Savage Geese Reviews the new Explorer

[coupe3w]

6 minutes ago, snooter said:

The japanesse and korens understand its the "feel" the interior...the foreign guys are also able to put in materials that defy the reality of the perception...the product appears far more luxury oriented than it actually is....i will never get my wife back into a ford product..she sat in the mazda after we had looked at ford and we came home in the mazda that day (contrary to what mazda claims the mazda3 aint that great)....i simply do not understand why ford persists in cutting corners on the interior...only been that way for 40 years so i guess they are convinced us buyers who dump $45k in a ford product do not care....i cant even get the drivers seat reclinded properly in the single cab f350 due to the jump seat seat belt being bolted right behind the driver's seat...utter engineering failure on that....hard plastic on F series is a no brainer as how else could i ever get the mud out....when it comes to women though no way will mine tolerate hard plastic and cheap interior appointments even if the vehicle is actually good...perception/feel i am convinced sells auto's to women

Funny thing is most of the interior material selection done at Ford is by women.

[snooter]

I am aware that has been referenced herecand elsewhere.....problem is everything they want to do ends up getting axed and changed....i cant even get my oldest daughter on a ford lot...she constantly says "they feel cheap"......dang kid thinks hyundai looks and feels the best

[akirby]

40 minutes ago, 17F150RR said:

The wife and I are currently looking at three row SUVs. It will be her daily vehicle. I currently drive a 17' F150 XLT and her a 12' Fusion SE. My local dealership sells both Ford and Hyundai. Here is our story of checking out the Explorer and Palisade this past Saturday. 

 

We first checked out the Explorer XLT, black interior with captains chairs. In regards to interiors I was fine with it. The hard plastics everywhere didn't bother me because that is what my truck has.  All my wife said was " It's OK" when it came to the interior not showing any emotion at all. One thing alarming is when you sat in either of front seats in made a creaking sound. We may be from Wisconsin but we aren't over weight

 

We then checked out the Palisade SEL with black cloth. My wife was all smiles when she sat in the Palisade. Her words:  " Whoaaa you have to see this" , "Look at all this space",  "Come check this out",  "These captain chairs are way more comfortable", "This feels so high end" . I will be honest, I was impressed with the interior as well except the push button gear selector. 

 

She went from no emotion looking at the Explorer to excitement when it came to the Palisade. We have always owned Fords......but that may change soon. 

 

If she had sat in an Aviator she would have likely had the same impression.   Why not at least a Limited or Platinum if she wanted the nicer interior?   Hyundai/Kia are putting luxury interiors into plebian platforms and for a lot of folks that's all that seems to matter.  

[snooter]

 You have just explained the issue with atp....ford has priced people out of the market by going too far upscale and neglecting lower priced models...problem is somebody else figured out how to sell vehicles to that market at far less purchase price that appear far more expensive/luxurious than they actually are...

Edited January 27, 2020 by snooter

[rperez817]

13 minutes ago, snooter said:

i simply do not understand why ford persists in cutting corners on the interior...only been that way for 40 years so i guess they are convinced us buyers who dump $45k in a ford product do not care.

 

Possible reasons are as follows.

1.) Ford's finance people set cost reduction targets for new vehicle projects. Interior designers then do their part to hit those targets. That can result in using cheap materials and basic designs, and not paying much attention to fit and finish.

2.) As you correctly noted, Ford brand vehicles (other than maybe the super high end F-Series and Expeditions like King Ranch) had cheap, boring interiors for 40+ years. Upgrading interior quality and design hasn't been a high priority for most Ford brand vehicles.

3.) As you also correctly noted, a lot of Ford customers don't care. As long as the interior in a new Ford model isn't much worse than the previous version, and customers don't do much comparison shopping, it should be acceptable.  

