3-Row SUV Comparison Test: Kia Telluride vs. Toyota Highlander vs. Ford Explorer and Six Others

[Black Label]

I had a rental Telluride back in January, I think it was, down in Fort Worth. All I can say is, I would never buy one. I'd buy 10 Explorers first. 

 

Telluride has exterior nice looks but that's about it. Not nearly as quick or responsive as an EcoBoost Ford. Not very ergonomic. Cheap quality materials, etc.  

[rperez817]

18 minutes ago, Black Label said:

I had a rental Telluride back in January, I think it was, down in Fort Worth. All I can say is, I would never buy one. I'd buy 10 Explorers first. 

 

Telluride has exterior nice looks but that's about it. Not nearly as quick or responsive as an EcoBoost Ford. Not very ergonomic. Cheap quality materials, etc.  

 

From what you remember, was your rental Kia Telluride an LX model (photo below)? Most Tellurides tested by professional reviewers have been higher trims, such as the SX model in Motor Trend's comparison test. But even the base Telluride LX should have better quality materials and fit & finish than base model Explorer or Traverse.

 

[dlghtjr90]

40 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good points akirby sir, I agree that the adjustment may not be enough. The FAQ is from 2014 or 2015. I wonder if the EPA finally switched to using E10 for their testing by now?

 

There is supposed to be a move to switch from 98 RON E0 to 91 RON E10 which was supposed to be as early as 2023, but that is looking unlikely. 'By the end of this decade' is about as specific as it can get for now.

 

The big changes were for 2017 and 2008, but nothing regarding using E10. (https://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/basic-information-fuel-economy-labeling)

[Black Label]

47 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

From what you remember, was your rental Kia Telluride an LX model (photo below)? Most Tellurides tested by professional reviewers have been higher trims, such as the SX model in Motor Trend's comparison test. But even the base Telluride LX should have better quality materials and fit & finish than base model Explorer or Traverse.

 

No idea on that except that most rentals are base models. 

 

I don't know, I'm a Ford/Lincoln guy, and if it comes down to it, GM guy. Just not a fan of Korean, etc. made vehicles. All subjective. I think the reviewers have an axe to grind with Ford. I am sure, without scouring this forum going way back, that many would agree and disagree with that take and that it has been debated. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Black Label
Grammar errors

[rmc523]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

What I've found is that ecoboost engines tend to have a wider range of "real world" mpg based on how they're driven.   Whereas a NA V6 might range from 18-22 the 2.3LEB might range from 16-24 depending on how it's driven.  Drive it hard and don't coast and don't use auto stop start and you might be at 16.   Drive it easy, coast a lot, keep the speed down and use auto stop/start and you can get 24.  With my 2018 F150 3.5Leb I can easily meet or exceed the EPA ratings.

 

Don't forget the EPA ratings are done with pure gasoline instead of E-10 (which I think is stupid because it's hard to find E-0 and it's way more expensive).   That's probably 1 mpg right there.

 

I know I had like a 3 mpg difference when I borrowed my mom's ST one week for work.  I did one day in "Eco" mode driving/accelerating slowly, maxing out at 70, etc.   One day was in Sport mode driving more normal/quicker accelerating, etc.  I don't recall the exact numbers but I do remember it being a 3 mpg difference.

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

What I've found is that ecoboost engines tend to have a wider range of "real world" mpg based on how they're driven.   Whereas a NA V6 might range from 18-22 the 2.3LEB might range from 16-24 depending on how it's driven.  Drive it hard and don't coast and don't use auto stop start and you might be at 16.   Drive it easy, coast a lot, keep the speed down and use auto stop/start and you can get 24.  With my 2018 F150 3.5Leb I can easily meet or exceed the EPA ratings.

 

Don't forget the EPA ratings are done with pure gasoline instead of E-10 (which I think is stupid because it's hard to find E-0 and it's way more expensive).   That's probably 1 mpg right there.

In my experience having currently owned a Fusion with the 2.5 NA and having a Fusion Rental  with the 1.5EB for a decent length of time while mine was in the shop for a second time I found it's a LOT easier to hit the advertised MPG on the  window sticker with the EcoBoost engines than it is with the NA engines. I struggle to hit the same mileage I was getting with the EcoBoost in day to day driving. 
 

