blwnsmoke Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: You must have missed mine on page three of this thread- You don't understand the thought process of those who own EVs. They look for charging stations and will happily wait the half hour or so for a refuel. Without the Tesla APP-it would be impossible for you to know if/and how far the charging stations were. Yes-Tesla is going to hurt some automakers SUVs. To repeat-for you to have knowledge of charging stations you need the Tesla APP. And they can be hidden behind coffee shops, gas stations, rest stops, etc. They are out there. Nowhere did I say anything about you. But now to reply to you, I just went to Tesla's website and looked up their charging network. There is 1 supercharger between where I left and where I was going and that was about 1/3 of the way up and 2 destination chargers a small ways off the highway. No way would I pull off 1/3 of the way up with only 60 miles driven to top off.. and I would have never made it back unless I detoured off my route and hit a destination charger. So I have to go chasing a charger out of the way in order to "fill up".. or I can just spend the $52 in fuel it cost me for a round trip and not even have to fill up my Explorer throughout the whole trip. So no, I will not travel off my route to my destination to top off after driving only an hour in hopes that I can make it back to recharge before getting home. This is the problem as of now and will be for quite a while with the majority of people. Having a longer range hybrid is a much better idea. If I could have got an Aviator GT and it would have given me 50 miles of pure electric, that's enough for the day to day drive (to and from work) and never have to use a drop of gas but then the gas is there when I want to travel a 380 mile round trip if I can't find a charger that is directly on my route OR if there are no chargers around at all. I'd also would add 1-2 more solar panels to the 33 I have on my roof to cover the costs of recharging it. Edited March 5, 2020 by blwnsmoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OX1 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Who cares about chargers. On Superbowl Sunday I decided to go look at a 70 classic bronc for sale. https://classicbroncos.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26&prefixid=PA Left @ 5 AM, took about 4.5 hours to get there, maybe 6.5 to get home ( was up off western 80 in Pa, and an accident took me way out of the way up in mnts, where I had no idea how to get back to highway). Made it home well in time for Superbowl parties. This was the trip. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Jackson+Township,+New+Jersey/Ridgway,+Pennsylvania+15853/@41.2185881,-78.8014936,11z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c17a5688db20f5:0xc4f28bd99288a399!2m2!1d-74.3587473!2d40.0918895!1m5!1m1!1s0x89cd016c7de19477:0x1dd156c095d4c8a5!2m2!1d-78.7286388!2d41.4203391!3e0 With detours from accident due to 4 inch of unforcast snow when I got there, close to 700 miles. I was HAULING in my Fusion Sport, (once past NE extension) and it was cold. Whats the range that day of even a model S @ 90 in those temps? Of course I don't do that trip all the time, but when you gotta go, you gotta go. Edited March 5, 2020 by OX1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, blwnsmoke said: Nowhere did I say anything about you. But now to reply to you, I just went to Tesla's website and looked up their charging network. There is 1 supercharger between where I left and where I was going and that was about 1/3 of the way up and 2 destination chargers a small ways off the highway. No way would I pull off 1/3 of the way up with only 60 miles driven to top off.. and I would have never made it back unless I detoured off my route and hit a destination charger. So I have to go chasing a charger out of the way in order to "fill up".. or I can just spend the $52 in fuel it cost me for a round trip and not even have to fill up my Explorer throughout the whole trip. So no, I will not travel off my route to my destination to top off after driving only an hour in hopes that I can make it back to recharge before getting home. This is the problem as of now and will be for quite a while with the majority of people. Having a longer range hybrid is a much better idea. If I could have got an Aviator GT and it would have given me 50 miles of pure electric, that's enough for the day to day drive (to and from work) and never have to use a drop of gas but then the gas is there when I want to travel a 380 mile round trip if I can't find a charger that is directly on my route OR if there are no chargers around at all. I'd also would add 1-2 more solar panels to the 33 I have on my roof to cover the costs of recharging it. The points being is your previous post was made by superstition and not facts. So you checked (after your post) -there were chargers available adjacent to your route. You don't have the mindset of an EV owner. Many don't. As I previously mentioned-they will wait the half-hour to recharge (and play the available video games from their Tesla screen while waiting for the re-charge) and also go to the charging stations off their route. How far were the chargers "off the route"? Edited March 5, 2020 by CKNSLS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Now You Know video analyzing Model Y's impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I thought we hated hybrids and single cab short bed trucks? And the mach e was good for a 600 mile range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, snooter said: And the mach e was good for a 600 mile range... If Aviator Grand Touring is good for 50 mi. pure electric range as claimed earlier in this thread, then Mustang Mach E is definitely good for 600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: If Aviator Grand Touring is good for 50 mi. pure electric range as claimed earlier in this thread, then Mustang Mach E is definitely good for 600. Nowhere did I say the Aviator GT had 50 miles. Go back and REREAD my post. Ah screw it, let me just paste it here for you since you must be tired of constantly googling