Uncovered: 2021 F-150 Front and Rear Design! Now with more Hybrid

[probowler]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Of course they could be chasing buyers with a much higher disposable income...

Crazy how far we've come in 15 years... It doesn't seem like that long ago the idea of a new Bronco was a "niche product" that Ford couldn't afford to spend money on... now it's poised to once again be one of the most important products in the lineup.

Do you believe that if Ford is ever able to "get fit" and substantially increase its financial position, that we might see more niche and passion projects from them?

[probowler]

7 hours ago, MY93SHO said:

 

No one wants a big screen in an F150. (sarcasm)

 

 

That is a very impressive product. I can definitely imagine there being a market, especially when these trucks get a little older and the 2nd and 3rd owners who buy the lower-tier models seek out upgrades, and boy is this a helluva an upgrade.

I know Ford has mentioned accessories as being part of the Bronco's strategy, and while that is obviously 4x4 and off-road orientated, I wonder if they might also target the interior and electronic upgrade market?

As this video shows, there appears to be a demand, and if Ford can make extra money upgrading cars after their sold, why not?  Seems like a natural and easy new path towards revenue generation, and keeps customers coming back to the Blue oval even after purchase.

[probowler]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It's just the latest arms race, Ford intends keeping its ~900k sales of F Series sales.

I want them to target 1-million. Is that an arbitrary number? Perhaps, but it sounds damn cool and if the market is expanding, why not get in on the action and pump up those sales!  That would be fantastic!  Hopefully Hackett and Farley will put the pedal to the metal on this, I would love to see them get aggressive here.

[atomcat68]

3 hours ago, probowler said:

That is a very impressive product. I can definitely imagine there being a market, especially when these trucks get a little older and the 2nd and 3rd owners who buy the lower-tier models seek out upgrades, and boy is this a helluva an upgrade.

I know Ford has mentioned accessories as being part of the Bronco's strategy, and while that is obviously 4x4 and off-road orientated, I wonder if they might also target the interior and electronic upgrade market?

As this video shows, there appears to be a demand, and if Ford can make extra money upgrading cars after their sold, why not?  Seems like a natural and easy new path towards revenue generation, and keeps customers coming back to the Blue oval even after purchase.

At 3:51 in the video, he talks about the screen being held in place by 6 bolts, and you can see one is not there... (doh!) At least they saved money on bolts that day...

[akirby]

3 hours ago, probowler said:

Crazy how far we've come in 15 years... It doesn't seem like that long ago the idea of a new Bronco was a "niche product" that Ford couldn't afford to spend money on... now it's poised to once again be one of the most important products in the lineup.

Do you believe that if Ford is ever able to "get fit" and substantially increase its financial position, that we might see more niche and passion projects from them?

You have to look at where Ford was back then.  There was no readily available factory space and no US Ranger to share platform and the mid sized truck market was still an unknown.  That all changed a few years ago.

 

Hackett does want higher profit margin vehicles which leads to vehicles that are more passionate and exciting.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, probowler said:

I want them to target 1-million. Is that an arbitrary number? Perhaps, but it sounds damn cool and if the market is expanding, why not get in on the action and pump up those sales!  That would be fantastic!  Hopefully Hackett and Farley will put the pedal to the metal on this, I would love to see them get aggressive here.

Sales volume is tricky.  You can increase sales by lowering prices/increasing rebates but that may not increase profit so what good does that do?  Especially if you have to expand manufacturing?  If you have to build a factory to get an additional 100k sales then you’re losing money.

 

 

[ice-capades]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Sales volume is tricky.  You can increase sales by lowering prices/increasing rebates but that may not increase profit so what good does that do?  Especially if you have to expand manufacturing?  If you have to build a factory to get an additional 100k sales then you’re losing money.

 

 

 

Agreed but Ford is pushing the price points to the high end on all their models. They still offer the entry level versions but it's difficult for dealers to get them scheduled and built because of the constant commodity restrictions. The increased profits on the higher level trims are great but Ford consistently loses customers to the competition. But then again, Ford's position for years has been that they don't care about losing customers to the competition. In the 80's and 90's Ford had 25% of the market with 6 out of the top 10 retail selling vehicles. Over the years Ford's market share dropped to 15% representing a 40% drop with customers buying vehicles from the competition. Once you lose a customer to the competition it's very hard to get them back especially if they've gone to brands with high owner loyalty. What does help is the increased percentage of vehicle leasing which at least gives dealers a shot at retaining the customer as the lease end comes up. 

 

There is no simple or easy answer but too many of the executive decisions coming out of Dearborn are short sighted and without any knowledge of what actually happens at the dealership level.   

