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I mean if EVs become the new norm I'm sure there will be a solution to put a "charge station" in your driveway or curbside if you have street parking. Wasn't Ford partnering with someone to make that happen recently?  Doesn't take much to trench a hole for the feed line and put up some sort of junction box for a regular cord or even feed the higher volt charge stations.

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32 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

It’s not as convenient and in some cases a giant pain in the ass than going to a gas station. How can anyone refute that? 

 

It's super easy to refute that. It's much more convenient for the majority of households in this country that have garages, carports, or other off street parking to take 5-10 seconds a day to plug in and unplug than it is to stop for fuel. You wake up every morning to a "full tank".  Taking road trips is a different story for now, which is why I drive a gas powered car. I did just buy a Fusion hybrid.

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59 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

It's super easy to refute that. It's much more convenient for the majority of households in this country that have garages, carports, or other off street parking to take 5-10 seconds a day to plug in and unplug than it is to stop for fuel. You wake up every morning to a "full tank".  Taking road trips is a different story for now, which is why I drive a gas powered car. I did just buy a Fusion hybrid.


You can refute it but you’d be wrong. Logic eludes you. Roughly 60% percent of households in the US own their home. For the sake of this discussion, each homeowner can easily plug in their car (which isn’t the case). Also, everyone owns a car.
 

What about the remaining 40 percent? It’s either impossible or a giant pain in the ass to charge their car. Just because it’s easy for you doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone.

 

If some lives in an apartment building what are they going to do? Run an electrical cord out their window to where ever their car is parked? 

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7 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

If some lives in an apartment building what are they going to do? Run an electrical cord out their window to where ever their car is parked? 

 

There are many apartment dwellers who own an EV. Community and public charging options are usually sufficient for these owners. But if not, the tenant should talk to his landlord or property manager about dedicated EVSE options from a company like EverCharge. 

 

Here is a case study of what one apartment complex in Los Angeles did. https://evercharge.net/evercharge-case-study-3

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1 minute ago, rperez817 said:

 

There are many apartment dwellers who own an EV. Community and public charging options are usually sufficient for these owners. But if not, the tenant should talk to his landlord or property manager about dedicated EVSE options from a company like EverCharge. 

 

Here is a case study of what one apartment complex in Los Angeles did. https://evercharge.net/evercharge-case-study-3


I live in the city of Chicago. I can tell you that virtually all rentals, especially once you start moving away from city center, could care less about your electric car. There might be some but I’d probably put it at less than 1%. 
 

I would also say that most rentals don’t have parking spots so you are left to park on the street. Even if there was a public charger on every block (which there isn’t), are you going to get that spot when you need it?
 

Nobody saying it isn’t possible but that case study probably represents.0001% of property management.

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1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:


You can refute it but you’d be wrong. Logic eludes you. Roughly 60% percent of households in the US own their home. For the sake of this discussion, each homeowner can easily plug in their car (which isn’t the case). Also, everyone owns a car.
 

What about the remaining 40 percent? It’s either impossible or a giant pain in the ass to charge their car. Just because it’s easy for you doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone.

 

If some lives in an apartment building what are they going to do? Run an electrical cord out their window to where ever their car is parked? 

 

Back to my previous post about the anti-EV crowd bringing up the same tired talking points over and over and over again...

The actual breakdown of households in the US is something like 70% have off street parking, 22% don't(8% don't have a car). The 70% includes apartments and condos with their own parking. Installing chargers at those won't a big problem, many condo complexes already have them. Of course, in the here and now, there's not a big demand for chargers at rental properties. That will change. And if the local governments don't require them first, market forces will. And before you whine that's "unfair" to make ICE drivers pay for the chargers, there's people who never use the swimming pools, rec rooms, fitness centers, etc. that have to pay for those too. An access card or code would charge the electricity to the user.  For the 22%, obviously something will have to figured out. But that's above either one of our pay grades.

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24 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

Back to my previous post about the anti-EV crowd bringing up the same tired talking points over and over and over again...

