Ford and GM's plans for Electric Pickups

[joe77]

Hello everyone,,

 

Very interesting article on Automotive News about electric pickup trucks.  One thing I noticed, nobody has a clue if anybody will buy them. 

 

For instance:

"Beau Boeckmann, president of Galpin Ford in the Los Angeles area and one of the largest U.S. Ford dealers, said customers are already asking about the truck.

"We're going to be shocked," he said. "I think the electric pickup truck has a huge future."

 

Not everyone is so sanguine. Industry tracking firm IHS Markit has estimated the entire full-size electric truck segment will account for fewer than 30,000 sales in 2026, compared with an expected 2.3 million sales overall."

 

"Detroit's other big automaker, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, has no current plans for an all-electric Ram, while Toyota Motor Corp. is betting more heavily on a hybrid Tundra pickup.

"The sliver of volume that's going to be electric pickups is not worthy of a business case," said one person familiar with Toyota's plans.

https://aud.mconvert.net/usd

"This is going to be a real watershed for the whole industry," Ford Chairman Bill Ford told Reuters in a recent interview. The automaker has disclosed few details about the electric F-series, but Bill Ford hinted the truck could have load-carrying space under https://check-distance.com/route/savannah-ga/jacksonville-fl the hood in addition to the traditional bed in the back.  "You pick up all that extra space where the engine compartment has been," Ford said. An electric F-Series could be a work truck -- with its batteries functioning as a job site power source, he said. And it could be positioned as a high-performance vehicle next to the gas-fueled, 450 horsepower Raptor pickup truck.

 

No subscription required, so the article should be available for all.

Edited January 31, 2020 by joe77

[rperez817]

39 minutes ago, joe77 said:

"We're going to be shocked,"

 

Nice pun ?

[rmc523]

The concern about a switchover is why Ford is going to offer all three/four variants - ICE, hybrid (and presumably PHEV?) and BEV.

 

I think you could see BEV take over the top end of the market, and maybe some of the bottom end when costs come under control (BEVs could work for fleets where trucks are on a limited-range route or jobsite thing and return to a central location to charge, but the cost is prohibitive right now).

[twintornados]

You will see fleet sales of F150 EV to such places as mining operations, airports, etc...as they are what is considered "closed loop" where the "refueling" needs are a constant. Individual sales to consumers will be lower as EV is still sporadic in the heartland....

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

You will see fleet sales of F150 EV to such places as mining operations, airports, etc...as they are what is considered "closed loop" where the "refueling" needs are a constant. Individual sales to consumers will be lower as EV is still sporadic in the heartland....

 

Yup, that's why I said we could see EV capturing the top end of the market (your Platinum/Limited models which aren't used for work as much/can absorb the cost hit).

[akirby]

I still think a 300 mile range (unloaded) BEV F150 with home charging will work for the majority of current F150 buyers with the exception being folks who regularly drive more than 300 miles per day or who tow or carry heavy loads on long distances or where they use the truck as the family hauler on long trips.

[HotRunrGuy]

37 minutes ago, akirby said:

I still think a 300 mile range (unloaded) BEV F150 with home charging will work for the majority of current F150 buyers with the exception being folks who regularly drive more than 300 miles per day or who tow or carry heavy loads on long distances or where they use the truck as the family hauler on long trips.

 

So the $64,000 question is, will YOU replace your current F150 for a BEV one?

 

HRG

[akirby]

3 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

So the $64,000 question is, will YOU replace your current F150 for a BEV one?

 

HRG

 

If I was going to buy a new truck, absolutely.  I rarely drive more than 50 miles per day and anything I'm hauling is usually within 30 miles or so.   And we don't normally take my truck out of town.

[jpd80]

Bigger vehicles require bigger batteries and bigger motors, I wonder if that $64k figure is not far from the truth.,....

[akirby]

18 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Bigger vehicles require bigger batteries and bigger motors, I wonder if that $64k figure is not far from the truth.,....

 

At least, maybe more.