In would imagine the same goes for my Flex. I haven't driven one with the 3.5EB but I'm averaging slightly lower than the advertised mileage on the window sticker with the 3.5NA mine has. Granted, I haven't driven it yet with summer blend gas yet so maybe it will get a little better. Also my wife drives that one a little more than I do (definitely more than the Fusion since we got the Flex) and she tends to me a little more aggressive with the throttle than I am. 
 

When I had that Escape rental (1.5EB) for most of last summer I was averaging close to 3.5 mpg MORE than the advertised combined city/highway mileage. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[dlghtjr90]

31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

In my experience having currently owned a Fusion with the 2.5 NA and having a Fusion Rental  with the 1.5EB for a decent length of time while mine was in the shop for a second time I found it's a LOT easier to hit the advertised MPG on the  window sticker with the EcoBoost engines than it is with the NA engines. I struggle to hit the same mileage I was getting with the EcoBoost in day to day driving. 
 

In would imagine the same goes for my Flex. I haven't driven one with the 3.5EB but I'm averaging slightly lower than the advertised mileage on the window sticker with the 3.5NA mine has. Granted, I haven't driven it yet with summer blend gas yet so maybe it will get a little better. Also my wife drives that one a little more than I do (definitely more than the Fusion since we got the Flex) and she tends to me a little more aggressive with the throttle than I am. 
 

When I had that Escape rental (1.5EB) for most of last summer I was averaging close to 3.5 mpg MORE than the advertised combined city/highway mileage. 

 

Yep with my 2.5L Fusion I'm seeing about 2 mpg difference between summer and winter and about 4 mpg difference for the 1.5L EB.

 

Small-displacement turbos are sensitive and your mileage will (seriously) vary, simply put.

 

By the way, I've looked up the fuel economy labels for the 3.3L TiVCT for the fleet and it is only rated at 16/23/19. I don't know if Ford took out some critical FE contents because it's not for retail, but I guess this would be downright uncompetitive with the players out there. Maybe it still nets 19.8 mpg on M/T test loop. ?

[CKNSLS]

On 3/25/2020 at 4:48 PM, tbone said:

That’s an arbitrary statement based on no date to support it.  

 

Other than the stock price and sales of the F150 - and no other product produced by Ford even comes close to the sales volume. If your basically a "one product company" it has a possibility to be clouded future.

[CKNSLS]

On 3/24/2020 at 7:54 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

You do realize that the Explorer sold 51K units (yes down from 61K the year before that) to the combined total of the Kia and Hyundai models of 34K units, with the Teluride making up 19K units in the 4th Quarter of last year?

 

And the sales will continue to go sideways (it's the price) on the Explorer while the Korean twins are still ramping up.  Don't know about elsewhere but around here the inventory is still slim on the Telluride.

[silvrsvt]

7 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

 

And the sales will continue to go sideways (it's the price) on the Explorer while the Korean twins are still ramping up.  Don't know about elsewhere but around here the inventory is still slim on the Telluride.

So your expectation is that Telluride and Palisades are going to double in sales Over the next year, even with all the other competition in the market place? Talk about having high expectations with zero to back it up. 

[theoldwizard]

I might be interested in an Explorer if there was a 3rd row DELETE !

[akirby]

9 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

 

And the sales will continue to go sideways (it's the price) on the Explorer while the Korean twins are still ramping up.  Don't know about elsewhere but around here the inventory is still slim on the Telluride.

I guarantee Ford is making more on 50k explorers than the Koreans are making on 150k units.  They’re buying market share but not profits.

 

I think Ford is quite content with lower volume and higher profit margins provided sales are decent. 
 

Remember GM was #1 in sales when they went bankrupt.

[rperez817]

57 minutes ago, akirby said:

Remember GM was #1 in sales when they went bankrupt.

 

Actually, Toyota was #1 in sales the year GM filed for bankruptcy (2009), as well as the year prior.

[rperez817]

11 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

 Don't know about elsewhere but around here the inventory is still slim on the Telluride.

