dlghtjr90 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Motor Trend wrote a follow-up article comparing the 3 best selling vehicles among the 9 tested. Highlander vs Pilot vs Explorer. https://www.motortrend.com/news/honda-pilot-ford-explorer-toyota-highlander-3-row-suv-comparison-test/ Wow, I know there was another earlier review that compared Explorer vs. Pilot, but this takes it to another level by slamming us on almost every attribute. I thought at least we got something going with our advanced safety systems - it has fewer false-positives, gives a close gap with the vehicle in front when the ACC is activated, and the acceleration when you want to go up to whatever designated speed is pretty reasonable and natural. They're saying the lane-centering is not very predictable, but does Honda or Toyota have it at all? Oh well, the comments are what they are for now, but I think this is perhaps a bit harsher than what I would've liked to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 On 3/29/2020 at 9:38 AM, fuzzymoomoo said: On 3/28/2020 at 1:58 PM, rmc523 said: you can just leave the 3rd row down? That's what I do So I should pay for something that I am likely NEVER going to use ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, theoldwizard said: So I should pay for something that I am likely NEVER going to use ? If that's your logic, why do you need an Explorer? Couldn't you get by with an Edge? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: If that's your logic, why do you need an Explorer? Couldn't you get by with an Edge? Maybe he really likes the overall Explorer look. But, I doubt any manufacturer offers to delete the third row seats as an option. Seems if one wants the kind of cargo room afforded small and large SUVs, you are going to have a 3rd row. Could always just get a pickup too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 hours ago, theoldwizard said: So I should pay for something that I am likely NEVER going to use ? Then get an Edge? No third row. Or just put Explorer's 3rd row down. I appreciate your posts over the years, as they've always been informative, but complaining about Explorer not having a third row delete (something it's not had for over a decade now) seems dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 11 hours ago, Black Label said: Maybe he really likes the overall Explorer look. But, I doubt any manufacturer offers to delete the third row seats as an option. Seems if one wants the kind of cargo room afforded small and large SUVs, you are going to have a 3rd row. Could always just get a pickup too. You can delete the 3rd row in the Expedition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, tbone said: You can delete the 3rd row in the Expedition. ? Wow, really? I had no idea. First I ever heard of that, and I don't see it in the brochure or anything, but, okay. Edit: I found the Order Guide on this site. I see the XL trim, fleet only, does not have the 3rd row standard, it appears. Is that what you meant? I don't see in there where you can delete the 3rd row. Edited April 1, 2020 by Black Label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 19 hours ago, Black Label said: ? Wow, really? I had no idea. First I ever heard of that, and I don't see it in the brochure or anything, but, okay. Edit: I found the Order Guide on this site. I see the XL trim, fleet only, does not have the 3rd row standard, it appears. Is that what you meant? I don't see in there where you can delete the 3rd row. Yes correct, I should have been more clear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, tbone said: Yes correct, I should have been more clear. No worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) On 3/31/2020 at 12:03 PM, Black Label said: Maybe he really likes the overall Explorer look. But, I doubt any manufacturer offers to delete the third row seats as an option. Seems if one wants the kind of cargo room afforded small and large SUVs, you are going to have a 3rd row. Could always just get a pickup too. When I was looking to buy a Range Rover Velar a year and a half ago (before I ended up going with the Nautilus), I understood that the larger Range Rover Sport could be ordered configured either with or without the 3rd row. And I think the original full fat Range Rover as well, though less sure about that... Edited April 2, 2020 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 It's a much bigger deal if the 3rd row doesn't fold nearly flat. On our 99 Expedition you had to remove and store the 3rd row seat and that was a PITA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 4/2/2020 at 3:33 PM, Gurgeh said: When I was looking to buy a Range Rover Velar a year and a half ago (before I ended up going with the Nautilus), I understood that the larger Range Rover Sport could be ordered configured either with or without the 3rd row. And I think the original full fat Range Rover as well, though less sure about that... I don't think the Range Rover offers a 3rd row (or maybe it does now, not sure - I know it didn't used to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, rmc523 said: I don't think the Range Rover offers a 3rd row (or maybe it does now, not sure - I know it didn't used to). Just checked, and you're right. The original large "full fat" Range Rover doesn't have a 3rd row option, which kind of surprises me. However, I remembered right about the Range Rover Sport, which falls in size mid-way between the full fat and Velar. From a dealer's website: LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER SPORT The Land Rover Range Rover Sport comes standard with seating for five passengers, but you have the option of tacking on a third row to increase the seating capacity to seven. On top of that, you’ll enjoy a max cargo capacity of 62.2 cubic feet Edited April 4, 2020 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 3:06 PM, CKNSLS said: I look for the Korean twins (combined) to outsell the Explorer. I also have already made my feelings known on the Escape-it's a miss as well. There is every indication in the long -term picture Ford is in trouble. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hyundai-motor-america-reports-march-and-q1-2020-sales-301033188.html Palisade 1st quarter sales 17,089 Explorer 56,310 Haven't seen anything on Kia yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Haven't seen anything on Kia yet. Kia Telluride 1Q 2020 U.S. sales totaled 16,826. https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/media/pressreleases/16029/kia-motors-america-announces-march-sales-1 Edited April 10, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlghtjr90 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 One could argue it's no big deal because Explorer sales are above Palisade and Telluride. But do note the Camry took 15 years since it was first introduced in 1982 to become the best-selling sedan in 1997 even though it was a sound car throughout. My take is when the Palisade & Telluride sales are over 50% of what Explorer sells, including stories about dealer markups, is a serious threat considering Hyundai/Kia had essentially no brand recognition in 3rd-row SUV segment. Perhaps Explorer sales will always be above them since Explorer has its own strong brand recognition, but this can erode over time when it is a lesser vehicle than the competitors, including getting shamed by C&D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said: Perhaps Explorer sales will always be above them since Explorer has its own strong brand recognition, but this can erode over time when it is a lesser vehicle than the competitors Well said dlghtjr90 sir. The Explorer name has been very strong in terms of brand recognition. That's the Explorer's biggest selling point. But erosion of that brand recognition is a very real risk. The Explorer name endured nearly a decade being stuck on an uncompetitive vehicle that was little more than a refreshed Ford Taurus X, based on a Volvo passenger car platform from the 1990s. More recently, Ford completely screwed up the launch of the new 2020 model. How much longer can this stuff go on before the Explorer name is ruined permanently, like what happened with Ford's U.S. passenger car nameplates other than Mustang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: The Explorer name endured nearly a decade being stuck on an uncompetitive vehicle that was little more than a refreshed Ford Taurus X, based on a Volvo passenger car platform from the 1990s. You're just full of BS lately. That "refreshed Ford Taurus X" got Explorer back on track after people stopped buying BOF SUVs. Sales tripled the old model in 2013. In September 2018 it was #2 in sales only a few hundred behind Highlander. I'd venture to bet it was #1 or very close to #1 for the entire decade. That is the opposite of uncompetitive. Take your fake news elsewhere. Edited April 10, 2020 by akirby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 3 hours ago, dlghtjr90 said: One could argue it's no big deal because Explorer sales are above Palisade and Telluride. But do note the Camry took 15 years since it was first introduced in 1982 to become the best-selling sedan in 1997 even though it was a sound car throughout. My take is when the Palisade & Telluride sales are over 50% of what Explorer sells, including stories about dealer markups, is a serious threat considering Hyundai/Kia had essentially no brand recognition in 3rd-row SUV segment. Perhaps Explorer sales will always be above them since Explorer has its own strong brand recognition, but this can erode over time when it is a lesser vehicle than the competitors, including getting shamed by C&D. Is this what you think will happen or what you want to happen? I don't see the quality in Kia or Hyundai right now. For all those who are complaining about the Explorer being low rent and pricey, I don't see the Explorer overheating and grenading their transmissions. Maybe Kia/Hyundai should of spent more time on the powertrain engineering than a fancy interior? Sales and quality issues will be something to watch going forward. It will be interesting to see if consumers think the Explorers are as bad as the reviewers say and the Korean twins are really made of gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: I don't see the quality in Kia or Hyundai right now. People who own Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis vehicles do. They all have well deserved reputation for high quality. Those 3 brands had the highest scores in J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey in 2019. Don't know how the rankings will play out for 2020, but Hyundai Motor Group has been able to introduce new and redesigned models that do well in quality and reliability surveys in the 1st model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 59 minutes ago, akirby said: Sales tripled the old model in 2013. That's compared to 2009 or 2010, right after Great Recession decimated new car and light truck sales overall. Not a meaningful comparison. Except for calendar year 1990 (Explorer was introduced in March 1990 for 1991 model year), U.S. sales figures for FWD Taurus X based Explorer never reached the levels achieved by 1st generation Explorer. Calendar year Explorer (US) 1990 140,509 1991 282,837 1992 292,069 1993 301,668 1994 278,065 1995 395,227 1996 402,663 1997 383,852 1998 431,488 1999 428,772 2000 445,157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, rperez817 said: People who own Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis vehicles do. They all have well deserved reputation for high quality. Those 3 brands had the highest scores in J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey in 2019. Don't know how the rankings will play out for 2020, but Hyundai Motor Group has been able to introduce new and redesigned models that do well in quality and reliability surveys in the 1st model year. Is that all you got? Let's see how they do for 2020. I also don't take much stock in JD Power surveys. Once you understand how statistics can be manipulated, these types of survey based QC reports that are for sale become less and less valuable. JD Power and Consumer reports do a good job of marketing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: Is that all you got? Let's see how they do for 2020. J.D. Power usually releases U.S. IQS results in June. I agree with you jcartwright99 sir, let's wait until then to see how brands and specific models do for the 2020 model year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 IQS is more about dealer prep than manufacturing quality. VDS is a much better indicator of quality But I don't think the Koreans are any worse than Ford quality wise right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Explorer sales dropped from 445k in 2000 all the way to 137K in 2007 - before the recession hit overall sales. People shifted away from BOF SUVs and moved to crossovers. Fake news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.