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Honda Pilot vs. Ford Explorer: All-New 3-Row SUV Takes on a Segment Stalwart


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43 minutes ago, sho94_2000 said:

And I have a feeling Ford will do the same thing with the Explorer as they did the DPS6....be aware there is an issue but completely ignore it publicly.  Buy hey, profit margin right?

 

Except they've already announced (or been confirmed by insiders) upgraded interiors.   And the build issues are probably fixed by now.   They're not ignoring Explorer.

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53 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

And as we’ve already heard on another thread, there’s already a quick revision planned for the XLT interior inside two months, so ford is responding a lot quicker than some anticipated. In spite of quality issues, there’s still a lot of good will and support from buyers, so regardless of Pilot/ Passport success that may not directly impact on Explorer’s sales.

 

This is good to know. The Explorer has real presence on the road...it looks better in real life than in the photos (and it's not bad-looking in the photos). But Ford needs to address some details.

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7 minutes ago, grbeck said:

 

This is good to know. The Explorer has real presence on the road...it looks better in real life than in the photos (and it's not bad-looking in the photos). But Ford needs to address some details.

Icecapades mentioned a revision coming to XLT interior a week or two ago, it will arrive long before the planned trim option on XLT

I mentioned that because some folks were getting the two mixed up, XLT interior is going to look a lot better in short time.

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Maybe it's a top down rethinking that needs to be done.  Sounds like there needs to be a return to "if we're going to build it, it better be the best in its class" - which, I don't think that Ford ever really achieved, even though it was a stated goal at one time.  Quality and value needs to be their mantra (not only in commitment but in execution) IMO. 

 

My son recently passed on the Explorer and went a different route.  That is the second time in a row as the same thing happened 4 years ago when it was time to acquire a SUV for the wife.  Being in a longtime Ford family, he said that he gave the Explorer a good look - but the "quality and value" just wasn't even close (to the competition). He even stated that he was shocked that it was so noisy, the interior and fit & finish so poor, and the amenities that were included by the competition (at a lower cost). Sounds like there needs to be a revaluation of more than just QC employees.  The industry is approaching a very turbulent time and if they can't design, engineer, and build such an important vehicle (in their line-up), then there is mucho trouble ahead.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

There's nothing like the pain of immediate costs from warranty work to sharpen Ford's attention to quality

it was a real gut punch to profits last year so you can bet that improving Explorer quality was top priority.

 

Unless it's Focus/Fiesta haha....

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14 minutes ago, RaZor said:

Maybe it's a top down rethinking that needs to be done.  Sounds like there needs to be a return to "if we're going to build it, it better be the best in its class" - which, I don't think that Ford ever really achieved, even though it was a stated goal at one time.  Quality and value needs to be their mantra (not only in commitment but in execution) IMO. 

 

My son recently passed on the Explorer and went a different route.  That is the second time in a row as the same thing happened 4 years ago when it was time to acquire a SUV for the wife.  Being in a longtime Ford family, he said that he gave the Explorer a good look - but the "quality and value" just wasn't even close (to the competition). He even stated that he was shocked that it was so noisy, the interior and fit & finish so poor, and the amenities that were included by the competition (at a lower cost). Sounds like there needs to be a revaluation of more than just QC employees.  The industry is approaching a very turbulent time and if they can't design, engineer, and build such an important vehicle (in their line-up), then there is mucho trouble ahead.

 

 

 

The current directive from the top down is to commit to and own segments. 

 

Explorer launch was an absolute outlier and blame has been assigned and punishment executed. 

 

We're going to see a long, slow transition of power from Hackett to Farley and I'd expect mostly smooth sailing. 

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Regardless of what the critics say and the forum folks think. I see the new explorer everywhere around here. I used to see the previous generation a lot. But not I’m seeing the new one everyday. So something must be right. Arm chair critics and car magazines don’t buy cars. The general public does.

 

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15 minutes ago, RaZor said:

Maybe it's a top down rethinking that needs to be done.  Sounds like there needs to be a return to "if we're going to build it, it better be the best in its class" - which, I don't think that Ford ever really achieved, even though it was a stated goal at one time.  Quality and value needs to be their mantra (not only in commitment but in execution) IMO. 

 

My son recently passed on the Explorer and went a different route.  That is the second time in a row as the same thing happened 4 years ago when it was time to acquire a SUV for the wife.  Being in a longtime Ford family, he said that he gave the Explorer a good look - but the "quality and value" just wasn't even close (to the competition). He even stated that he was shocked that it was so noisy, the interior and fit & finish so poor, and the amenities that were included by the competition (at a lower cost). Sounds like there needs to be a revaluation of more than just QC employees.  The industry is approaching a very turbulent time and if they can't design, engineer, and build such an important vehicle (in their line-up), then there is mucho trouble ahead.

 

That is still the goal but in the short term the company has too many irons in the fire to make them all best in class.  It appears they put most of their resources into Aviator.  When you have limited resources you sometimes have to make business decisions that aren't popular.   I do think it turned out worse than expected and initial pricing was very high but that should be fixed this year and going forward it will be nothing more than a blip.  