[lfeg]

34 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

So the $64,000 question is, will YOU replace your current F150 for a BEV one?

 

HRG

Odds are that it will be more than a $64,000 question. For me it would only work if the range and recharge times are comparable to gas fueled, otherwise it would not work for my 350 to 700 mile per day trips.

 

[jpd80]

One thing for sure about Ford is that they're not afraid to ask premium prices for desirable vehicles

because they know that at least some will pay the price and even more will it they're leased.

Ford already has a $100k F Truck so the upper limit has already been reset.

Edited January 30, 2020 by jpd80

[akirby]

34 minutes ago, lfeg said:

Odds are that it will be more than a $64,000 question. For me it would only work if the range and recharge times are comparable to gas fueled, otherwise it would not work for my 350 to 700 mile per day trips.

 

 

You would definitely not be the target buyer for an EV.

[jpd80]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

You would definitely not be the target buyer for an EV.

Correct, Ford builds vehicles that are useful to buyers in a certain range, a hybrid is probably more appropriate

for longer journeys over a BEV or maybe even a diesel..,

 

[fordmantpw]

PHEV F350 with a 7.3L next, please.

[AGR]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:51 PM, akirby said:

I still think a 300 mile range (unloaded) BEV F150 with home charging will work for the majority of current F150 buyers with the exception being folks who regularly drive more than 300 miles per day or who tow or carry heavy loads on long distances or where they use the truck as the family hauler on long trips.

 

I think that EV pickups sales will be greater than the skeptical experts and many here surmise.  The surprise is that there will be more rural sales than they think. Someone posted this on a forum, not sure which, but it makes sense. There's many people living on farms and in small towns that don't have gas stations, and the nearest one is in the county seat 10-15(or more) miles away. So a trip to just get gas is 20-30 miles round trip. Of course most people aren't going to drive that far to just get gas, but that's one less thing to worry about.

Edited February 2, 2020 by AGR

[mackinaw]

28 minutes ago, AGR said:

I think that EV pickups sales will be greater than the skeptical experts and many here surmise.  The surprise is that there will be more rural sales than they think. Someone posted this on a forum, not sure which, but it makes sense. 

 

I live in a rural area.  Two of my "neighbors," (about 1/4 mile from my house) are contractors (build homes).  I know several loggers and a guy who raises steers.  I've talked about BEV pickups with them and they all have no interest.  My firewood guy (who drives a F-550 dump truck) which carries five face cords of firewood (weighing over 6,000 pounds), laughs at the idea of owning a BEV truck.   

 

Rural areas are conservative.  They'll be the last to buy BEV pickups.

[T-dubz]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:51 PM, akirby said:

I still think a 300 mile range (unloaded) BEV F150 with home charging will work for the majority of current F150 buyers with the exception being folks who regularly drive more than 300 miles per day or who tow or carry heavy loads on long distances or where they use the truck as the family hauler on long trips.

I think the one thing that people are overlooking with electric full size trucks is charging. Most trucks are supercrews and they don’t fit in your garage. How are you going to charge it?  Install the charger outside? Run the cables under your garage door? Neither of those would be ideal. An electric Ranger on the other hand would be perfect.

[silvrsvt]

11 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

laughs at the idea of owning a BEV truck.   

 

Rural areas are conservative.  They'll be the last to buy BEV pickups.

 

What it boils down to is BEVs have a negative viewpoint because people think the batteries are like cell phone batteries, where after a few years they are basically useless or think BEVs are underpowered "golf carts"

 

Some seat time in a modem BEV would go a long way in fixing that.  

[mackinaw]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Some seat time in a modem BEV would go a long way in fixing that.  