info and staring at your computer screen. " If I could have got an Aviator GT and it would have given me 50 miles of pure electric, that's enough for the day to day drive (to and from work) and never have to use a drop of gas" IF it did I would have one. I do not have one because it does not have 50 miles of pure electric. You should really take a break from the forum.. get out a little more.. possibly a play date with your BFF. It really makes you look bad. Edited March 5, 2020 by blwnsmoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 8 hours ago, CKNSLS said: You don't have the mindset of an EV owner. Many don't. Honestly, why should blwnsmoke or any of us care about the mindset of an EV owner. If Tesla wants to be a long term major player in the auto business, they need to care about the mindset of the average car owner. I agree with blwnsmoke, I am not altering my travel plans because I need to charge my car. If it won’t handle the trips I want to do without adding the inconvenience of finding a charger and waiting to recharge, I will not buy it. We’re replacing my wife’s Edge within the next year. There isn’t an BEV currently on the market or announced that I would consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 My gauge for range is 500 mi in 7.5 hours. So If I can't go that far in that amount of time, it isn't for me. That is basically an interstate road trip at 75 mph with just under 1 hour of total stops (gas, food, bathroom breaks) in any wind or temperature. Usually works out to a 40 min stop for gas and food and 2 shorter 10 min stops for bathroom breaks. Using a the Tesla trip planner, a drive from my house to my parents is 478 miles and would take 9 hours 9 min according to Tesla (in a Model X long range) with two charging stops, 60 min (after 174 mi) and 45 min (after 142 mi), plus the kicker is that there are no charge stations around (nearest is 36 mi away) the destination. Estimated gas savings is $65. According to Google maps, that same route takes 7 hrs 23 min driving. So figuring in 2 stops to keep it the same, add basically 40 minutes and it is still 1 hour longer in the Model X. The time savings to me is worth more than the gas saved. Depending on the wind, my Expedition could almost do that trip on 1 tank, but I generally fill up after 300 miles, which takes all of 5 minutes to accomplish. However I will say that we will strongly look at replacing our MkC in a few years with a BEV, because we don't take it on long trips and a 300 mi range would make it possible to do those shorter trips without needing to charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Flying68 said: However I will say that we will strongly look at replacing our MkC in a few years with a BEV, because we don't take it on long trips and a 300 mi range would make it possible to do those shorter trips without needing to charge. I will look at a BEV to replace my Mustang because we don’t take long trips in it. However, I don’t plan to replace it for another 9-10 years. Edited March 5, 2020 by CurtisH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Flying68 said: However I will say that we will strongly look at replacing our MkC in a few years with a BEV, because we don't take it on long trips and a 300 mi range would make it possible to do those shorter trips without needing to charge. And that is the sweet spot for high volume BEV sales. Most buyers are not going to want to stop and charge or find an overnight charger at their destination. I would buy a 300 mile range BEV for my vehicle but not as our only vehicle used for long trips. Just not willing to do it right now and that's where Plug in Hybrids make a lot of sense. Best of both worlds. The question is how many buyers beyond those already buying Teslas would be willing to have only a 300-400 mile range BEV. I think it's a lot lower than some people think especially in cold weather states but that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 12 hours ago, CKNSLS said: The points being is your previous post was made by superstition and not facts. So you checked (after your post) -there were chargers available adjacent to your route. You don't have the mindset of an EV owner. Many don't. As I previously mentioned-they will wait the half-hour to recharge (and play the available video games from their Tesla screen while waiting for the re-charge) and also go to the charging stations off their route. How far were the chargers "off the route"? I'm sorry, that's absurd. They can sit there and wait. I'm not doing that, and nor will most of the buying public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 15 hours ago, OX1 said: Who cares about chargers. On Superbowl Sunday I decided to go look at a 70 classic bronc for sale. https://classicbroncos.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26&prefixid=PA Left @ 5 AM, took about 4.5 hours to get there, maybe 6.5 to get home ( was up off western 80 in Pa, and an accident took me way out of the way up in mnts, where I had no idea how to get back to highway). Made it home well in time for Superbowl parties. This was the trip. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Jackson+Township,+New+Jersey/Ridgway,+Pennsylvania+15853/@41.2185881,-78.8014936,11z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c17a5688db20f5:0xc4f28bd99288a399!2m2!1d-74.3587473!2d40.0918895!1m5!1m1!1s0x89cd016c7de19477:0x1dd156c095d4c8a5!2m2!1d-78.7286388!2d41.4203391!3e0 With detours from accident due to 4 inch of unforcast snow when I got there, close to 700 miles. I was HAULING in my Fusion Sport, (once past NE extension) and it was cold. Whats the range that day of even a model S @ 90 in those temps? Of course I don't do that trip all the time, but when you gotta go, you gotta go. Come on, you can't leave us hanging like that! Did you buy the Bronc or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: And that is the sweet spot for high volume BEV sales. Most buyers are not going to want to stop and charge or find an overnight charger at their destination. I would buy a 300 mile range BEV for my vehicle but not as our only vehicle used for long trips. Just not willing to do it