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Considering buying some Ford Stock


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14 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

Have 110 shares at 5.74 average price paid. Not a bad return so far. Bought mostly for X plan and hoping the dividend comes back. Much better returns on other stocks and crypto, but... not bad.

 

In the past 52 weeks, F price performance has been pretty good, up 147% which is about the same as the automotive industry average. Among the Big 3 U.S. automakers, F did a little better than GM (up 134%) and a little worse than TSLA (up 181%).

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On 7/5/2021 at 11:23 PM, rmc523 said:

Yeah, it'd be nice to see the dividend return.

While it would be nice to see the dividend return (and that, by itself, likely would boost the value of Ford stock at least a little), right now, I think I would prefer Ford forego resuming paying a dividend and, instead, put that money into a focused, rigorous effort to improve the quality/reliability of the Ford and Lincoln products currently being produced (including Sync system software updates that, at times, have been "buggy").  

 

Make no mistake, I, too, would like to see the dividend return, but I think the long-term interests of Ford Motor Company would be served better by improving Ford's somewhat-shaky reputation for quality/reliability.

Edited by 1984Poke
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  • 2 months later...

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/28/ford-ceo-theres-tremendous-upside-in-the-automakers-stock.html

 

Ford CEO Farley says automaker's stock has 'tremendous upside' even after doubling in his first year

 

"DETROIT – Ford Motor's stock price has more than doubled since Jim Farley became CEO a little less than a year ago, and yet he says the shares 'absolutely' have more room to run as he begins to lay the groundwork for a massive turnaround plan.

 

" 'There's a growing confidence that Ford will be one of the winners in this new digital transformation in the industry,' he told CNBC during a phone interview Monday shortly before the company announced plans to invest $11.4 billion in U.S. production of electric batteries and vehicles. 'We have a lot of incredible upside.' 

 

"Shares of the automaker closed Monday up by 2.8% to $14.16 a share, a 113% increase since Farley became CEO on Oct. 1. The stock was up by about 4% during premarket trading Tuesday..."

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8 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/28/ford-ceo-theres-tremendous-upside-in-the-automakers-stock.html

 

Ford CEO Farley says automaker's stock has 'tremendous upside' even after doubling in his first year

 

"DETROIT – Ford Motor's stock price has more than doubled since Jim Farley became CEO a little less than a year ago, and yet he says the shares 'absolutely' have more room to run as he begins to lay the groundwork for a massive turnaround plan.

 

" 'There's a growing confidence that Ford will be one of the winners in this new digital transformation in the industry,' he told CNBC during a phone interview Monday shortly before the company announced plans to invest $11.4 billion in U.S. production of electric batteries and vehicles. 'We have a lot of incredible upside.' 

 

"Shares of the automaker closed Monday up by 2.8% to $14.16 a share, a 113% increase since Farley became CEO on Oct. 1. The stock was up by about 4% during premarket trading Tuesday..."

 

I wonder if/when they'll reinstate the dividend.

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9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I wonder if/when they'll reinstate the dividend.

 

With the stock doubling in the past year, and probably even going higher in the months to come, pressure to restore the dividend has probably decreased.  My guess (which is worth nothing) is that they'll resume the dividend sometime next year, when the current chip situation has sorted itself out, and production gets back to something resembling normal.

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Again, while I'd like to see a return to dividends as much as the next investor, I'd rather Ford delay spending to reinstate a dividend for a bit and, instead, do a "full court press" on investing in improving reliability of its current (and future) lineup of Ford and Lincoln vehicles.

 

I'm on my 5th consecutive Lincoln (and before that a Ford Explorer and before that a Mercury Sable), all bought or leased new, and it's more than a little disappointing to see the very poor ratings Ford and Lincoln are getting for the reliability of its current crop of vehicles.

 

It's enough to make me, a long-time Ford and Lincoln customer, start looking at other makes (at present, Lexus and maybe Cadillac; something that, in the past, I never would have considered) for my next vehicle.  I don't want to leave Lincoln but I am not interested in buying something that is currently earning a reputation as "not reliable."