The actual breakdown of households in the US is something like 70% have off street parking, 22% don't(8% don't have a car). The 70% includes apartments and condos with their own parking. Installing chargers at those won't a big problem, many condo complexes already have them. Of course, in the here and now, there's not a big demand for chargers at rental properties. That will change. And if the local governments don't require them first, market forces will. And before you whine that's "unfair" to make ICE drivers pay for the chargers, there's people who never use the swimming pools, rec rooms, fitness centers, etc. that have to pay for those too. An access card or code would charge the electricity to the user.  For the 22%, obviously something will have to figured out. But that's above either one of our pay grades.

Is it tired or legitimate? You spout a lot of things that can be “easily done” but are they done now? Nope. 
 

And by the way, I’m not a Luddite and anti electric. However, I’m in not going to lie and say compared to ICE there aren’t many compromises that you make. Until I can have at least an equivalent life of charging and driving range to ICE vehicles, then I’m not interested. I’m not the only person that feels this way.

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21 hours ago, AGR said:

 

In addition to the already-refuted talking points, some others will bring up situations that apply to 0.00001% of the population, like the above...

 

Seriously??  How often is there going to be an EV charge cord "frozen to the ground under a foot of snow"???

 

  Every time we get a storm that starts out above freezing, which yields a layer of slush, followed by snow and usually much colder temps. 

And if that's how you "refute",  I'll just keep ignoring you EV cultists that really don't have answers. 

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1 hour ago, AGR said:

 

Back to my previous post about the anti-EV crowd bringing up the same tired talking points over and over and over again...

The actual breakdown of households in the US is something like 70% have off street parking, 22% don't(8% don't have a car). The 70% includes apartments and condos with their own parking. Installing chargers at those won't a big problem, many condo complexes already have them. Of course, in the here and now, there's not a big demand for chargers at rental properties. That will change. And if the local governments don't require them first, market forces will. And before you whine that's "unfair" to make ICE drivers pay for the chargers, there's people who never use the swimming pools, rec rooms, fitness centers, etc. that have to pay for those too. An access card or code would charge the electricity to the user.  For the 22%, obviously something will have to figured out. But that's above either one of our pay grades.

 

  Off street parking, like my neighbors have?? They have 5 vehicles jammed into the end of the driveway (double wide, 3 and 2). 

With all EV's, now instead of just having to possibly move a car out of the way, they have to unplug, move cords, and replug in every 

time. What a nightmare that is going to be. This a typical family these days with 4 kids, upwards of 26, that just never move out

(you know the kids are going to constantly be running over these cords too, hope they are abrasion proof).  

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2 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

Is it tired or legitimate? You spout a lot of things that can be “easily done” but are they done now? Nope. 
 

And by the way, I’m not a Luddite and anti electric. However, I’m in not going to lie and say compared to ICE there aren’t many compromises that you make. Until I can have at least an equivalent life of charging and driving range to ICE vehicles, then I’m not interested. I’m not the only person that feels this way.

 

If you reread my post, you will see that I did say that there's not the demand right now for chargers in apartments...outside of Commiefornia of course. There's not enough cheap used EVs out there yet.

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1 hour ago, OX1 said:

 

  Every time we get a storm that starts out above freezing, which yields a layer of slush, followed by snow and usually much colder temps. 

And if that's how you "refute",  I'll just keep ignoring you EV cultists that really don't have answers. 

 

There's these things on TV, and for many of us, on our phones, called weather forecasts. I'm not a Mensa member, but I'm sure if I saw that such a storm were coming, I would go outside and pick up things such as an electrical cord

EV cultists, LOL.

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1 hour ago, OX1 said:

 

  Off street parking, like my neighbors have?? They have 5 vehicles jammed into the end of the driveway (double wide, 3 and 2). 

With all EV's, now instead of just having to possibly move a car out of the way, they have to unplug, move cords, and replug in every 

time. What a nightmare that is going to be. This a typical family these days with 4 kids, upwards of 26, that just never move out

(you know the kids are going to constantly be running over these cords too, hope they are abrasion proof).  

