ANTAUS Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Autoblog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 It's been stated here that the Mustang hybrid would be a V8.........and even I suggested making it the Mach 1 would tie the two Machs together under the "electrification" banner. There does seem to be a lot of guess work on the timeline of the next gen cars though. The leaked VIN document indicates S650 is coming as a '23MY, although we still don't know if this is moving to CD6 or just being a reworked S550 platform. Most now seem to think the latter. That then ties into the rumors a year or so ago that an "all new" Mustang wasn't coming until about the '27/'28MY. Perhaps that makes sense now if a "true" CD6 Mustang isn't coming until an 8th generation car. Autocar's render.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Who says a reworked S550 and CD6 are different things? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 If this is indeed true, it will be a very popular vehicle up here in Alaska! People love them as is, and AWD will make it that much more attractive. Very cool if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: Who says a reworked S550 and CD6 are different things? I get where you're coming from........I'm sure there's a lot of S550 in CD6 (I recall one publication took a peek under the concept Aviator and said the rear suspension looked almost identical to the current S550). At what point though, does a reworked D2C/S550 become a CD6? I guess we'll only know "for sure" when the '23MY Mustang launches. Surely Ford would be proud to claim S650 is, effectively using the CD6 architecture? Otherwise all we'll have is internet conjecture as to what makes up its bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 From what I’ve gathered and seen, yes the S650 will be launching for the 2023MY and it’s expected to use the same platform (D2C) which is now called D5. This was done for substantial cost savings. As it is the program is still pretty expensive. But it’s expected to use many CD6 components. Again, apparently using all the CD6 components would’ve made it too big and too heavy. The S650 is basically a new top hat on the same platform with more CD6 components used. I’ve seen a sketch, and it’s not that far off from this article’s illustration. I will say the roofline drops 1 inch to make it even more swept back. It will be gorgeous I can assure you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 That's great info, thank you ExplorerDude...........and your description makes me excited to see S650. If it launches as a '23MY, I'm guessing we should see the first mules late this year/very early next? As it'll be very close to S550, I assume they could be hiding in plane sight by using the current production car (S197 to S550 was a bit more obvious in terms of trying to hide the new styling). With regards the chassis/architecture.......it'll be interesting to see if they continue to call it D5 (thank you for correcting me there) as I guess this means there are 6 (not 5) platforms/architectures going forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: From what I’ve gathered and seen, yes the S650 will be launching for the 2023MY and it’s expected to use the same platform (D2C) which is now called D5. This was done for substantial cost savings. As it is the program is still pretty expensive. But it’s expected to use many CD6 components. Again, apparently using all the CD6 components would’ve made it too big and too heavy. The S650 is basically a new top hat on the same platform with more CD6 components used. Wasn't the current gen Mustang using CD4 components to help keep costs down? I think since 2010 or so its been using CD components from the Fusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Twin Turbo said: With regards the chassis/architecture.......it'll be interesting to see if they continue to call it D5 (thank you for correcting me there) as I guess this means there are 6 (not 5) platforms/architectures going forwards It would still count as part of the RWD unibody architecture either way. Just like Ranger and Bronco and F series all count as BOF trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Wasn't the current gen Mustang using CD4 components to help keep costs down? I think since 2010 or so its been using CD components from the Fusion? Maybe the front suspension - macpherson struts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, akirby said: Maybe the front suspension - macpherson struts? Wiring harnesses also-stuff that you wouldn't see any wouldn't make any difference to the end user. Maybe @fuzzymoomoo can tell us more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) S550 and CD4 are already using the same production line so my guess is there is a pretty high degree of workflow alignment and parts sharing going on. The next gen which looks like it will be a heavy facelift of S550 and CD6 are probably on the same level of mutual compatibility even if they are not identical. You don't need to be one the same platform or architecture if you can get most of the value and benefit out of the assembly side and procurement side anyway. Like how Ford Europe and Asia have been able to build C1, C2, B1, EUCD, and CD4 vehicles all on the same assembly line. As long as next gen Mustang can get use the same drivetain package as CD6 and be assembled in an existing facility without a lot of new tooling, it stands to reason that you don't necessarily need to move platform just for the sake of commonality (that you already can achieve in practice anyway) The pay off on the common platform and architecture is if you need to redesign the vehicle very frequently or need to spawn a lot of derivatives. The common hard points means you can model and simulate a lot of crash safety and vehicle dynamics with high degree of accuracy so it cuts down on development costs. It also make drivetrain and other engineering less complex because you design to fit one vehicle, it will fit in ALL vehicles. Mustang is on a pretty long model cycle and Ford is not planning to build other vehicles off the Mustang platform so the need to move to CD6 is minimized. If Ford was going to put Mustang on a hard 5 year model cycle with a 3 year facelift then it pays to be on a common platform. As is, Mustang seems to be doing ok on a 5 year facelift and 10 year model cycle between complete redesigns. In theory, you want volume models like Focus and Escape to be a common platform so there is always a fresh version of the platform going into a production vehicle each year. That helps with cost amortization and continuous improvements. Minor improvements made for one model and be quickly added to others during midcycle