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1 hour ago, 1984Poke said:

Again, while I'd like to see a return to dividends as much as the next investor, I'd rather Ford delay spending to reinstate a dividend for a bit and, instead, do a "full court press" on investing in improving reliability of its current (and future) lineup of Ford and Lincoln vehicles.

 

I'm on my 5th consecutive Lincoln (and before that a Ford Explorer and before that a Mercury Sable), all bought or leased new, and it's more than a little disappointing to see the very poor ratings Ford and Lincoln are getting for the reliability of its current crop of vehicles.

 

It's enough to make me, a long-time Ford and Lincoln customer, start looking at other makes (at present, Lexus and maybe Cadillac; something that, in the past, I never would have considered) for my next vehicle.  I don't want to leave Lincoln but I am not interested in buying something that is currently earning a reputation as "not reliable."


Have you had problems with your Lincolns?   By your statements it doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like you just read something about them being “not reliable.”

 

So if I have this right - you’re going to switch to another brand when you’ve had no issues and presumably enjoyed the product (I assume you have if you’ve bought 5 consecutively) because some report said you might statistically have 1.something problems instead of 1 problem per 100 vehicles?

 

I’m not understanding that logic.

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On 9/29/2021 at 4:39 PM, rmc523 said:


Have you had problems with your Lincolns?   By your statements it doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like you just read something about them being “not reliable.”

 

So if I have this right - you’re going to switch to another brand when you’ve had no issues and presumably enjoyed the product (I assume you have if you’ve bought 5 consecutively) because some report said you might statistically have 1.something problems instead of 1 problem per 100 vehicles?

 

I’m not understanding that logic.

I never said I was going to switch to another brand.  I said I would "start looking at other makes" but that's as far as I went.  I want to stick with Lincoln but any intelligent and reasonably cautious person will look at what is offered when in the market for a new vehicle. 

 

I am not having problems with my current Lincoln (2019 MKZ Hybrid).  It has been wonderful.  Of course, the 2019 model year of the Z was also the 7th consecutive year of production of essentially the same vehicle, with improvements (and appearance changes) along the way, thus by the 2019 model year, pretty much all of the "bugs" had been worked out of the MKZ.

 

My previous vehicle (2016 MKC) had a couple annoying things that made me not regret turning it in 3 months before the end of its lease (I asked about getting out of that lease earlier than 3 months but was turned down), and some of the earlier models I've had (2013 MKZ-H, 2009 MKS, and 2007 MKZ) had an issue or three, here and there.

 

I am always looking ahead at candidates for my next vehicle, planning at least a couple years ahead for a possible next purchase.  What I have read on this web site about quality/reliability issues with current Lincoln offerings and what I have read in publications like Consumer Reports tend to give me pause.  Thus, I guess I am one who just "read something about them being 'not reliable'" and I don't apologize for that, although I will continue to collect information and continue to evaluate things as the time to buy nears.

 

Three of the current four Lincoln models have "Far Below Average" ratings for reliability in Consumer Reports (only the Navigator has as much as a "middlin" reliability rating of "Average").

 

That disappoints me as I really want Lincoln to do well.  After all, I own F stock, plus I've had a lifelong "thing" for Lincolns (my first girlfriend's dad was mayor of the town, and he used to pick up my girlfriend--his daughter--and me at the junior high once a week and take us to the drive-in for lunch in his new, chocolate brown Lincoln Continental Mark III; I remember thinking even then that someday I, too, would drive a Lincoln).

 

I do considerable reading and research before committing to any major purchase.  I won't buy a vehicle that has a "far below average" reputation for reliability.  I just won't.

 

For 3 consecutive years, I was one of those chosen to submit customer experience reports to Consumer Reports on the vehicles I had then, a 2009 MKS, then a 2013 MKZ-H.  The magazine uses those ratings in building its customer experience reports.

