fuzzymoomoo Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 21 minutes ago, T-dubz said: Buick Regal tour x wagon which is now discontinued 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 hours ago, mackinaw said: Wagon's worked just fine back in 1962. Conestoga wagons worked just fine back in 1842. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Bellanca said: Like myself and I’m wagering many others I’d rather have my Aviator, which is low slung, than say something more akin to an Outback. If it ends up being something like an Outback I don’t see it being a big seller, but we will see in the time to come. Consider it a half step towards a proper utility, something to encourage those remaining car buyers to switch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 On 1/25/2020 at 3:27 PM, jpd80 said: It would be interesting to know if Ford intends to build the Fusion crossover with the next gen Edge in Canada or keep it going at Hermosillo. I guess it depends how much production space is needed for Transit connect and baby Bronco plus the TC based pick up...... Oakville would be great. This would also be a good vehicle for FRAP to build. FRAP used to assemble the Fusion and the Mazda 6 wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Footballfan said: Oakville would be great. This would also be a good vehicle for FRAP to build. FRAP used to assemble the Fusion and the Mazda 6 wagon. If I were going to bet, I would say Oakville...they have the capacity now that MKT and Flex are out of production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: which is now discontinued And was also an Opel, which I'm sure was part of the reason it was cancelled also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: And was also an Opel, which I'm sure was part of the reason it was cancelled also. you could replace the Buick with any other non Subaru wagon, I just mentioned that one because it was the only one I could think of that wasn’t a luxury wagon. I’d be surprised if you could find one that sold over 20k last year. Hell I’d be surprised if you found one that sold over 10k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, twintornados said: If I were going to bet, I would say Oakville...they have the capacity now that MKT and Flex are out of production. Like FRAP doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Like FRAP doesn't? From what Ford is saying (or not saying) it sounds like FRAP is getting BEV lines. If the NG Fusion mule is C2 based and next gen Edge/Nautilus are going to be C2 based, it would make perfect sense to build them at Oakville, especially if it will be a niche volume line like Flex/MKT were. But, you are right, FRAP has room too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I read somewhere that Ford has applied for a trademark for the name Stormrunner or something similar filed in Europe. If this applies here, it may be a Europe only model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Any word on what chassis the NG Fusion will be on? I'm hoping for CD6, but not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, twintornados said: From what Ford is saying (or not saying) it sounds like FRAP is getting BEV lines. They’re not, that plan was changed. The BEV lines that FRAP was supposed to get are going to Ohio now instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I work at Oakville and I can’t help but be skeptical when it comes to ford giving us a substantial investment. I hope I’m wrong. We may get all new edge nautilus but I have little faith in the unifor union up here. We will get hammered at contract time. We don’t have 8 plants up here to fight ford for a good contract. St Thomas assembly plant and Ontario truck plant are long gone so we may just have to take what ford gets 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: I work at Oakville and I can’t help but be skeptical when it comes to ford giving us a substantial investment. I hope I’m wrong. We may get all new edge nautilus but I have little faith in the unifor union up here. We will get hammered at contract time. We don’t have 8 plants up here to fight ford for a good contract. St Thomas assembly plant and Ontario truck plant are long gone so we may just have to take what ford gets Fight the good fight brother. We got your back over here on this side of the border. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, NLPRacing said: Any word on what chassis the NG Fusion will be on? I'm hoping for CD6, but not holding my breath. C2. That's why a lot of the mules are hacked up Focii. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: I work at Oakville and I can’t help but be skeptical when it comes to ford giving us a substantial investment. I hope I’m wrong. We may get all new edge nautilus but I have little faith in the unifor union up here. We will get hammered at contract time. We don’t have 8 plants up here to fight ford for a good contract. St Thomas assembly plant and Ontario truck plant are long gone so we may just have to take what ford gets I am a fellow Union member and understand where you are coming from, but keep the faith bro, your quality of work and flexibility of that plant are Oakvilles strong suits.