[MosheYehuda]

Interior spied

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/02/21/2021-ford-f150-interior-spied/

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Agreed but Ford is pushing the price points to the high end on all their models. They still offer the entry level versions but it's difficult for dealers to get them scheduled and built because of the constant commodity restrictions. The increased profits on the higher level trims are great but Ford consistently loses customers to the competition. But then again, Ford's position for years has been that they don't care about losing customers to the competition. In the 80's and 90's Ford had 25% of the market with 6 out of the top 10 retail selling vehicles. Over the years Ford's market share dropped to 15% representing a 40% drop with customers buying vehicles from the competition. Once you lose a customer to the competition it's very hard to get them back especially if they've gone to brands with high owner loyalty. What does help is the increased percentage of vehicle leasing which at least gives dealers a shot at retaining the customer as the lease end comes up. 

 

There is no simple or easy answer but too many of the executive decisions coming out of Dearborn are short sighted and without any knowledge of what actually happens at the dealership level.   

I noticed all of Hackett’s talk of priotizing customer order builds and quicker delivery all went into the bin. Heck, even getting basic build to inventory product to dealers is hard enough. The folks wanting Ford to sell a million F Trucks a year don’t understand the logistics nightmare, you have first hand knowledge of this so I won’t go in about it, Ford doesn’t or can’t book enough trucks and trains for its needs, they just don’t seem to be wired to stretch and make more sales happen.

Edited February 23, 2020 by jpd80

[sho94_2000]

18 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Oh I think we have a pretty good idea that I contributed to Ram's success last year and that's why Ford is  responding.

 

18 hours ago, MY93SHO said:

 

Plenty of people, you live under a rock?

 

Who currently offers the largest screen in a pickup?  Who surpassed Chevy for #2?

 

-What percentage of current generation Rams sold have the 12" screen?

-What percentage of current generation of Rams sold have the smaller screens?

-What percentage of all Rams sold in 2019 were the classic body style where the 12" screen isn't even offered?

 

The assertion that Ram saw the massive increase in sales because of the 12" screen is laughable.  Was it, potentially, a small factor?  Yes.  But the way it drives, the silky smooth ride, the interior that looks to easily remain best in class, the styling, etc all contributed to the positive public's response to that truck.  Plus you had the classic which was priced very aggressively.  I see far more "classics" than I ever thought I would.  

 

If anything Ford's sales of smaller screen F-Series proves people really don't care about screen size because here we are in 2020 and they have still a smaller screen than what Ram was offering in 2013.

 

 

[snooter]

When credit markets tighten...its going to be very interesting as to who is left....ford is pushing heavily on upscale branding...the 15" television fits right into there belief...depending on november outcome, it could get real interesting....

[jpd80]

8 minutes ago, snooter said:

When credit markets tighten...its going to be very interesting as to who is left....ford is pushing heavily on upscale branding...the 15" television fits right into there belief...depending on november outcome, it could get real interesting....

And Ram for one is pushing more sales with lower credit scores. All manufacturers will have their own issues to resolve but with a general softening of sales, higher and higher numbers may not be possible even desirable if they start pulling forward sales. 
 

The influence of politics is anyone’s guess but I imagine that building confidence ahead of November will be high on the to do list.

[jpd80]

46 minutes ago, sho94_2000 said:

 

 

-What percentage of current generation Rams sold have the 12" screen?

-What percentage of current generation of Rams sold have the smaller screens?

-What percentage of all Rams sold in 2019 were the classic body style where the 12" screen isn't even offered?

 

The assertion that Ram saw the massive increase in sales because of the 12" screen is laughable.  Was it, potentially, a small factor?  Yes.  But the way it drives, the silky smooth ride, the interior that looks to easily remain best in class, the styling, etc all contributed to the positive public's response to that truck.  Plus you had the classic which was priced very aggressively.  I see far more "classics" than I ever thought I would.  

 

If anything Ford's sales of smaller screen F-Series proves people really don't care about screen size because here we are in 2020 and they have still a smaller screen than what Ram was offering in 2013.

 

 

Don’t underestimate the change in consumer desire, I think Rams success was at least in part due to it’s better interior compared to Silverado, the option of a bigger screen even if not ordered by most can sway buyers in the upper segments, they wouldn’t offer it unless they expected to sell plenty can be faulty thinking but in this case bigger is better. Ford knows that buyers want bigger screens, it’s the new point of differentiation.

Edited February 23, 2020 by jpd80

[snooter]

It was not  just silverado buyers were looking at....ford interiors are utterly pathetic...a 15" television is not going to fix that

[akirby]

Ford interiors are far from pathetic.

[ZanatWork]

The Ram's popularity also is partially due to its coil-spring rear suspension, which may not be as spec-sheet impressive as the typical leaf rear springs, but the Ram is supposedly better driving/riding than the F-series in everyday use.

As much as the bigger screen will attract some plebian truck buyers, the driveability in no/light load situations is a bigger deal.

 

[CKNSLS]

20 hours ago, MY93SHO said:

 

Plenty of people, you live under a rock?