 

It's more than seat time.  Look at it from a contractor's point of view.  My firewood guy moves 1,000 firewood cords/year.  He travels about a 30 mile radius from his farm.  His old, beater F-550 can carry five firewood cords of hardwood, or about 6,000 pounds of wood.  He's even carrying more weight, when you factor in the weight of the vehicle.  I honestly don't know what the range of a BEV truck would be that is carrying that much weight.  I suspect it's less than a ICE pickup. Factor in battery charge time vs. gas/diesel fuel fill-up time, and the fact that he buys his trucks used to save money.....well, there's little incentive for him to buy a BEV truck. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

10 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

It's more than seat time.  Look at it from a contractor's point of view.  My firewood guy moves 1,000 firewood cords/year.  He travels about a 30 mile radius from his farm.  His old, beater F-550 can carry five firewood cords of hardwood, or about 6,000 pounds of wood.  He's even carrying more weight, when you factor in the weight of the vehicle.  I honestly don't know what the range of a BEV truck would be that is carrying that much weight.  I suspect it's less than a ICE pickup. Factor in battery charge time vs. gas/diesel fuel fill-up time, and the fact that he buys his trucks used to save money.....well, there's little incentive for him to buy a BEV truck. 

Those types of buyers are not the target market for a BEV truck. They won't be any time soon with today's technology, if ever. 

[AGR]

4 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

I live in a rural area.  Two of my "neighbors," (about 1/4 mile from my house) are contractors (build homes).  I know several loggers and a guy who raises steers.  I've talked about BEV pickups with them and they all have no interest.  My firewood guy (who drives a F-550 dump truck) which carries five face cords of firewood (weighing over 6,000 pounds), laughs at the idea of owning a BEV truck.   

 

Rural areas are conservative.  They'll be the last to buy BEV pickups.

 

That's the same old story from you. Newsflash: Northern Michigan is not representative of the country as a whole, in just about every measure.

And not everyone who is pro-EV or expresses favorable sentiments towards them is a greenie or a leftist, starting with myself.

[Gurgeh]

35 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

It's more than seat time.  Look at it from a contractor's point of view.  My firewood guy moves 1,000 firewood cords/year.  He travels about a 30 mile radius from his farm.  His old, beater F-550 can carry five firewood cords of hardwood, or about 6,000 pounds of wood.  He's even carrying more weight, when you factor in the weight of the vehicle.  I honestly don't know what the range of a BEV truck would be that is carrying that much weight.  I suspect it's less than a ICE pickup. Factor in battery charge time vs. gas/diesel fuel fill-up time, and the fact that he buys his trucks used to save money.....well, there's little incentive for him to buy a BEV truck. 

 

Hence akirby's observation below. The upcoming generation of BEV pickups, while perfectly suitable (and in many cases preferable) for a large number of current buyers, would not work well for your neighbor. And that's just fine.

 

On 1/30/2020 at 2:51 PM, akirby said:

I still think a 300 mile range (unloaded) BEV F150 with home charging will work for the majority of current F150 buyers with the exception being folks who regularly drive more than 300 miles per day or who tow or carry heavy loads on long distances or where they use the truck as the family hauler on long trips.

 

[jpd80]

At the moment there no BEV or hybrid trucks for buyers to consider, a lot of the perception change comes when

these new vehicles arrive and buyers work out if the presented products work to them, not some imaginary product.

Mike all electrification of vehicles, City folk will take it up first and then people further out.

[mackinaw]

On 2/2/2020 at 4:39 PM, Gurgeh said:

Hence akirby's observation below. The upcoming generation of BEV pickups, while perfectly suitable (and in many cases preferable) for a large number of current buyers, would not work well for your neighbor. And that's just fine.

 

I absolutely agree.  It was suggested that rural folks will readily embrace a BEV pickup, and that once they drive one, they'll love it.  I pointed a real case scenario involving somebody I know who has absolutely no use for a BEV pickup. It just doesn't make financial sense to him to own one.  And there are a lot of people like that out there too.  Maybe in 20 years my firewood guy consider a used, beater BEV F-550, but for now, it's ICE all the way.  

 

Sidenote:  This is definitely a rural vs. urban thing too.  I spent the first 25 years of my life in metro-Detroit, and the last several decades in rural northern Michigan.  There's a huge cultural difference between the two areas.