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1 minute ago, fordtech1 said:

Regardless of what the critics say and the forum folks think. I see the new explorer everywhere around here. I used to see the previous generation a lot. But not I’m seeing the new one everyday. So something must be right. Arm chair critics and car magazines don’t buy cars. The general public does.

 

 

Thats been my experience here also-the thing that concerns me is the lack of new Escapes in my area. I've seen a handful, but its been weeks since I saw the last one. I see the 2013-2019 MY all the time. 

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6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Thats been my experience here also-the thing that concerns me is the lack of new Escapes in my area. I've seen a handful, but its been weeks since I saw the last one. I see the 2013-2019 MY all the time. 

You are correct but the local ford store has several 2019 escapes and 4-5 2020 escapes. Not sure if that’s the problem. I’m seeing a few here and there. 
 I sat in a 2020 the other night, it was left unlocked, it was such an upgrade from my 2015. I could get my long legs in the back seat which is a task in my 2015. 

I’m digging the hybrid. May have to trade up one day.

 

Also, I think it looks much better in person than in pictures. 
The Corsair was at the same dealer and man that thing looks so much better than the MKC. 

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24 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 I see the 2013-2019 MY all the time. 

 

Considering that they sold something like 2 mil of the 2013-2019 models, and probably less than 100K of the 2020's, it's easy to see why the previous model is much more visible.

 

Of course, as more people experience the new 1.5L EB 3-cylinder,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

HRG

Edited by HotRunrGuy
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Icecapades mentioned a revision coming to XLT interior a week or two ago, it will arrive long before the planned trim option on XLT

I mentioned that because some folks were getting the two mixed up, XLT interior is going to look a lot better in short time.

Any additional info on what is going to change in the XLT? 

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2 hours ago, sho94_2000 said:


I think the issues are very much still present.  Ford addressed the issues that required the vehicles to be fixed immediately after being built (issues dealers could not fix) but the issues dealers can fix Ford just turfed to them.  A sheriffs office in my area had nine of their new Explorer orders cancelled by Ford because they could not be fixed.  The Explorers were destroyed.  
 

As good as the Kia and Hyundai interiors are, this is more about how bad the Explorer is to everything else.  And I have a feeling Ford will do the same thing with the Explorer as they did the DPS6....be aware there is an issue but completely ignore it publicly.  Buy hey, profit margin right?
 

 


Does anyone remember the issue of exhaust fumes leaking into the PI Explorer Cab?  It was poisoning officers. I believe it was solved a while ago, but does anyone remember what the issue was and how Ford fixed it?

Just kinda curious.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Except they've already announced (or been confirmed by insiders) upgraded interiors.   And the build issues are probably fixed by now.   They're not ignoring Explorer.

 

Were those upgrades in response to the poor choice of materials and craftsmanship of the 2020 or were they going to be implemented regardless?

 

And we can agree to disagree on the ignoring part.  They are STILL sending vehicles to the press that have numerous quality control issues.  And I doubt NVH, a slow infotainment, and seat comfort is part of the 2021 upgrades but time will tell.

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13 minutes ago, sho94_2000 said:

 

Were those upgrades in response to the poor choice of materials and craftsmanship of the 2020 or were they going to be implemented regardless?

 

And we can agree to disagree on the ignoring part.  They are STILL sending vehicles to the press that have numerous quality control issues.  And I doubt NVH, a slow infotainment, and seat comfort is part of the 2021 upgrades but time will tell.

 

Given the timing and the fact that these things don't happen overnight, I would assume they simply ran out of time to do what they wanted to do by launch time so these were planned upgrades.

 

As for press vehicles - Ford just doesn't care about press vehicles any more.  It's frustrating but they learned a long time ago that vehicle reviews just don't matter any more and in some cases they're going to get dinged no matter what they do.   So they don't waste a lot of time on it.  It's not an indication of quality in the actual product.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

 

That is still the goal but in the short term the company has too many irons in the fire to make them all best in class.  It appears they put most of their resources into Aviator.  When you have limited resources you sometimes have to make business decisions that aren't popular.   I do think it turned out worse than expected and initial pricing was very high but that should be fixed this year and going forward it will be nothing more than a blip.  

 

I hope so. It's frustrating because the basic vehicle is very attractive. They need to address these details.

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2 hours ago, probowler said:


Does anyone remember the issue of exhaust fumes leaking into the PI Explorer Cab?  It was poisoning officers. I believe it was solved a while ago, but does anyone remember what the issue was and how Ford fixed it?

Just kinda curious.

 

I think it might have been partly from upfitting of police equipment and exhaust tip placement. 

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2 hours ago, sho94_2000 said:

 

Were those upgrades in response to the poor choice of materials and craftsmanship of the 2020 or were they going to be implemented regardless?

 

And we can agree to disagree on the ignoring part.  They are STILL sending vehicles to the press that have numerous quality control issues.  And I doubt NVH, a slow infotainment, and seat comfort is part of the 2021 upgrades but time will tell.

