akirby Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I don't see Hackett leaving right now - he needs another couple of years to get these projects out the door and finish the transformations he started within the company. The last thing Ford needs is a change in leadership and direction. 24 months sounds right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 He played "you bet your job" - and lost. Hopefully this is a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: **cue Peter de Lorenzo's doom and gloom Ford article rehashing his absolute hatred for Jim Farley in 3-2-1......... I read your post, logged on to DeLorenzo's site, and surprise, surprise, this was posted at 3 p.m. today: http://www.autoextremist.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 They need existing products to appeal and thats where ford needs to focus...new product is not going to suddenly float the ship..they need to get the holes plugged in what they have now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, grbeck said: I read your post, logged on to DeLorenzo's site, and surprise, surprise, this was posted at 3 p.m. today: http://www.autoextremist.com/ So predictable. Secretly, PD loves that Farley is the heir-apparent. DeLorenzo needs a new Sergio, somebody to constantly demonize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, grbeck said: I read your post, logged on to DeLorenzo's site, and surprise, surprise, this was posted at 3 p.m. today: http://www.autoextremist.com/ Haha, like I said! I was only 20 mins off ? I'd like to see Galhotra move up too - I liked him at Lincoln. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Although the end 2019 numbers weren't pretty, they're not all that surprising with much of the year skating by on old product until the new Explorer/Escape rolled out. The Explorer launch problems obviously didn't help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) So as the VP in charge of production, how many dud launches did Joe Hinrichs precide over. If we go back and look, there were plenty of them, maybe not all his fault but you have to Show the brass that whatever is causing those poor launches has been corrected and prevented. If the same kind of issues keep recurring then maybe that person is not effectively managing subordinates, he may not be directly the cause of them but he's still responsible. Joe Hinrichs is probably a nice guy but Ford is going in a different direction, away from him. I would take with a grain of salt what's said in public, there's no better example of that than Jac Nasser's departure, the language did not match what went on behind the scenes. Edited February 7, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-mustang-mach-e-bronco-launch/ Motor Trend did an interview with Hau Thai Tang "We're in the midst of the biggest product refresh in our history," Thai-Tang said in an exclusive interview with MotorTrend after news broke of his promotion. By 2022, everything Ford sells will have been refreshed. "It's a great opportunity," Thai-Tang said. "I'm looking forward to pulling the team together." He said he will spend some time thinking about how to accelerate the progress of transforming the company, a mandate from CEO Jim Hackett that has taken on additional urgency in the wake of a poor financial performance in the fourth quarter. Much of the hit came from a poor launch of the new Ford Explorer and Lincoln Aviator at the Chicago Assembly Plant. Thai-Tang is confident the key vehicles ahead will not stumble out of the gate. Essentially, Ford bit off more than it could chew with the Explorer launch, he tells us. Chicago is one of the oldest plants with little physical space, which limited the ability to set up a pilot area to test assembly of the new vehicle. The plant had to switch from making a front-wheel-drive SUV to models riding on a new rear-wheel-drive architecture. All the sheetmetal was changed. Powertrains are also more complex, with the addition of hybrid and plug-in-hybrid variants. To further complicate things, in addition to the Explorer and the Police Interceptor utility vehicle, the plant concurrently launched the new Lincoln Aviator. And all this was done while maximizing production of the outgoing Explorer. "Explorer was an anomaly," Thai-Tang said, noting launches of the Ford Super Duty, Escape, Lincoln Corsair, and the Kuga in Europe went as planned. Explorer is not a reflection of Ford's performance, he says. But lessons learned will be applied to the upcoming launches and much effort will go into "de-risking." No more multiple launches or concurrent assembly, for example. The Mach-E will be built at the Cuautitlan plant in Mexico that is not currently building anything, having ceased Fiesta production there. Champions within the company have been assigned to work with key suppliers. Turnaround time will include more time to train plant employees, and the key launches are also staggered and more validation is being done, we're told. Under Hackett, employees have been challenged to start small with pilot projects and then expand them. An example is the Mach-E, which has completed its pilot phase as the first vehicle from a new electric architecture and is moving to the next stage: mass production for sale to customers. Thai-Tang says the "start small" approach has allowed them to break free of the status quo and bring new products with more tech to market faster. Then it can be scaled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Nothing in there adresses the problem with current product... