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Escape Hybrid Notes.


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9 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


Explorer PIH is Export only at this this point. PIH Escape should be out in the next few months, however it will be FWD only. 


I knew they’re were exporting Explorer PiH but not selling it here.  I was disappointed since I was considering one.

 

We’ll be looking at a Corsair GT or the new Nautilus in a couple of years.

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4 minutes ago, akirby said:


Agreed.  But the fuel economy on the hybrid and PHEV range are a little disappointing.

 

As for the Explorer, it's probably because 3.3L TiVCT shared in the base F-150 was never meant to be a fueler. 18/23/20 for the 3.3L F-150 4WD and even worse 16/23/19 for the 3.3L Explorer which is bit odd.

Getting that 19 combined label mpg up to 25 mpg with the HEV is impressive enough, but like you said, a little disappointing overall.

 

The Lincoln PHEV is based on 3.0L GTDI, which is also not stellar for fuel. What I'm more confused is considering 3.3L TiVCT (Cyclone) and 3.0L GTDI (Nano) are different engine families, why Ford chose the former for the FHEV and the latter for the PHEV which sounds unnecessarily complex.

 

Thankfully all Escape xHEV's are based on 2.5L so that's one less complication. Is this the engine that goes all the way back to CD338 Fusion?

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5 minutes ago, akirby said:


But the fuel economy on the hybrid and PHEV range are a little disappointing.

 

It's disappointing in other aspects too like smoothness/refinement and performance. Ford probably designed this P2 hybrid powertrain for regulatory compliance (CAFE) more than anything else.

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5 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

Thankfully all Escape xHEV's are based on 2.5L so that's one less complication. Is this the engine that goes all the way back to CD338 Fusion?

 

Yes sir dlghtjr90, the 2.5L engine in 2020 Escape xHEV is an updated version of the Mazda L5 engine that first came out in 2008. The power-split eCVT transmission in that vehicle is also a refinement of the Aisin design used in previous generation Escape Hybrid models.

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8 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

As for the Explorer, it's probably because 3.3L TiVCT shared in the base F-150 was never meant to be a fueler. 18/23/20 for the 3.3L F-150 4WD and even worse 16/23/19 for the 3.3L Explorer which is bit odd.

Getting that 19 combined label mpg up to 25 mpg with the HEV is impressive enough, but like you said, a little disappointing overall.

 

The Lincoln PHEV is based on 3.0L GTDI, which is also not stellar for fuel. What I'm more confused is considering 3.3L TiVCT (Cyclone) and 3.0L GTDI (Nano) are different engine families, why Ford chose the former for the FHEV and the latter for the PHEV which sounds unnecessarily complex.

 

Thankfully all Escape xHEV's are based on 2.5L so that's one less complication. Is this the engine that goes all the way back to CD338 Fusion?


Yes it’s the same engine as the Gen 1 fusion hybrid.

 

Im guessing ecoboost engines don’t lend themselves to max mpg hybrid applications.  Plus the 3.3 Powertrain was readily available from f150.

 

maybe we’ll see more options in the next couple of years.

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2 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir dlghtjr90, the 2.5L engine in 2020 Escape xHEV is an updated version of the Mazda L5 engine that first came out in 2008. The power-split eCVT transmission in that vehicle is also a refinement of the Aisin design used in previous generation Escape Hybrid models.

 

I hate to admit it, but it seems like the only fuel-efficient and/or fuel-robust engines in Ford vehicles are Mazda-derived. The 2.3L GTDI in the Explorer is also originally the Mazda L engine.

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4 hours ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

I hate to admit it, but it seems like the only fuel-efficient and/or fuel-robust engines in Ford vehicles are Mazda-derived. The 2.3L GTDI in the Explorer is also originally the Mazda L engine.

Except that it's  not Mazda derived, it shares the same capacity and bore span but everything else is different.

 

The original shared engines you're referring to were actually co-developed by Ford and Mazda.

I've spoken to a Ford engineer who was part of those projects and he confirmed that they were indeed co-developed.

 

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22 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I've spoken to a Ford engineer who was part of those projects and he confirmed that they were indeed co-developed.

 

Thank you jpd80 sir for sharing that detail from the Ford engineer. In any case, the Atkinson cycle version of the co-developed Ford/Mazda 2.5L engine works well with the power-split hybrid system in the 2020 Escape, and according to Car and Driver is actually quieter than the Toyota 2.5L Dynamic Force engine used in RAV4 Hybrid.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you jpd80 sir for sharing that detail from the Ford engineer. In any case, the Atkinson cycle version of the co-developed Ford/Mazda 2.5L engine works well with the power-split hybrid system in the 2020 Escape, and according to Car and Driver is actually quieter than the Toyota 2.5L Dynamic Force engine used in RAV4 Hybrid.

Seems to be an excellent power plant. I’m assuming it will be available in the Fusion Sportswagon and possibly the NG Edge.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you jpd80 sir for sharing that detail from the Ford engineer. In any case, the Atkinson cycle version of the co-developed Ford/Mazda 2.5L engine works well with the power-split hybrid system in the 2020 Escape, and according to Car and Driver is actually quieter than the Toyota 2.5L Dynamic Force engine used in RAV4 Hybrid.

The 2.5 seems to be a confirmation that the previous 2.0 hybrid system was underpowered,

the 2.5 PHEV needs to be made more available and less price restrictive.

 

Those are generous words from Car and Driver, it shows that Ford has done a good job with Escape

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If I was in the market for a new car, the Escape hybrid would be my first choice, considering I have a 2015 CMAX hybrid, which I absolutely love. I would have to say the 2.0L hybrid powertrain is far from underpowered as the new system provides a small increase in combined HP.  

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33 minutes ago, notquitesane said:

If I was in the market for a new car, the Escape hybrid would be my first choice, considering I have a 2015 CMAX hybrid, which I absolutely love. I would have to say the 2.0L hybrid powertrain is far from underpowered as the new system provides a small increase in combined HP.  

 

The new one is a 2.5L.

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On 3/31/2020 at 7:05 AM, notquitesane said:

I understand the new one is a 2.5 L. I was responding to the comment above saying the 2.0L was underpowered. I have one in my CMAX and don't think it is underpowered. The total combined hp of the 2.0L is 188hp and the standard hybrid 2.5L is 200 HP. A modest increase. 

All I said was that the 2.5 seems to be a confirmation that the 2.0 was underpowered, otherwise Ford would have kept using it, yes?

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4 minutes ago, probowler said:

What is a PIH?

Does it just have a larger battery than a traditional hybrid, and thus require plugin for a full-charge?

 

Yes.

 

It's a best of both worlds between a regular hybrid and all-electric car that you have both electric-only range (albeit only ~30 miles) and the ability to go the distance without having to charge for a couple of hours in between since you can gas instead. It has a plugin charger, but it will take significantly less time to charge than all-electric vehicle.

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3 minutes ago, probowler said:

What is a PIH?

Does it just have a larger battery than a traditional hybrid, and thus require plugin for a full-charge?

Plug in hybrid, normally abbreviated PHEV usually has a larger battery. Most have the ability to drive anywhere from 20-60 miles on battery power alone. The electric powertrain is more robust to allow higher speeds on full electric mode. A "normal" hybrid usually goes short distances on electric only, and at limited speeds. 2009 Escape could go to 40 mph. Having a hybrid, usually the indicator shows a partially charged state. For the PHEV the larger battery needs the plug to go to 80-100% charge state. 

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