No Escape ST planned

[T-dubz]

https://www.motor1.com/news/414614/ford-escape-st-ruled-out/

[tzach]

If this is true (I believe it) I wonder why, with no Fiesta or Focus ST I would think they could sell a good number of them.  Also Ford needs to figure out a way to bring the Puma (including ST) here, perhaps to slot above the Ecosport which I hope is being replaced soon with a superior vehicle.  I guess this won't be happening either, but again I don't know why.  Freaking Hyundai SUV s are everywhere around here and I must begrudgingly admit they are good looking (never drove one though).  Again especially without Fiesta and Focus Ford needs some smaller more inexpensive SUV's, but they seem only interested in the high end.  Even though brand loyalty is not what it was I can't help but think a lot of these Hyundai buyers of small SUV's if satisfied  will stick with them and move up through their model line as they age.  I am a Ford guy and always will be but they need to keep buyers and gain new ones with some better efforts.  I like the new Escape, the front end is the weak spot but it really isn't that exiting a design and the interior is a little cheap ( guess this is getting fixed).  The Explorer I think is the best looking sportiest in its class but launch was a mess and it is really expensive.

[akirby]

If I had to guess they're putting those resources into Bronco Sport and the 2 other new C platform vehicles.

[351cid]

1 hour ago, tzach said:

If this is true (I believe it) I wonder why, with no Fiesta or Focus ST I would think they could sell a good number of them.  Also Ford needs to figure out a way to bring the Puma (including ST) here, perhaps to slot above the Ecosport which I hope is being replaced soon with a superior vehicle.  I guess this won't be happening either, but again I don't know why.  Freaking Hyundai SUV s are everywhere around here and I must begrudgingly admit they are good looking (never drove one though).  Again especially without Fiesta and Focus Ford needs some smaller more inexpensive SUV's, but they seem only interested in the high end.  Even though brand loyalty is not what it was I can't help but think a lot of these Hyundai buyers of small SUV's if satisfied  will stick with them and move up through their model line as they age.  I am a Ford guy and always will be but they need to keep buyers and gain new ones with some better efforts.  I like the new Escape, the front end is the weak spot but it really isn't that exiting a design and the interior is a little cheap ( guess this is getting fixed).  The Explorer I think is the best looking sportiest in its class but launch was a mess and it is really expensive.

Not sure how that atrocity (Escape) could be made to look  "Macho" or "high performance" with out looking like that car from Cars movies.

 

This current management team doesn't want to sell "afforable" vehicles right now. They are only concerned with "how much can we make right now". When the future arrives with different tastes, they will scramble to react. This current philosophy is very short term gain biased.

 

Saddens me that this is what the once mighty Ford Motor Company has become.

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, 351cid said:

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by T-dubz
Double post

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, 351cid said:

Not sure how that atrocity (Escape) could be made to look  "Macho" or "high performance" with out looking like that car from Cars movies.

 

This current management team doesn't want to sell "afforable" vehicles right now. They are only concerned with "how much can we make right now". When the future arrives with different tastes, they will scramble to react. This current philosophy is very short term gain biased.

 

Saddens me that this is what the once mighty Ford Motor Company has become.

it would be tough, but the focus RS had a very different face from the regular focus. Same for the new GT500. The escape really just needs a new face and better quality materials on the interior and it would be a much better offering.

 

if they don’t bring the ST here, they should at least bring the ST line. I find the ST and sport versions of ford’s vehicles to be the best looking. I don’t really care about the extra performance, but I do like the look and would be willing to pay extra for it.

Edited April 24, 2020 by T-dubz

[silvrsvt]

In all seriousness how much of a market is there for a small performance Crossover? 

[Harley Lover]

17 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

In all seriousness how much of a market is there for a small performance Crossover? 

 

Didn't seem to phase Ford when they offered the Edge ST. Or the Fiesta ST. As Akirby alluded, there are costs involved to develop the variant, but why not try?

[bzcat]

14 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

In all seriousness how much of a market is there for a small performance Crossover? 

 

Probably much bigger than small performance hatchback. The first brand to really nail it properly is going to mint money. VW Tiguan GTI, Honda CR-V Si, Subaru Forester WRX, Buick Envision GN, Mazda CX-5 GTX,  Nissan Rogue SE-R, Hyundai Tucson N, Ford Escape ST...

 

The premium brands have had no problem selling compact performance CUV (e.g Audi SQ5, BMW X3M40i, Mercedes GLC43 etc) so that tells me the middle market brands are missing an opportunity here. 

[akirby]

3 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Didn't seem to phase Ford when they offered the Edge ST. Or the Fiesta ST. As Akirby alluded, there are costs involved to develop the variant, but why not try?

 

I still think you have to look at all of the C2 vehicles in development - that's a lot of resources to get at least 5 brand new vehicles out the door plus whatever performance models they're doing for Bronco Sport.   I wouldn't be surprised to see some type of performance package for Escape next year or the year after but not a full blown ST.

[silvrsvt]

43 minutes ago, bzcat said:

The premium brands have had no problem selling compact performance CUV (e.g Audi SQ5, BMW X3M40i, Mercedes GLC43 etc) so that tells me the middle market brands are missing an opportunity here. 