 

Plus, Ford has a high owner loyalty rate. There are many people (I'll admit to being one of them) who will buy a Ford because it's a Ford. Even with a cheap, dull interior. Of course, the example you mentioned of your wife choosing a Mazda 3, and the example of 17F150RR and his wife comparing Explorer with Palisade make it clear that customer loyalty isn't guaranteed to last. So there is definitely a potential risk for Ford Motor Co if it fails to upgrade interior quality and design in Ford brand vehicles over the long term.

[17F150RR]

50 minutes ago, coupe3w said:

 

What was the price difference?

Explorer $47k MSRP ( Before rebates and discount)

 

Palisade $38K MSRP

[snooter]

23 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Possible reasons are as follows.

1.) Ford's finance people set cost reduction targets for new vehicle projects. Interior designers then do their part to hit those targets. That can result in using cheap materials and basic designs, and not paying much attention to fit and finish.

2.) As you correctly noted, Ford brand vehicles (other than maybe the super high end F-Series and Expeditions like King Ranch) had cheap, boring interiors for 40+ years. Upgrading interior quality and design hasn't been a high priority for most Ford brand vehicles.

3.) As you also correctly noted, a lot of Ford customers don't care. As long as the interior in a new Ford model isn't much worse than the previous version, and customers don't do much comparison shopping, it should be acceptable.  

 

Plus, Ford has a high owner loyalty rate. There are many people (I'll admit to being one of them) who will buy a Ford because it's a Ford. Even with a cheap, dull interior. Of course, the example you mentioned of your wife choosing a Mazda 3, and the example of 17F150RR and his wife comparing Explorer with Palisade make it clear that customer loyalty isn't guaranteed to last. So there is definitely a potential risk for Ford Motor Co if it fails to upgrade interior quality and design in Ford brand vehicles over the long term.

Gramps bought a new model A....fair value for what you get is severly lacking at ford today especially when compared to asking price...then they cut cars which first time buyers could actually afford..fair assessment on your part

[17F150RR]

50 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

If she had sat in an Aviator she would have likely had the same impression.   Why not at least a Limited or Platinum if she wanted the nicer interior?   Hyundai/Kia are putting luxury interiors into plebian platforms and for a lot of folks that's all that seems to matter.  

XLT fits our budget. Limited would be pushing near $54k after you add 4wd and a tow package. 
 

I don’t expect a luxury interior at the XLT trim but for the money it is eye opening what Hyundai and Kia offer. Then you add their length of warranty on top of it. 
 

With all of the issue my 2017 F150 has been in the shop with in the first three years and 30k miles, length of warranty is now important to me. Just found out today one of the rear door handles is no longer working so back it goes again. 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, 17F150RR said:

Explorer $47k MSRP ( Before rebates and discount)

 

Palisade $38K MSRP

Street price on the Explorer should be around $42K.  There were reports of the telluride and palisade advertised for $10K over MSRP.  I don’t think they’re selling for that but MSRP wouldn’t surprise me.

 

I still think they’re underpricing the market on purpose and will raise prices later.  And I think Ford will add some rebates and lower MsRP if necessary.

 

But you have to hand it to them for creating a desirable product.

[tbone]

11 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It usually takes a full model year (sometimes close to 2) for parts supply to be consistent. 

My friends bought a Nissan Armada when the current gen first came out.  They were in accident and it took three months to repair it due to lack of parts. As stated, I think it’s pretty common. 

[17F150RR]

11 hours ago, akirby said:

Street price on the Explorer should be around $42K.  There were reports of the telluride and palisade advertised for $10K over MSRP.  I don’t think they’re selling for that but MSRP wouldn’t surprise me.

 

I still think they’re underpricing the market on purpose and will raise prices later.  And I think Ford will add some rebates and lower MsRP if necessary.

 

But you have to hand it to them for creating a desirable product.

I was discouraged to see Ford already increased some of the optional package prices.  For instance the comfort package went from $715 to $825. Tow package from $710 to $795.  If they are doing this already I don’t see them lowering the MSRP any time soon.  
 

I could see rebates being increased. However my region already has $2750 and the region nearby is already at $4250 in rebates with $1000 additional  in trade assist. These already seem significant. 
 