facelift or redesign without breaking the bank. There is no reason for someone like Ford to redesign steering rack, HVAC system, or suspension on volume models everytime they redesign the car (but that was apparently what Ford was doing until fairly recenlty). Edited April 22, 2020 by bzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) That all makes sense. One thing though, seems S550 is going to last 8 years ('15MY to '22MY) with a pretty major facelift at the 4th model year ('18) and potentially a minor one for '21MY. I still think CD6 being limited to just Explorer/Aviator is a missed opportunity though. Ford finally has a decent RWD architecture that could have given us a magnificent all new Continental and potentially a Lincoln coupe. Lincoln design is on top form at the moment and it seems a shame to limit it to SUVs. But that's another subject for another day. Looking forward to seeing those first S650 mules and prototypes Edited April 23, 2020 by Twin Turbo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 If the Mustang continues on the same platform, and is restyled to look even more like a sports car than a musclecar, maybe we have a chance to get a Thunderbird and a Lincoln off the CD6 platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 45 minutes ago, Trailhiker said: If the Mustang continues on the same platform, and is restyled to look even more like a sports car than a musclecar, maybe we have a chance to get a Thunderbird and a Lincoln off the CD6 platform. And thunderbird becomes the new ford muscle car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 35 minutes ago, probowler said: And thunderbird becomes the new ford muscle car? I'm thinking they harken back to the 67 for inspiration. larger 2-door sedan styling with muscle car vibes and a more usable rear seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Twin Turbo said: I still think CD6 being limited to just Explorer/Aviator is a missed opportunity though. Ford finally has a decent RWD architecture that could have given us a magnificent all new Continental and potentially a Lincoln coupe. Lincoln design is on top form at the moment and it seems a shame to limit it to SUVs. But that's another subject for another day. It's definitely a missed opportunity for Lincoln but so are the new BEVs and PHEVs if they did the CD6 cars instead. It would be great if resources were unlimited and they could do all of those at the same time, but that's not reality. They were on the drawing board and they might return down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 hours ago, akirby said: It's definitely a missed opportunity for Lincoln but so are the new BEVs and PHEVs if they did the CD6 cars instead. It would be great if resources were unlimited and they could do all of those at the same time, but that's not reality. They were on the drawing board and they might return down the road. In theory, Ford can still make multiple SUVs off CD6 so depends on how the market evolves, we may still see the potential of CD6 come to full fruition. But I think CD6 sedan is probably a lost cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I just wonder if Ford would have been better off, at least financially, putting Explorer on a stretched CD4 platform instead of going to the expense of the separate RWD platform. Hopefully the Aviator is profitable enough for CD6 to have been worth the effort. There's just no market for a new Thunderbird or Continental. Ford wouldn't sell more than 5000 Thunderbirds a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) CD4 (or rather C2 since CD4 is being phased out) for Explorer wouldn't make any sense because Ford wouldn't be able to use any of the longitude drivetrains that F-150 and Transit (the two most profitable vehicles that Ford sells) are paying for. That was the whole point for switching CD6 to longitude engine. RWD is just a by product in order to use the 10 speed auto and the hybrid system that come with it. Ford has huge volumes of longitude vehicles on a worldwide basis (F-150, T6, Transit, Mustang, and now CD6) so something as large as Explorer makes sense to be part of that matrix rather than the transverse engine C2 that are optimized to use things like 1.0 and 1.5 EB I3. Edited April 23, 2020 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 On 4/23/2020 at 2:39 AM, Twin Turbo said: That all makes sense. One thing though, seems S550 is going to last 8 years ('15MY to '22MY) with a pretty major facelift at the 4th model year ('18) and potentially a minor one for '21MY. I still think CD6 being limited to just Explorer/Aviator is a missed opportunity though. Ford finally has a decent RWD architecture that could have given us a magnificent all new Continental and potentially a Lincoln coupe. Lincoln design is on top form at the moment and it seems a shame to limit it to SUVs. But that's another subject for another day. Looking forward to seeing those first S650 mules and prototypes While I agree to a degree, you could also look at it this way: Their choice was A) Large CD6 Lincolns - OR - B) Large BEV Lincolns. They put option A on the back burner for option B. I think had there been no BEV movement, we'd have seen a stable of CD6 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: I think had there been no BEV movement, we'd have seen a stable of CD6 models. They were already in planning if not already in development before being put on hold. This is clearly a case or prioritization. Once the BEVs and PHEVs are done they might resume development. Seems like a good way to fill up FRAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 my only fear of this hybrid Mustang is the dreaded curb weight penalty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, Deanh said: my only fear of this hybrid Mustang is the dreaded curb weight penalty... That would definitely hurt the handling the most. As far as fuel economy, the hybrid offsets the weight and then some. I also think it would make the car a bit faster, but probably not very noticeably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I still wonder if this rendering was "planted". It was on the website that showed the Mach E renderings........the designs that made it and those that didn't.......go to "Sketches" and it's half way down the page. http://mustang-mach-e.fordpresskits.com/?p=pictures It definitely says "Mach E" on the title, but Mach E was never going to be a 2-door coupe and that's definitely what this sketch is. Open the grille (as opposed to the blanked off EV version) and that would make a nice S650. Its not that far from the current S550 design. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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