 

Demand for Kia Telluride is very strong and exceeds supply throughout the U.S, and one reason Kia as a brand only had about 40 days of inventory last month (60 is considered ideal). Telluride is among the fastest selling models from any automaker. KMMG, the plant that assembles Telluride, was the last U.S. light vehicle assembly plant to officially announce suspended production due to Covid-19 which it did on March 24. KMMG will be down between March 30 and April 13. https://www.kmmgusa.com/kia-motors-manufacturing-georgia-to-suspend-production-march-30/

 

My local dealership, Moritz Kia in Fort Worth has fewer than 20 new Tellurides available for sale, out of 330+ new vehicles total. There are more Kia Stingers in their new car inventory than Tellurides!

[fuzzymoomoo]

46 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Actually, Toyota was #1 in sales the year GM filed for bankruptcy (2009), as well as the year prior.

[rperez817]

4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

No sir, the point is that the statement "Remember GM was #1 in sales when they went bankrupt" is false.

[fordmantpw]

15 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir, the point is that the statement "Remember GM was #1 in sales when they went bankrupt" is false.

 

The point is that having a lot of sales does not mean you have a lot of profit.  Should the statement be amended to say "GM was near the top of sales when they went bankrupt?"  I mean, does that really change the overall meaning?

[akirby]

3 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir, the point is that the statement "Remember GM was #1 in sales when they went bankrupt" is false.

 

 

Sorry.  I should have said the were #1 in sales in 2007 and #2 when they declared bankruptcy.

 

Point remains exactly the same.  8 million u it sales but losing money like crazy.

[dlghtjr90]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I guarantee Ford is making more on 50k explorers than the Koreans are making on 150k units.  They’re buying market share but not profits.

 

I think Ford is quite content with lower volume and higher profit margins provided sales are decent. 
 

Remember GM was #1 in sales when they went bankrupt.

 

This I hope it's true. What I'm not sure if Ford expected to sell only 51k units even with some $~3.5k worth of incentives already on the hood.

If anything, I am reading about dealer markups on Telluride (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/texas-dealerships-offer-2020-kia-telluride-with-5000-markup-141759.html) so it makes me wonder if we're also losing on profits.

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

This I hope it's true. What I'm not sure if Ford expected to sell only 51k units even with some $~3.5k worth of incentives already on the hood.

If anything, I am reading about dealer markups on Telluride (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/texas-dealerships-offer-2020-kia-telluride-with-5000-markup-141759.html) so it makes me wonder if we're also losing on profits.

That was 51k retail sales only.  Fleet sales haven’t kicked in yet,  If sales drop too much it’s bad but a small drop is ok if ATPs are higher.

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, theoldwizard said:

I might be interested in an Explorer if there was a 3rd row DELETE !

 

you can just leave the 3rd row down? 

[MKX1960]

14 hours ago, theoldwizard said:

I might be interested in an Explorer if there was a 3rd row DELETE !

Push the button in the cargo area and the 3rd seat gets deleted.?

[tbone]

On 3/27/2020 at 11:44 PM, CKNSLS said:

 

Other than the stock price and sales of the F150 - and no other product produced by Ford even comes close to the sales volume. If your basically a "one product company" it has a possibility to be clouded future.

I guess we will find out soon enough how it’ll works out won’t we. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

19 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

you can just leave the 3rd row down? 

That's what I do

 

 

Until September 

[rperez817]

Motor Trend wrote a follow-up article comparing the 3 best selling vehicles among the 9 tested. Highlander vs Pilot vs Explorer. https://www.motortrend.com/news/honda-pilot-ford-explorer-toyota-highlander-3-row-suv-comparison-test/

 

" Two of the three top-selling 3-row SUVs—the

Ford Explorer and Toyota Highlander—are all-new for 2020. Honda's third-gen Pilot has been around since 2016 but remains very competitive. Combined, these three family "trucksters" accounted for more than a half-million sales last year. We asked each manufacturer to send us an example that didn't exceed a $50,000 as-tested price. We've already determined which 3-row SUV is the best of all in our 3-row SUV Big Test, but let's see how things shake out amongst these three best-sellers."