drive a 17' F150 XLT and her a 12' Fusion SE. My local dealership sells both Ford and Hyundai. Here is our story of checking out the Explorer and Palisade this past Saturday. 

 

We first checked out the Explorer XLT, black interior with captains chairs. In regards to interiors I was fine with it. The hard plastics everywhere didn't bother me because that is what my truck has.  All my wife said was " It's OK" when it came to the interior not showing any emotion at all. One thing alarming is when you sat in either of front seats in made a creaking sound. We may be from Wisconsin but we aren't over weight :)

 

We then checked out the Palisade SEL with black cloth. My wife was all smiles when she sat in the Palisade. Her words:  " Whoaaa you have to see this" , "Look at all this space",  "Come check this out",  "These captain chairs are way more comfortable", "This feels so high end" . I will be honest, I was impressed with the interior as well except the push button gear selector. 

 

She went from no emotion looking at the Explorer to excitement when it came to the Palisade. We have always owned Fords......but that may change soon. 

 

What was the price difference?

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The japanesse and korens understand its the "feel" the interior...the foreign guys are also able to put in materials that defy the reality of the perception...the product appears far more luxury oriented than it actually is....i will never get my wife back into a ford product..she sat in the mazda after we had looked at ford and we came home in the mazda that day (contrary to what mazda claims the mazda3 aint that great)....i simply do not understand why ford persists in cutting corners on the interior...only been that way for 40 years so i guess they are convinced us buyers who dump $45k in a ford product do not care....i cant even get the drivers seat reclinded properly in the single cab f350 due to the jump seat seat belt being bolted right behind the driver's seat...utter engineering failure on that....hard plastic on F series is a no brainer as how else could i ever get the mud out....when it comes to women though no way will mine tolerate hard plastic and cheap interior appointments even if the vehicle is actually good...perception/feel i am convinced sells auto's to women

Edited by snooter
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