Telluride supply is low in my area but selling for MSRP.   Palisade doesn’t seem to be as hot. Dealers in my area are already advertising discounts (Roughly $1k) off MSRP. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by 17F150RR

[Dlcorbett]

If the explorer xlt is $47k, you should look at the palisade limited, which is $47k.  That interior blew the doors off my 18 expy Ltd Interior.  

[17F150RR]

We also looked at a limited. You are right the on the inside the Palisade Limited is amazing compared to anything the Explorer offers at that price point. Heated and ventilated first and second row seats is crazy for $47k.  Leather quality is beautiful. 
 

 

[tbone]

14 hours ago, 17F150RR said:

XLT fits our budget. Limited would be pushing near $54k after you add 4wd and a tow package. 
 

I don’t expect a luxury interior at the XLT trim but for the money it is eye opening what Hyundai and Kia offer. Then you add their length of warranty on top of it. 
 

With all of the issue my 2017 F150 has been in the shop with in the first three years and 30k miles, length of warranty is now important to me. Just found out today one of the rear door handles is no longer working so back it goes again. 

I’m a big Ford fan, but the facts regarding the Explorer are hard to deny. The cost differences are pretty significant.  Most people are  not car enthusiasts like the people on here.  They don’t care if the Explorer is a mechanically  superior platform, they just care about how it looks and feels inside and out,  and what is it going to cost them per month. My casual observations around my area is the Pallisades/Telluride are winning this battle, at least for now.  I think Ford should do an early refresh as there are things that need to be improved at their price point.  
 

By the way, I own a 20 Explorer ST, so I’m speaking from a knowledge position regarding the vehicle. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by tbone

[tbone]

1 hour ago, Dlcorbett said:

If the explorer xlt is $47k, you should look at the palisade limited, which is $47k.  That interior blew the doors off my 18 expy Ltd Interior.  

Not too hard to do though since the Expedition interior is basically the 2015 F150 interior.  I hope they do some differentiation in the future.  

[grbeck]

18 hours ago, akirby said:

 

In my opinion as long as the ergonomics are ok most buyers will go by exterior styling, price and features before they would ever do a detailed comparison of the interior quality.

 

I sat in the Kia Telluride at the show. The interior is nice for the price...people are going to notice the effort that Hyundai and Kia have put into these vehicles.

 

I like the Explorer and the Escape, but we have to remember that all of us who post on this site are NOT typical new-vehicle buyers.

[Trailhiker]

16 hours ago, 17F150RR said:

Explorer $47k MSRP ( Before rebates and discount)

 

Palisade $38K MSRP

I think the bottom line is that Ford needs to make a very decent profit to counter the huge expense of offering BEVs that they may lose money on initially.

 

That said, a great design could use a lower quality material "if" fit and finish are spot on.

A poor design with improper fit and finish really can make lower quality materials stand out like a sore thumb.

[rperez817]

8 minutes ago, Trailhiker said:

That said, a great design could use a lower quality material "if" fit and finish are spot on.

A poor design with improper fit and finish really can make lower quality materials stand out like a sore thumb.

 

Well said Trailhiker sir. This is one area where I hope Jim Hackett's "design thinking" will lead to more appealing interiors in future Ford vehicles without huge cost increases. 

[akirby]

This is really hard to understand.  We know Hackett wants more premium vehicles that can command premium pricing and higher profit margins.  So they go to CD6 which should offer premium performance.   They go all in on Aviator with max performance and max amenities.   They do Explorer ST.    Then they give Explorer marginal ride and handling and marginal interior materials but still give it a premium price tag.   Seems counterintuitive.

 
Maybe they're just testing the waters with the high MSRPs and that will come down if necessary with rebates and MSRP adjustments.   Maybe they're having internal issues trying to meet the cost targets.  Or maybe they put all the resources on Aviator and just didn't have time to finish Explorer the way they wanted.   I think that's the most likely explanation.  