The changes are in response to feedback, it’s also coming much earlier than already planned updates. Most definitely ford stung into some early action.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The changes are in response to feedback, it’s also coming much earlier than already planned updates. Most definitely ford stung into some early action.

 

But probably already in the works before job 1, right?  It's not like they were surprised at the public reaction.

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My sister traded her loaded 17 Explorer Limited with leather seats for a nicely equiped 20 Explorer XLT with Activex seats.  She doesn't read reviews and has no idea what other people are saying... and she thinks the 20 is a lot nicer than her 17, inside and out.  I have to admit I wasn't expecting the interior to be very nice after reading all the trash talk... but I was pleasantly surprised after seeing it and had to agree with my sister.  No it's not a wannabe Aviator like the Telluride... but she's a happy camper who thinks it's a big improvment over her 17 Limited.

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If you compare Explorer with Telluride side by side (for example at an auto show), you can definitely see and touch the difference in material grades, especially in the 2nd and 3rd row area.  But compare the new Explorer to the old Explorer, the difference is less noticeable. But the point here is that old Explorer is 8 years old but still has some better-to-the-touch plastic panels and switch gears than the new one. 

 

This doesn't matter that much if you believe Explorer can retain a lot of its former buyers. But it will make conquest sales more difficult. 

 

Explorer vs. Telluride is exactly the same as Escape vs. CX-5... compare to the old Escape, the new one is about the same... some spots have better material, some spot significantly worse. But CX-5 is nice everywhere with soft touch plastic and quality tactile feeling switch gears. If people cross shop at all, they will walk away with the impression that Ford has a value proposition problem. 

 

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I'm in a family that is very much directly involved with the industry. 

 

According to them, the vast majority of customers only do comparative test drives of same-make vehicles... like coming to the Ford store to drive an Escape vs. Edge or Explorer vs. Expedition. Automakers - or at least Ford - are doing more meaningful market research than ever to identify exactly what target buyers are looking for in hyper-specific segments and in particular buying patterns. The idea of bouncing from a Honda store to Chevy to Ford to drive Pilots, Traverses, and Explorers is far outside of normal for today's average customer. Thus the brand - of both the maker and the nameplate - are arguably more important now than ever. 

 

The Telluride has a nicer interior than Explorer... mainly noticeable in the rear seating areas. This is surely more expensive... is that cost recuperated? What is the balance of total volume of Telluride/Palisade sales and at what ATP to keep the program profitable?

 

Ford gambled with the switch back to RWD and a brand new platform, and perhaps they were too conservative in certain interior appointments. However, the decisions weren't made out of laziness or ineptitude... they were made to support a specific business case. And, from all I can tell, even the disastrous launch hasn't impacted the financial expectations of the program. 

 

They are making some very small adjustments to interior materials as a direct response to pre-launch feedback. They're also going to sell at least 200,000 copies in 2020 and make a mint doing it. 

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12 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

I'm in a family that is very much directly involved with the industry. 

 

According to them, the vast majority of customers only do comparative test drives of same-make vehicles... like coming to the Ford store to drive an Escape vs. Edge or Explorer vs. Expedition. Automakers - or at least Ford - are doing more meaningful market research than ever to identify exactly what target buyers are looking for in hyper-specific segments and in particular buying patterns. The idea of bouncing from a Honda store to Chevy to Ford to drive Pilots, Traverses, and Explorers is far outside of normal for today's average customer. Thus the brand - of both the maker and the nameplate - are arguably more important now than ever. 

 

The Telluride has a nicer interior than Explorer... mainly noticeable in the rear seating areas. This is surely more expensive... is that cost recuperated? What is the balance of total volume of Telluride/Palisade sales and at what ATP to keep the program profitable?

 

Ford gambled with the switch back to RWD and a brand new platform, and perhaps they were too conservative in certain interior appointments. However, the decisions weren't made out of laziness or ineptitude... they were made to support a specific business case. And, from all I can tell, even the disastrous launch hasn't impacted the financial expectations of the program. 

 

They are making some very small adjustments to interior materials as a direct response to pre-launch feedback. They're also going to sell at least 200,000 copies in 2020 and make a mint doing it. 

 

I've been in the industry for a long time myself and have to disagree about your part regarding customer's only choosing one brand and want to decide which model they want. Maybe 25 years ago, when brand loyalty meant something but not today. No way. There are way to many good brands out there and customer's want to look at vehicle choices. Maybe in the truck market or the luxury market they may be more brand loyalty, but not in mid-priced segments. 

 

We can go around and around on this but I just don't see it. 

Have a neighbor who has had Honda's forever-get's totaled in her Pilot by a cop car who ran thru a light and she was debating going back and getting another Pilot. I suggested she look at the Telluride and her co-worker mentioned the same thing. Not sure if she ever looked at the Kia but she is driving a new Subaru Ascent. I could care less what the ATP is if I'm purchasing a vehicle-I want the best product/price that I can afford and am factoring in safety, quality, dealer network, etc......10 years ago, I would of never considered an Korean nameplate-now you have to be blind not to look at them and make your own decisions. There are way to many great products out there for consumers to choose from. 

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