 

As new-vehicle purchase time nears, I will do more and more reading and research.  I realize fully that any vehicle's reliability can improve over time as the manufacturer gets more experience with building it and as customers identify issues needing work.  I can't buy another 2019 MKZ-h.  Lincoln doesn't make it anymore.  I have to look at what Lincoln is offering at the time I am in the market for a new vehicle.

 

During the last few years of the MKZ's production, its reliability improved a lot, thus my satisfaction with my 2019 Z-h, but my great experience so far with a vehicle that Lincoln had been building (and improving) for 7 consecutive years is no guarantee that my next Lincoln of a completely different model will be equally reliable and equally well-behaved.  It doesn't work like that.  

 

Each model is different and, based on what I have read, 3 of the 4 current Lincoln offerings have serious reliability issues.  I am not "done" doing my research.  I am not yet ready to buy.  Weighing the "pros and cons" will be an ongoing thing until I make a decision and sign the check.

 

Darling Wife thinks my MKZ-H looks sharp but she would like something that's easier to enter/exit (we are no longer spring chickens) so I'm leaning toward a small or mid-size SUV.

 

I hope very much that by the time I am ready to sign the check for a new vehicle, whatever vehicles Lincoln is offering by then will have at least good (better yet, very good to excellent) reputations for reliability--enough so to give me confidence in a 6th consecutive new Lincoln for me.

 

My position stands unchanged:  I love Lincoln.  I sincerely want it to do well.  But, based on what I have read recently, the current offerings have reliability issues (3 of them especially).  I don't and won't apologize for being cautious and judicious in how I spend my money.

 

Lincoln, I love you, but you need to work on your reliability issues.

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If you look at the JD power Vehicle Dependability report (which I trust more than CR) you’ll see very little real difference between brands.  The very best are still averaging almost 1 problem per vehicle in the first 3 years and the other 90% are averaging 2 or less.  Statistically speaking there isn’t a huge gap.  In that context where each brand ranks is almost irrelevant when they are so close.

 

What you should look at is specific problems like the 2020 Explorer/Aviator or the engine coolant problems and stay away from those type of problems or potential problems.

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Honestly, I stopped considering CR years ago when making any kind of purchasing decision.  I found that all too often they gave greater weight to minor issues or features than what I considered to be relevant, and there appears to be little concern for cost/benefit for many of the changes they champion.

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12 hours ago, 1984Poke said:

I never said I was going to switch to another brand.  I said I would "start looking at other makes" but that's as far as I went.  I want to stick with Lincoln but any intelligent and reasonably cautious person will look at what is offered when in the market for a new vehicle. 

 

I am not having problems with my current Lincoln (2019 MKZ Hybrid).  It has been wonderful.  Of course, the 2019 model year of the Z was also the 7th consecutive year of production of essentially the same vehicle, with improvements (and appearance changes) along the way, thus by the 2019 model year, pretty much all of the "bugs" had been worked out of the MKZ.

 

My previous vehicle (2016 MKC) had a couple annoying things that made me not regret turning it in 3 months before the end of its lease (I asked about getting out of that lease earlier than 3 months but was turned down), and some of the earlier models I've had (2013 MKZ-H, 2009 MKS, and 2007 MKZ) had an issue or three, here and there.

 

I am always looking ahead at candidates for my next vehicle, planning at least a couple years ahead for a possible next purchase.  What I have read on this web site about quality/reliability issues with current Lincoln offerings and what I have read in publications like Consumer Reports tend to give me pause.  Thus, I guess I am one who just "read something about them being 'not reliable'" and I don't apologize for that, although I will continue to collect information and continue to evaluate things as the time to buy nears.

 

Three of the current four Lincoln models have "Far Below Average" ratings for reliability in Consumer Reports (only the Navigator has as much as a "middlin" reliability rating of "Average").

 

That disappoints me as I really want Lincoln to do well.  After all, I own F stock, plus I've had a lifelong "thing" for Lincolns (my first girlfriend's dad was mayor of the town, and he used to pick up my girlfriend--his daughter--and me at the junior high once a week and take us to the drive-in for lunch in his new, chocolate brown Lincoln Continental Mark III; I remember thinking even then that someday I, too, would drive a Lincoln).