right now and that's where Plug in Hybrids make a lot of sense. Best of both worlds. The question is how many buyers beyond those already buying Teslas would be willing to have only a 300-400 mile range BEV. I think it's a lot lower than some people think especially in cold weather states but that's just my opinion. Tesla has stated that they cannot meet demand with current production and are building a gigafactory in Europe to supply Europe. In Europe, the move to EV is happening at a quicker pace because of EU regulations and the range anxiety is just not there because the major oil companies have bought the charger networks and are rapidly expanding them. In the US only Tesla and VW have rapid charger networks and the major oil companies are not involved yet. IMO, Tesla sales in 2019 and 2020 may total close to 1MM cars. Would they get involved when one company sells 1MM EVs? Edited March 5, 2020 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, mlhm5 said: Tesla has stated that they cannot meet demand with current production and are building a gigafactory in Europe to supply Europe. You may want to change your tune. Listen to Autoline Daily from a few days back. Tesla sales in Europe appear to be very weak. Go to the 2:05 mark: http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=66356 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 47 minutes ago, mackinaw said: You may want to change your tune. Listen to Autoline Daily from a few days back. Tesla sales in Europe appear to be very weak. Go to the 2:05 mark: http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=66356 Well really low production with just low demand would mean they cant keep up with demand lol. Que the google searching, charts, links and pictures in 5..4..3..2.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Can we get an additional folder (sub forum) for anything Tesla related? Any time Tesla is written it should automatically go into a sub forum. I'd like not to be inundated with the RPerez and mlhm5 Tesla/Musk hob knob athon. mlhm5 has been angry at Ford forever and he's just trolling any way he can. It's just getting old. I am all for disagreeing views that can be discussed civilly but it's like groundhogs day here. Tesla is great followed by some speculative article with a lot of BS. All other automakers are behind followed by another speculative article. Trolling commences. Rinse repeat. Edited March 5, 2020 by jcartwright99 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: Can we get an additional folder (sub forum) for anything Tesla related? Any time Tesla is written it should automatically go into a sub forum. I'd like not to be inundated with the RPerez and mlhm5 Tesla/Musk hob knob athon. mlhm5 has been angry at Ford forever and he's just trolling any way he can. It's just getting old. I am all for disagreeing views that can be discussed civilly but it's like groundhogs day here. Tesla is great followed by some speculative article with a lot of BS. All other automakers are behind followed by another speculative article. Trolling commences. Rinse repeat. Don't forget 18 random charts per post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, rmc523 said: Don't forget 18 random charts per post. True with zero context or any sort of documentation on where those numbers came from (or were made up from). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I'm putting mlhm5 on troll watch. Relevant posts about Tesla are fine but this is borderline trolling and if it continues somebody will get a vacation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, akirby said: I'm putting mlhm5 on troll watch. Relevant posts about Tesla are fine but this is borderline trolling and if it continues somebody will get a vacation. Rather unemployed then a vacation... vacations are guaranteed to be temporary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Flying68 said: However I will say that we will strongly look at replacing our MkC in a few years with a BEV, because we don't take it on long trips and a 300 mi range would make it possible to do those shorter trips without needing to charge. BEV's currently make great second or third cars (and for many they work fine as first cars as well), and their capabilities continue to improve. They are still a bit pricey, but in a couple of years Lincoln is coming out with a mid-sized BEV crossover that might fit your bill nicely. It will be a cousin to the Ford BEV crossover being developed in tandem. I'm not talking about the larger, earlier, and more expensive Lincoln BEV SUV designed on top of the Rivian skateboard, which will be a Lincoln exclusive. That one might arrive as early as next year sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: Rather unemployed then a vacation... vacations are guaranteed to be temporary. It makes it easier to ban them when they don't comply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: BEV's currently make great second or third cars (and for many they work fine as first cars as well), and their capabilities continue to improve. They are still a bit pricey, but in a couple of years Lincoln is coming out with a mid-sized BEV crossover that might fit your bill nicely. It will be a cousin to the Ford BEV crossover being developed in tandem. I'm not talking about the larger, earlier, and more expensive Lincoln BEV SUV designed on top of the Rivian skateboard, which will be a Lincoln exclusive. That one might arrive as early as next year sometime. We would consider either a Mach-E or what we would assume to be a Lincoln branded sibling. The MkC will be a little small for us in a few years anyway, it is fine now, but there isn't enough legroom in the 2nd row now for my 12 year old to sit behind me when I drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 As this is a Model Y specific thread, has anybody figured out what size of human could actually fit in a 3rd row in that thing? From all the pictures I have seen, it would seem putting 5 in would be a stretch, getting 7 in would be unthinkable from the way it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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