 

Who currently offers the largest screen in a pickup?  Who surpassed Chevy for #2?

The front end of the Silverado-coupled with the bargain basement interior-is the reason RAM has surpassed Chevrolet.  As well as suspension improvements and other qualities already mentioned above. If you frequent any other truck boards at all-one would know this. That's the 'rock" you need  to look under. Unlike Ford-RAM is seeing substantial conquest sales.

Edited February 23, 2020 by CKNSLS

[Black Label]

All this Ram talk. Not a fan. Never have been. 

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

The front end of the Silverado-coupled with the bargain basement interior-is the reason RAM has surpassed Chevrolet.  As well as suspension improvements and other qualities already mentioned above. If you frequent any other truck boards at all-one would know this. That's the 'rock" you need  to look under. Unlike Ford-RAM is seeing substantial conquest sales.

I actually like the body of the Silverado, and i think the front looks pretty good if it has the trail boss front clip (any other front looks bad). The interior has been its downfall though. I thought I read somewhere that it would be getting the Tahoe’s interior. I wonder if that would be enough for it to take back the #2 spot?

[CKNSLS]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

I actually like the body of the Silverado, and i think the front looks pretty good if it has the trail boss front clip (any other front looks bad). The interior has been its downfall though. I thought I read somewhere that it would be getting the Tahoe’s interior. I wonder if that would be enough for it to take back the #2 spot?

 

 

Yes-now that the "Trail Boss" trim is available-many do agree that's the best look. Otherwise -there is not a pleasing angle from any perspective on the front of that truck.

 

I soon as I saw the redesign-I couldn't get to the dealer fast enough to buy a 2018 Silverado. Ford (at the time) felt their trucks were worth $5,000.00 more. I didn't.

 

I traded in a 2012 GMC Sierra SLT-for about half the price of the new truck. Crazy trade in-high blue book.

Edited February 24, 2020 by CKNSLS

[probowler]

11 hours ago, akirby said:

Sales volume is tricky.  You can increase sales by lowering prices/increasing rebates but that may not increase profit so what good does that do?  Especially if you have to expand manufacturing?  If you have to build a factory to get an additional 100k sales then you’re losing money.

 

 

True points, I have never advocated lowering pricing just for the sake of increasing sales, though I have questioned ford abandoning the low-cost car market.

I want Ford to grow by making attractive, reliable vehicles that people desire, and they attract new customers to the brand. I would like Ford to get to the point where they do need another factory, because the demand is so high and they got all these new customers trying to buy Explorers and F150s... Ford is probably my favorite US automaker, slightly above Dodge (Uh... I guess they're Italian now ? ) and I would love to see them profitably crush Government motors.

Edited February 24, 2020 by probowler

[probowler]

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I noticed all of Hackett’s talk of priotizing customer order builds and quicker delivery all went into the bin. Heck, even getting basic build to inventory product to dealers is hard enough. The folks wanting Ford to sell a million F Trucks a year don’t understand the logistics nightmare, you have first hand knowledge of this so I won’t go in about it, Ford doesn’t or can’t book enough trucks and trains for its needs, they just don’t seem to be wired to stretch and make more sales happen.

Ford is never going to grow their business without new customers. You can only make so much money off a fixed number of people before they have no more left to spend on your vehicle, even if it's desirable. Their job is to sort out the logistics, sell more cars, and make more profit.

Is selling high-margin vehicles good? Yes. Would selling more of those high-margin vehicles be better? Damn straight. I'm not saying it will be easy, but they should be looking at multiple ways to grow the business, not just solely focusing on raising price points.

Edited February 24, 2020 by probowler

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, probowler said:

, but they should be looking at multiple ways to grow the business, not just solely focusing on raising price points.

You mean like expanding Ranger on a new platform, adding an all new Bronco sub brand with multiple new vehicles, adding hybrid mustang and F150, 5 BEVs including Mach-e, F150 and a new Lincoln only flagship plus a new affordable vehicle and a smaller CUV and trucklet?

[silvrsvt]

19 minutes ago, akirby said:

a new affordable vehicle and a smaller CUV and trucklet?

 

Still haven't heard anything about this affordable vehicle outside of it was approved in record time. I guess we will see the small truck later this year with a Spring/Summer 2021 release? The small CUV/Cheap Vehicle thing is getting mixed up plus isn't there some sort of small three row CUV that will be based on the Trucklet and Transit Connect when it goes into production in Mexico? I'd assume that might be more then the Escape, since it would be similar in size. 

 

Guess we will find out. 

 

[probowler]

23 minutes ago, akirby said:

You mean like expanding Ranger on a new platform, adding an all new Bronco sub brand with multiple new vehicles, adding hybrid mustang and F150, 5 BEVs including Mach-e, F150 and a new Lincoln only flagship plus a new affordable vehicle and a smaller CUV and trucklet?

Yes.