MY93SHO Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaulTransport Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I've been waiting for this new engine to be in a class C motor home before purchasing. Think they will be a year behind the current production year? Probably 2021 model year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 You know, that was just silly, but I enjoyed the heck out of watching it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) I like how they demonstrated the difference the bigger stabiliser bars make, more power from the 7.3 was expected but Andre strapped into a stripped chassis with a role cage was a surprise. LOL at him saying the back end moved around at speed, I bet that was a little scarry. Edited February 8, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Why are the F53/F59 still using the 6 speed ? Build out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, theoldwizard said: Why are the F53/F59 still using the 6 speed ? Build out ? It looks like all of the stripped chassis models are sticking with the 6-speed, while all of the other '20/'21 models get the 10-speed (Ford currently only shows the '19 models of the E-Series and F-650/750 on their Web site, and they all still have the 6-speed). My guess is either that they're capacity constrained or the upfitters aren't ready for the ten-speed. The latter seems more likely, as the stripped chassis models can't be that much of a percentage of SuperDuty production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, SoonerLS said: It looks like all of the stripped chassis models are sticking with the 6-speed, while all of the other '20/'21 models get the 10-speed (Ford currently only shows the '19 models of the E-Series and F-650/750 on their Web site, and they all still have the 6-speed). My guess is either that they're capacity constrained or the upfitters aren't ready for the ten-speed. The latter seems more likely, as the stripped chassis models can't be that much of a percentage of SuperDuty production. Stripped chassis production is roughly 2,000 units per months combined I think they're set up like the Medium Dutys, maybe same engine/Trans. Edited February 8, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 55 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Stripped chassis production is roughly 2,000 units per months combined I think they're set up like the Medium Dutys, maybe same engine/Trans. It looks like they use the same transmissions as the F-650/750 (the 650 and 750 are still listed as '19s with V10 gassers, though I'm assuming they will get the 7.3). The frame looks different in the shots I saw, with the E-Series stripped chassis available in longer wheelbases (up to 176"), and the F53 and F59 use a ladder frame that looks like the Transit's. (Or am I missing your meaning?) I guess using the 6-speed in the stripped chassis could be helping add volume for the 650/750's powertrain, but they also make SuperDuties at OHAP, so it wouldn't be that much of a savings from a logistical standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, SoonerLS said: It looks like they use the same transmissions as the F-650/750 (the 650 and 750 are still listed as '19s with V10 gassers, though I'm assuming they will get the 7.3). The frame looks different in the shots I saw, with the E-Series stripped chassis available in longer wheelbases (up to 176"), and the F53 and F59 use a ladder frame that looks like the Transit's. (Or am I missing your meaning?) I guess using the 6-speed in the stripped chassis could be helping add volume for the 650/750's powertrain, but they also make SuperDuties at OHAP, so it wouldn't be that much of a savings from a logistical standpoint. They said that the only change to either frame was the new Engine and stiffer stabiliser bars The 7.3 arrives in MD later in the year, I was assuming that the change in striped chassis Would happen about the same time. i think ford just wants a bit more return in the 6AT while 10R140 production ramps up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, jpd80 said: The 7.3 arrives in MD later in the year, I was assuming that the change in striped chassis Would happen about the same time. i think ford just wants a bit more return in the 6AT while 10R140 production ramps up. The stripped chassis models are list as '20 models (F53/F59) or '21 models (E-350/E-450), so they may still be later in the year. Wanting more return on the 6R makes as much sense as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 32 minutes ago, SoonerLS said: The stripped chassis models are list as '20 models (F53/F59) or '21 models (E-350/E-450), so they may still be later in the year. Wanting more return on the 6R makes as much sense as anything. Least number of changes on an existing production line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 6 hours ago, jpd80 said: Least number of changes on an existing production line? Possibly, but in the TFL video, they said they were significantly re-engineering the F53 to accommodate the motorhome manufacturers' needs (they specifically noted accommodating the higher centers of gravity on newer motorhomes). How much of that translates to the assembly line, I dunno, but it leads to another thought--it could also have been that they stuck with the 6R because they didn't want to lose any of their budget to the 10R development program at this stage. (That's just a wild guess; I don't know if they even charge back shared component development costs to the vehicle programs like that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, SoonerLS said: Possibly, but in the TFL video, they said they were significantly re-engineering the F53 to accommodate the motorhome manufacturers' needs (they specifically noted accommodating the higher centers of gravity on newer motorhomes). How much of that translates to the assembly line, I dunno, but it leads to another thought--it could also have been that they stuck with the 6R because they didn't want to lose any of their budget to the 10R development program at this stage. (That's just a wild guess; I don't know if they even charge back shared component development costs to the vehicle programs like that.) Check the video at 2:40 the chassis upgrades are limited to larger anti-roll bars, new spring rates and different bump stops. Agree with your thoughts