 

Either way this isn't going to "tarnish" Explorer or Ford's reputation much and I think they'll still see healthy sales - at least matching the old model within the next 6 months.   But still a little disappointing.

 

[grbeck]

The basic platform appears to be solid.

 

Car and Driver was surprised that the Explorer is lighter than the Buick Enclave. Apparently the Ford feels much more "solid."

[rperez817]

18 hours ago, coupe3w said:

Is Ford using plant based foam in their seats now?

 

Ford announced a couple years ago that the company marked 10 years of using soybean based polyols in seat cushions, seatbacks, and headrests. I would be surprised if Ford doesn't still use those materials today. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/11/02/from-seed-to-seat--how-soy-foam-proved-key-to-fords-push-to-use-.html  

 

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

This is really hard to understand.  We know Hackett wants more premium vehicles that can command premium pricing and higher profit margins.  So they go to CD6 which should offer premium performance.   They go all in on Aviator with max performance and max amenities.   They do Explorer ST.    Then they give Explorer marginal ride and handling and marginal interior materials but still give it a premium price tag.   Seems counterintuitive.

 
Maybe they're just testing the waters with the high MSRPs and that will come down if necessary with rebates and MSRP adjustments.   Maybe they're having internal issues trying to meet the cost targets.  Or maybe they put all the resources on Aviator and just didn't have time to finish Explorer the way they wanted.   I think that's the most likely explanation.  

 

Either way this isn't going to "tarnish" Explorer or Ford's reputation much and I think they'll still see healthy sales - at least matching the old model within the next 6 months.   But still a little disappointing.

 

 

They did similar with the Escape - charging higher prices, but went cheaper on the interior.

 

100% agree it's counter-intuitive.  One good thing they did under Mulally was offer a ton of value/options for the price.

[mybkvu]

20 hours ago, akirby said:

 

In my opinion as long as the ergonomics are ok most buyers will go by exterior styling, price and features before they would ever do a detailed comparison of the interior quality.

 

Try telling that to all the guys over at ranger5g that are pissed about their stretchy leather Lariats. It doesn't appear to be an isolated problem for one huge fatass.

[Dlcorbett]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:05 AM, tbone said:

Not too hard to do though since the Expedition interior is basically the 2015 F150 interior.  I hope they do some differentiation in the future.  

 

Design and quality wise yes and was highly disappointed when the expy came out considering the price increase, however even the palisade couldn't match the comfort of the expy.  I also thought the expy drove better (wifey did 2) even on base springs.  Ima miss her.

 

Again, ford bakes high end cakes half way but wants you to pay full.  I understand they are working high end down ( working on Lincoln product then working on ford product around it) atleast that's what it seems like, but none of their new products come out finished.  I want a new refreshed expy or navi to replace the one I had but as much as I loved the one I had, it wasn't polished at all. A shame as the car itself was the best I've ever owned.  Fortunately  for expy, FS suv class isn't huge enough to be exposed.  That won't fly for explorer or escape, and ppl are seeing it.  Explorer is getting panned even on rwd platform because it's half baked and has odd design choices.  Tiny third row(to make expy more appealing), std 6 seating, 5k tow rating (again, see above), sporty drive priority in a family car (odd considering theres a sport trim in lineup), dated infotainment, premium price tag.  Now escape is seeing this too, albeit not as panned.  

 

There's another thread about a new CEO, I'm not gonna say one is needed but i will say he needs to make changes.  The products have huge potential, and some are stunners (new lincolns/mustangs mainly), but ford stymies their products by not doing their best, just good enough.  The explorer is a clear example.  Its not the assembly issues thats causing slow sales, its the perceived quality per unit cost compared to its competitors. Hopefully the ceo wakes the heck up, sees this truth, and makes the changes.

[justins]

Regarding screen orientation and how it's used - is this not something that could be updated OTA in a later version of sync? Which of course begs the question of why wasn't it done in the first place, but as more Ford vehicles get larger (and portrait orientation) screens, surely this can and will be rectified?