 

I do considerable reading and research before committing to any major purchase.  I won't buy a vehicle that has a "far below average" reputation for reliability.  I just won't.

 

For 3 consecutive years, I was one of those chosen to submit customer experience reports to Consumer Reports on the vehicles I had then, a 2009 MKS, then a 2013 MKZ-H.  The magazine uses those ratings in building its customer experience reports.

 

As new-vehicle purchase time nears, I will do more and more reading and research.  I realize fully that any vehicle's reliability can improve over time as the manufacturer gets more experience with building it and as customers identify issues needing work.  I can't buy another 2019 MKZ-h.  Lincoln doesn't make it anymore.  I have to look at what Lincoln is offering at the time I am in the market for a new vehicle.

 

During the last few years of the MKZ's production, its reliability improved a lot, thus my satisfaction with my 2019 Z-h, but my great experience so far with a vehicle that Lincoln had been building (and improving) for 7 consecutive years is no guarantee that my next Lincoln of a completely different model will be equally reliable and equally well-behaved.  It doesn't work like that.  

 

Each model is different and, based on what I have read, 3 of the 4 current Lincoln offerings have serious reliability issues.  I am not "done" doing my research.  I am not yet ready to buy.  Weighing the "pros and cons" will be an ongoing thing until I make a decision and sign the check.

 

Darling Wife thinks my MKZ-H looks sharp but she would like something that's easier to enter/exit (we are no longer spring chickens) so I'm leaning toward a small or mid-size SUV.

 

I hope very much that by the time I am ready to sign the check for a new vehicle, whatever vehicles Lincoln is offering by then will have at least good (better yet, very good to excellent) reputations for reliability--enough so to give me confidence in a 6th consecutive new Lincoln for me.

 

My position stands unchanged:  I love Lincoln.  I sincerely want it to do well.  But, based on what I have read recently, the current offerings have reliability issues (3 of them especially).  I don't and won't apologize for being cautious and judicious in how I spend my money.

 

Lincoln, I love you, but you need to work on your reliability issues.

I would consider purchasing Lincoln's new EV crossover when it comes out next year. If you want to be really cautious, maybe wait a year or two for them to get the bugs sorted. But after that, it should be golden. Evs are generally quite reliable when they aren't made by Tesla.

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We've discussed it before on various threads, but a problem I have with current reliability stats - whether it be JD Power or CR, etc. - is they seem to still give equivalent values to "I couldn't figure out how to connect my phone with bluetooth" and "my transmission exploded on the highway and I was stranded".  One issue is an annoyance, the other leaves the vehicle undrivable, and those should not be equal.

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On 10/5/2021 at 10:58 AM, TexasRedneck said:

 I found that all too often they (Consumer Reports) gave greater weight to minor issues or features than what I considered to be relevant....

I agree with you on that point.

 

CR's reviewers b!tch and moan ad infinitum about Lincoln's push-button transmission system setup, something they constantly call "fussy" when it's about as simple as it can be and is a system that took me all of 5 seconds to master.  Irritating.

 

However, having been one of their subscriber/car experience participants for three years (it was about 10 years ago), filling out rather detailed reports on the cars I owned during those years, I do put some trust in their reliability information especially when what they report on that topic seems to echo/line up with other reporting on reliability.

 

 

Edited by 1984Poke
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On 10/9/2021 at 3:52 PM, BigUnixGeek said:

I’d like to know more about this. Can you link me to some proper info?

I used the X plan in late 2018 to get my current Lincoln (2019 MKZ-H) and I really liked the low-stress simplicity of it.

 

If you are one who loves to haggle and if you are good at negotiating and haggling, you probably can get a better deal by doing that rather than using the X plan.  However, if you'd prefer a simple and straightforward good deal without all the sturm und drang of haggling, go with the X plan.

 

I've used the X plan only once (didn't know about it before) but I intend to use it again if I stay with Lincoln (as is my desire) for my next purchase.