regarding 6R, not changing to 10R contains costs and restricts changes to the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) At 3:42, notice that the rear shocks (which previously been stated as "new") have a Sachs label on them. Sachs is know in the suspension world as the manufacturer of Nivomat shocks and struts which have a built-in self leveling functionality. This must help a lot with body roll. Edited February 10, 2020 by theoldwizard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Ford should offer a galvanized chassis option on the Super Duty, even if it is expensive. Aluminum body doesn't mean too much corrosion-wise if the frame rots out! I'll bet customers in the rust belt would pay a lot for that option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Ford should offer a galvanized chassis option on the Super Duty, even if it is expensive. Aluminum body doesn't mean too much corrosion-wise if the frame rots out! I'll bet customers in the rust belt would pay a lot for that option. I noticed that too....would make for one heck of a corrosion resistant beast for sure. Could the fact that it is an open C channel frame have anything to do with it? How hard would it be to galvanize a boxed frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Don't they dip the chassis in something called "e-coating" at the factory? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 E coating is just a paint that is applied in an electrically charged dip tank. Where I am at it starts to degrade after about 3 years due to deicers and such used on the roads. Hot dipped galvanized is the best, followed by electrogalvanizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 lfeg is right, 'E-coat' is a process, not a product. Ford is using that process to apply plain old black paint, nothing special about it. That's why they rust so fast. GM uses a hot dip wax frame coating that does protect against corrosion better than paint, but it's easily damaged and needs to be reapplied periodically. Messy too. Hot dip galvanizing would be substantially better than anything else, and it is possible to galvanize tubular structures like boxed frame rails. They just have to be vented to let air out during the process, which also has to be done with E-coat. Even if Ford had to charge $2500 for the option, that's still less than 5% of the cost of the average new Super Duty. Why wouldn't a Super Duty buyer in the rust belt want that? How your talking about a truck that would easily last 20 years in the harshest conditions. Thank UPS, they got tired of junking 'package cars' due to rusted out frames, and pushed their chassis vendors to galvanize them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 My understanding is the 7.3L gas engine will debut in the 2021 F-650 and 750. There is no 2020 MY for these trucks, and 2021 production is scheduled for early March 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: My understanding is the 7.3L gas engine will debut in the 2021 F-650 and 750. There is no 2020 MY for these trucks, and 2021 production is scheduled for early March 2020. I think that must be correct--Ford currently only lists '19 models for the F-650/750 and E-Series Cutaway (which all still show the V10 as the gasser), although they show the F53/F59 (and the other F-Series models) as '20 model years and the E-350/450 DRW stripped chassis as '21 model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 16 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: My understanding is the 7.3L gas engine will debut in the 2021 F-650 and 750. There is no 2020 MY for these trucks, and 2021 production is scheduled for early March 2020. Same for E-Series... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 3:25 AM, 7Mary3 said: lfeg is right, 'E-coat' is a process, not a product. Ford is using that process to apply plain old black paint, nothing special about it. That's why they rust so fast. GM uses a hot dip wax frame coating that does protect against corrosion better than paint, but it's easily damaged and needs to be reapplied periodically. Messy too. Hot dip galvanizing would be substantially better than anything else, and it is possible to galvanize tubular structures like boxed frame rails. They just have to be vented to let air out during the process, which also has to be done with E-coat. Even if Ford had to charge $2500 for the option, that's still less than 5% of the cost of the average new Super Duty. Why wouldn't a Super Duty buyer in the rust belt want that? How your talking about a truck that would easily last 20 years in the harshest conditions. Thank UPS, they got tired of junking 'package cars' due to rusted out frames, and pushed their chassis vendors to galvanize them. You can get nasty cracking on galvanised parts subject to constant flexing. What a lot of people don’t know is that if the acid gets left in behind fillet welds it can start cracking from inside out. we had a major issue with that when a lot of our larger road signage went away from blast and paint to hot dip gal, lots of potential unexpected failures. The only way to avoid is seal everything up ( not possible or desirable with hot dip gal) or make every weld full penetration with nowhere for the acid to hang, both are very costly options but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 53 minutes ago, jpd80 said: You can get nasty cracking on galvanised parts subject to constant flexing. What a lot of people don’t know is that if the acid gets left in behind fillet welds it can start cracking from inside out. we had a major issue with that when a lot of our larger road signage went away from blast and paint to hot dip gal, lots of potential unexpected failures. The only way to avoid is seal everything up ( not possible or desirable with hot dip gal) or make every weld full penetration with nowhere for the acid to hang, both are very costly options but not impossible. Good point, the C-channel F59 chassis is probably all bolt/rivet construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Good point, the C-channel F59 chassis is probably all bolt/rivet construction. F59's frame uses "e-coat," per Ford's Web site, but its frame looks to be relatively simple straight C-channel, with everything bolted together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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