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, snooter said: Nothing in there adresses the problem with current product... Yes sir snooter, you are correct. ice-capades mentioned in the Ford profit plunge thread that Ford Zone Managers showed dealers an updated interior design for 2020 Explorer XLT models with black interiors. The description suggests a nicer design for sure. Don't know if material quality and fit & finish are improved also. Anyway, Ford may apply small emergency refreshes to current products in the next year or so. Edited February 7, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Same play, different day. If management new they had problems with the Explorer launch why did they let it happen. All this does is piss of the customer, bring more bad press to the company and they are all right with this? Haste makes waste, and this is just another example of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Under Hackett, employees have been challenged to start small with pilot projects and then expand them. An example is the Mach-E, which has completed its pilot phase as the first vehicle from a new electric architecture and is moving to the next stage: mass production for sale to customers. Thai-Tang says the "start small" approach has allowed them to break free of the status quo and bring new products with more tech to market faster. Then it can be scaled up. This is nothing new. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Jim Hackett's plans are now a dumpster fire, the only way he can get 10% return is to kill a lot of Ford's production, he is sweating on Mexico being Ford's salvation and maybe it will be but I have a feeling that the three pillars of Jim Hackett's plans for Ford's future may be "dry wells" that require ongoing funding. Mobility is a giant loss maker, Autonomous Vehicles have referred to commercial applications, BEVs are being marketed as a lifestyle choice with a high premium attached, that is both self limiting and a defensive play. So once all the money is spent on electrification, the only BEVs are MME, Mid-sized crossovers, BEV F150, and Rivkah based SUV, all way more expensive than MME. Sorry, I just see Ford as it's always been relying on F Series and full sized SUVs to bring in the cash and everything else barely covering development and manufacturing costs. The BEVs will be there but don't expect them to add much to the bottom line. It is my understanding that Hackett's plans originated as a wish list that Bill Ford want Fields to execute so that's why Hackett will not be moved on by the board, Bill Ford wants this but it makes no business sense today........ Edited February 8, 2020 by jpd80 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 hours ago, coupe3w said: This is nothing new. It is completely new at Ford and many other companies. It’s called agile development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 3 hours ago, coupe3w said: Same play, different day. If management new they had problems with the Explorer launch why did they let it happen. All this does is piss of the customer, bring more bad press to the company and they are all right with this? Haste makes waste, and this is just another example of it. Hinrichs convinced them he had a plan that would work and then it didn’t. I’m sure the success of the f150 retooling gave them a lot of confidence and they didn’t realize the differences and new challenges. HTT says they won’t make that mistake again and Hinrichs firing should make it clear to all who follow that it won’t be tolerated. What else can they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Sorry, I just see Ford as it's always been relying on F Series and full sized SUVs to bring in the cash and everything else barely covering development and manufacturing costs. The BEVs will be there but don't expect them to add much to the bottom line. It is my understanding that Hackett's plans originated as a wish list that Bill Ford want Fields to execute so that's why Hackett will not be moved on by the board, Bill Ford wants this but it makes no business sense today........ No "wish list." From what I can piece together, Bill's main directive to Hackett was to "commit to and win" segments. It's true that Bill and Hackett both have been pushing for an aggressive rethinking of the way that processes play out, but the *astounding* product cadence we're coming in to will be what history remembers of Jim's work. "Commit to and win." I'm beyond happy with what we have coming. The Fields debacle could have been disastrous, and it was Jim's leadership that brought that back from the brink. It hasn't been perfect, but I can't imagine who could have done it better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said: No "wish list." From what I can piece together, Bill's main directive to Hackett was to "commit to and win" segments. It's true that Bill and Hackett both have been pushing for an aggressive rethinking of the way that processes play out, but the *astounding* product cadence we're coming in to will be what history remembers of Jim's