 

I was surprised and pleased by how quickly I got the PIN.  I collected all the needed info and forms, scanned and sent them to the appropriate email address, and received a PIN from Ford the same day (within a few hours).

Edited by 1984Poke
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If it weren't for the chip shortage Ford should be above $20/share right now.  They are making all the right moves lately by selling off / closing down unprofitable regions such as Brazil and India and their electrification strategy seems to be gaining momentum with all the recent partnerships and announcements such as BlueOvalSK and Blue Oval City.  It still amazes me that small startups like Lucid can have a market cap that is 2/3 of Ford and they are not yet selling any vehicles, let alone posting a profit.  I do think the new Lucid Air is a great vehicle and better than the Model S even, but electric car company valuations are completely out of whack with reality and a sign of how frothy this market has become.  Tesla's $775b market cap may make sense if they were the only game in town, but they are increasingly seeing new competition as each day passes and I don't see how the air doesn't get pricked out of that bubble over the coming months and years.

I'm glad to see Ford focusing more on service businesses such as telematics which will bring a steady revenue that helps mitigate the normal boom bust cycle of the auto industry.  I do wish they would work more on the Ford Pass and Lincoln Way apps.  It's nice that you can start your car, lock & unlock doors, and check your gas level...but it would be nice to control more vehicle functions (cooled seats, defroster, HVAC temp) and just be a more robust app that integrates better with daily life.  Lincoln / Ford rewards are pretty lacking too.  With how digital Millennials and Gen Z are, Ford needs to think bigger when it comes to its apps.

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2 hours ago, mustang84isu said:

... Tesla's $775b market cap may make sense if they were the only game in town, but they are increasingly seeing new competition as each day passes and I don't see how the air doesn't get pricked out of that bubble over the coming months and years....

 

The valuation of Tesla is not based on the car line alone...the charging network and the rocket/space division are included in that value...but I agree that it is too high.

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5 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

The valuation of Tesla is not based on the car line alone...the charging network and the rocket/space division are included in that value...but I agree that it is too high.

 

No, Space X is a private company with a private stock valuation of $100 billion. Elon Musk is now the richest person in the world. Space X is now launching thousands of constellation satellites that offer worldwide internet service. Too bad though that Musk is killing himself with lack of sleep and weird ass thoughts. He sure is a visionary though.

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10 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

No, Space X is a private company with a private stock valuation of $100 billion. Elon Musk is now the richest person in the world. Space X is now launching thousands of constellation satellites that offer worldwide internet service. Too bad though that Musk is killing himself with lack of sleep and weird ass thoughts. He sure is a visionary though.

 

Yes, it is a private company, majority owned by Elon Musk Trust, that trust also has it's fingers in The Boring Company, Tesla, etc etc etc... Wall Steet investors see the connection and pour big $$ into what the CAN buy....

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13 minutes ago, docarter said:

I am worried Ford wont' be ready to respond when gas prices climb back over $4/gal nationally. 

 

Hmmmm... Ford has the Escape hybrid, plugin, Corsair plugin, Aviator plugin, Explorer hybrid, Maverick hybrid, Mach E, and Lightning already in preproduction phase. That covers the center of Ford's lineup. 

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10 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Hmmmm... Ford has the Escape hybrid, plugin, Corsair plugin, Aviator plugin, Explorer hybrid, Maverick hybrid, Mach E, and Lightning already in preproduction phase. That covers the center of Ford's lineup. 


Comparing to sedans the only really competitive vehicles are the Escape and Maverick? 

Kia will sell you a Rio that gets 41 mpg hwy for $12.7k (cars.com) and the closest thing Ford has is the Maverick hybrid at 20k without cruise control? 

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27 minutes ago, docarter said:


Kia will sell you a Rio that gets 41 mpg hwy for $12.7k (cars.com) and the closest thing Ford has is the Maverick hybrid at 20k without cruise control? 

 

Except that car doesn't actually exist at that price. (Yes, dealers lie in ads)

 

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