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Thanks guys, I want all our plants to do well and get investment regardless of location. Lots of pissed off people in here cause we lost our 3rd shifts in body and paint and 400 getting laid off. It’s the nature of the industry though these things happen. Plant isn’t closing or anything like GM Oshawa but it should be interesting later this year contract time. People in here also think we may get ford courier, I find that interesting 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 22 hours ago, T-dubz said: I agree. Subaru has the only wagons in the entire industry that sell in numbers high enough to matter. The other contenders are usually luxury brands like Volvo, Mercedes or bmw that charge so much for their wagons that it’s ok if they only sell a few of them. In 2018, wagons made up 1.4% of the entire market. The outback made up 1.2% so that left .2% for all the other wagons. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoblog.com/amp/2019/10/19/subaru-outback-sales/ They have marketed their vehicles well and they definitely have a cult like following, which is why I don’t see ford poaching any of Subaru’s customers. the outback also starts at $26k. I don’t see ford selling this thing that cheap either. The edge starts at 31k and the escape starts right below 25k for comparison. I hope I’m wrong, but im guessing this thing ends up more like the Buick Regal tour x wagon than Subaru Outback. Outback is not a wagon though. It is a conventional 5 seat midsize CUV with no wagon counterpart. It's not based on a wagon... it is designed as a CUV from the ground up. It shares a platform with Legacy sedan just like Edge shares the platform with Fusion. Subaru hasn't sold a Legacy wagon in almost 10 years. Ford is not trying to sell a wagon. It is trying to meet the growing CUV market with different permutation of bodystyles. CUV is going to become like cars... there is going to be fastback ones, squareback ones, longish one that seats extra people, and even coupe ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 50 minutes ago, bzcat said: Outback is not a wagon though. It is a conventional 5 seat midsize CUV with no wagon counterpart. It's not based on a wagon... it is designed as a CUV from the ground up. It shares a platform with Legacy sedan just like Edge shares the platform with Fusion. Subaru hasn't sold a Legacy wagon in almost 10 years. Ford is not trying to sell a wagon. It is trying to meet the growing CUV market with different permutation of bodystyles. CUV is going to become like cars... there is going to be fastback ones, squareback ones, longish one that seats extra people, and even coupe ones. Subaru has sold a Legacy wagon is other markets like Japan. And the Outback is not a built from scratch crossover. It's a lifted Legacy wagon. The Outback and Legacy share a heck of a lot more than just a platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, bzcat said: Outback is not a wagon though. It is a conventional 5 seat midsize CUV with no wagon counterpart. It's not based on a wagon... it is designed as a CUV from the ground up. It shares a platform with Legacy sedan just like Edge shares the platform with Fusion. Subaru hasn't sold a Legacy wagon in almost 10 years. Ford is not trying to sell a wagon. It is trying to meet the growing CUV market with different permutation of bodystyles. CUV is going to become like cars... there is going to be fastback ones, squareback ones, longish one that seats extra people, and even coupe ones. All depends on how you you want to spilt hairs Just using height as a measurement 63 inches for the Crosstek 66 for the Outback 68 for the Edge 63 for the Mustang Mach E 58 for the Buick Crosstour Id expect the Fusion “wagon” not to be as tall as the Edge, but not as “chunky” like a CUV would be, but also “tough” looking. A harder/larger Focus Active. IMO going the CUV fastback Route is going to windup like Acura ZDX Route- not a good thing Edited January 28, 2020 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 A lot of that is marketing but also customer buying trends have changed so much that the time is probably right to release crossovers as near cars but with the same utility as a stationwagon, the aero of a car and increased ride height that a lot of buyers now value over increased handling/ road holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I read on Automotive news that 80 percent of the sales in the market will be light trucks and suvs so you’re right about the buying trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 16 hours ago, bzcat said: Outback is not a wagon though. It is a conventional 5 seat midsize CUV with no wagon counterpart. It's not based on a wagon... it is designed as a CUV from the ground up. It shares a platform with Legacy sedan just like Edge shares the platform with Fusion. Subaru hasn't sold a Legacy wagon in almost 10 years. Ford is not trying to sell a wagon. It is trying to meet the growing CUV market with different permutation of bodystyles. CUV is going to become like cars... there is going to be fastback ones, squareback ones, longish one that seats extra people, and even coupe ones. You realize the Outback is just a lifted Legacy right? The front ends (aside from lower bumper treatment) are identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: I read on Automotive news that 80 percent of the sales in the market will be light trucks and suvs so you’re right about the buying trends. They had some analyst on Autoline After Hours last Thursday. His company expects car sales to bottom out at about 20% of the market by 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 6 hours ago, mackinaw said: They had some analyst on Autoline After Hours last Thursday. His company expects car sales to bottom out at about 20% of the market by 2022. Well all the growth is elsewhere in utilities and trucks, add crossovers to the non-car mix and it’s checkmate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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