work. "Commit to and win." I'm beyond happy with what we have coming. The Fields debacle could have been disastrous, and it was Jim's leadership that brought that back from the brink. It hasn't been perfect, but I can't imagine who could have done it better. Maybe someone less enamoured with mobility and connectivity, the equivalent of betamax in engineering terms. There is no doubt about Ford's financial commitment to new technologies, it's their inability to match competitors that weighs heavily on my mind, I have no problems with all products that have or will arrive up to year's end as they were started under Fields, but Hackett will claim them as his own (changing C-Max to MME was right move). The biggest concern is that Ford is quite happy to continue pushing the conversation to the right with more and more expensive Ford vehicles with even higher priced Lincoln's above them. The critical mistake here is testing the patience of Ford's buyers, some will pay any price but equally, many buyers will reach a price threshold which they will not pass and sadly, Jim Hackett, Bill Ford and all the rest don't see it coming, there is no contingency with "Commit to and Win", there's no coming back financially if you're wrong Edited February 8, 2020 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Sorry to be such a Downard here but I think ordinary buyers are being lost in Jim Hackett's plans The EV C-Max for one could have just as easily morphed into several C2 based products that arguably reach more Ford and Lincoln buyers today than in three or four years time. Imagine having BEV Escape/ Corsair and Edge/ Nautilus by year's end instead of just MME. These guys have such a narrow focus on high end buyers that they're missing everyday opportunity Either that or their BEVs are just too damned expensive to mass produce. Edited February 8, 2020 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) And again, who exactly is going to buy all these EVs? Obviously you can't ignore the segment, but EV sales history to date does not give me confidence that I should bet the company's future on EVs. They've been "the future that's going to take over next year" for the last 10 years. Yes invest in them enough that you're not caught flat footed if they do eventually take off, but by all means keep pumping resources and talent into ICE programs because that's what's going to pay the bills and dividends for the next several CEO cycles. Edited February 8, 2020 by Sevensecondsuv 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 8 hours ago, akirby said: Different plants. Even though the whole plant was retooled and the body changed to aluminum, the basic platform wasn't changed much. But probably the biggest difference is they had two plants so production continued at one plant while the other one was retooled and vice versa. So they could take a little extra time if needed. By contrast once they started the conversion Explorer production was 0 so there was far more pressure to get it up and running quickly. Well I would agree that when the change to the aluminum 150 took place there was the benefit of having a phased approach between two plants. But I would think the issues associated with assembling a vehicle with aluminum components, as well as never before used adhesives and fasteners, made it a difficult task. And it was successful-was it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Well I would agree that when the change to the aluminum 150 took place there was the benefit of having a phased approach between two plants. But I would think the issues associated with assembling a vehicle with aluminum components, as well as never before used adhesives and fasteners, made it a difficult task. And it was successful-was it not? It was actually quicker and less labor intense because some sub assembly was possible at the stamping plant prior to delivery at Dearborn There was also word that things were delayed until the tooling prove outs were successful and could be repeated at speed without flaws. Edited February 8, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickp Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I just think it’s funny that most of the doubters think Ford’s solution was to keep making sedans. When was the last time Ford generated a significant amount of profit from a sedan? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Nickp said: I just think it’s funny that most of the doubters think Ford’s solution was to keep making sedans. When was the last time Ford generated a significant amount of profit from a sedan? I think we need to remember that Fords pre-expense sales have gone up like 4 years in a row. ROW losses combined with rebuilding is what hurt, plus the slow explorer launch, and warranty costs were the big killers. While I still worry about ford sacrificing too many low-end sales, that's still a comforting fact. If ford can balance out focus/fusian sales by selling more of these upcoming utilities, i think we'll be in good shape. Bronco might even bring in some new customers. Edited February 8, 2020 by probowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/ford-top-automotive-executive-retires-in-managem Farley is the new CEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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