 

A typical family these days is more like two kids, but whatever.

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2 hours ago, OX1 said:

 Brand new condo complex they are stuffing in about 600 feet off the back of my property. 

I read through all the plans carefully, not one charger............

 

20180725_113254.jpg

 

The developer may call those "condos", but they look more like townhomes to me. The dark gray areas are probably driveways. The parking areas shown are not adequate for the number of units, they're no doubt overflow/guest parking. With parking right in front of the unit or even garages, using a heavy duty extension cord wouldn't much of an issue at all.

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4 hours ago, OX1 said:

 Brand new condo complex they are stuffing in about 600 feet off the back of my property. 

I read through all the plans carefully, not one charger............

 

20180725_113254.jpg

I would be more mad that they failed to interconnect to the other community to the north...

 

There is a stub out that they need to connect to. 

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The real answer is a greater adoption rate that will spur on more charging options.   Improved battery technology like Samsung's recent announcement will also help.  Ultimately it seems battery chargers for cars should become available and like propane tanks you can pick one up when needed or perhaps have a spare in the garage.     Setting standards that raises the average fleet aggressively doesn't puts the decision on which technology gets us there in the hands of the industry not the government.     Granted it looks like electric is the choice.    But all that means is that industry can further invest in new technologies to meet forecasted demand.     Under the week cafe standards these investments will not be made as quickly.   

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12 hours ago, AGR said:

 

It's super easy to refute that. It's much more convenient for the majority of households in this country that have garages, carports, or other off street parking to take 5-10 seconds a day to plug in and unplug than it is to stop for fuel. You wake up every morning to a "full tank".  Taking road trips is a different story for now, which is why I drive a gas powered car. I did just buy a Fusion hybrid.

I actually have to agree with this, we Alaskans plug in our engine heaters every day below 20 during the winter, as many other northern states probably do.

Super annoying, but not hard or time consuming.

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17 hours ago, AGR said:

 

There's these things on TV, and for many of us, on our phones, called weather forecasts. I'm not a Mensa member, but I'm sure if I saw that such a storm were coming, I would go outside and pick up things such as an electrical cord

EV cultists, LOL.

 

 So much for waking up to a full tank every day then. And that tank should be 80% right, not supposed to be charging to 100%, unless 

you somehow always know when you might be making a longer trip. Sad if you live your life around the limitations of a car, but if

you like it, so be it.  

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17 hours ago, AGR said:

 

The developer may call those "condos", but they look more like townhomes to me. The dark gray areas are probably driveways. The parking areas shown are not adequate for the number of units, they're no doubt overflow/guest parking. With parking right in front of the unit or even garages, using a heavy duty extension cord wouldn't much of an issue at all.

 

  100's and 100's of high voltage extension cords running all over sounds really safe. 

The fact you even suggest this easily puts you int he cultists category. 

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7 hours ago, OX1 said:

 

 So much for waking up to a full tank every day then. And that tank should be 80% right, not supposed to be charging to 100%, unless 

you somehow always know when you might be making a longer trip. Sad if you live your life around the limitations of a car, but if

you like it, so be it.  

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?? 

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11 minutes ago, snooter said:

Its not the voltage...its the amps that matter

Right.  I think most 220/240 volt charging systems recommend a 50 or 60 amp breaker.  I think some of the Tesla chargers need a bigger breaker than that.  
 

If anyone want to jump in and correct me, feel free.  This is NOT my area of expertise.  ?

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1 hour ago, CurtisH said:

120 volt? Really?  I thought charging was really slow at 120V.  I would want 220V.  And I would consider that high voltage. 

Right, 220V, AKA Level 2 is what you want for overnight charging, but that would something you would have in your garage. Many public chargers are Level 2 as well. But if you're going to "run a cord" as OX1 keeps talking about, you wouldn't want to use anything beyond a heavy duty 120V extension cord.

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