Right, but people are also buying them because of the brand name/cache

 

I think the biggest issue will be the price point for a small vehicle like this-I don’t see a big market for performance vehicle like this at a $32-35k price point. The Edge and Explorer are different because the already have a higher starting point and the typical buyer is affluent enough to upgrade to a model like that, if they want. 

[atomcat68]

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

Probably much bigger than small performance hatchback. The first brand to really nail it properly is going to mint money. VW Tiguan GTI, Honda CR-V Si, Subaru Forester WRX, Buick Envision GN, Mazda CX-5 GTX,  Nissan Rogue SE-R, Hyundai Tucson N, Ford Escape ST...

 

The premium brands have had no problem selling compact performance CUV (e.g Audi SQ5, BMW X3M40i, Mercedes GLC43 etc) so that tells me the middle market brands are missing an opportunity here. 

I would see Mazda, Hyundai and especially Nissan jumping on that first. Of the American brands, Jeep then Chevy.

[T-dubz]

There was a story from last year saying that Hyundai will be bringing a N version of the Tucson with 340 hp. I think it would be coming out next year.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/303607/hyundai-tucson-n-rumor/amp/

 

they also came out with an N Line package (just like the st line, appearance package only) this year for Europe. So it appears other manufacturers are thinking about it.

 

[bzcat]

51 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Right, but people are also buying them because of the brand name/cache

 

I think the biggest issue will be the price point for a small vehicle like this-I don’t see a big market for performance vehicle like this at a $32-35k price point. The Edge and Explorer are different because the already have a higher starting point and the typical buyer is affluent enough to upgrade to a model like that, if they want. 

 

If those people were purely buying on brand name cache, they wouldn't be buying the performance variant. 

 

But my point is that given how the market has evolved, the number of people that would be interested in a $35k Escape ST now probably outnumber the ones that purchased a $30k Focus ST or even $40k Fusion Sport. If the math worked on those cars, I don't see why Escape ST wouldn't. The most inexplicable thing here is that 2.3 EB is already in Corsair so offering it in an Escape ST doesn't involve any real new costs to certify the powertrain, at least in the US. 

 

So the potential is there and I'm willing to bet a good number of the next gen models I mentioned above will have a performance variant as they replace cars in their respective lineup. 

 

[MKX1960]

It seems, this is the size vehicle that Focus ST buyers want. They complain that Edge and Explorer ST models aren't the real deal and shouldn't be called an ST. I have a feeling an Escape ST would be the biggest seller of the 3.

[ice-capades]

On 4/24/2020 at 5:14 PM, silvrsvt said:

Right, but people are also buying them because of the brand name/cache

 

I think the biggest issue will be the price point for a small vehicle like this-I don’t see a big market for performance vehicle like this at a $32-35k price point. The Edge and Explorer are different because the already have a higher starting point and the typical buyer is affluent enough to upgrade to a model like that, if they want. 

 

Even if Ford was considering an Escape ST model, it would never be in the $32-35K price range. Every ST model that Ford offers is at the high end, price wise for the vehicle line. As such, with a 2020 Escape Titanium AWD at 38K+ I wouldn't expect to see an Escape ST, if ever available, to be priced any less. There have been a lot of problems with the Escape packaging, pricing and availability the past few years with Ford claiming that the SE models were loss leaders because they added so much standard equipment. The most desirable Escape Hybrid model, now that we have a hybrid Escape again, is the SE Sport. However, Ford's limited the production and availability of the SE Sport and forcing dealers to take mostly the Titanium Hybrids at a much higher price point.  

[probowler]

On 4/24/2020 at 12:09 PM, akirby said:

If I had to guess they're putting those resources into Bronco Sport and the 2 other new C platform vehicles.

Bronco Sport Sport

[tbone]

Another story discussing an Escape ST.  
 

https://carbuzz.com/news/is-the-ford-escape-st-coming

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Even if Ford was considering an Escape ST model, it would never be in the $32-35K price range. Every ST model that Ford offers is at the high end, price wise for the vehicle line. As such, with a 2020 Escape Titanium AWD at 38K+ I wouldn't expect to see an Escape ST, if ever available, to be priced any less. There have been a lot of problems with the Escape packaging, pricing and availability the past few years

Forgot that the Ti models went that high-which is another reason why a $39k Escape ST would be a non starter. Just look at the Fusion Sport-never a big seller and it was around the same price. I think the sub $40k market isn’t conducive to a sporty product that can make money, because the Escape is sold more or less at a price point around $30k. The Bronco Sport should hopefully push that higher because of the cashe will help push pricing higher because of its bigger brother. 
 

I’d rather see them offer an Escape Sport model with a better suspension and some different wheels and styling. Make it a $2-3500 markup and it should sell decently and keep margins up. 

[tbone]

20 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Forgot that the Ti models went that high-which is another reason why a $39k Escape ST would be a non starter. Just look at the Fusion Sport-never a big seller and it was around the same price. I think the sub $40k market isn’t conducive to a sporty product that can make money, because the Escape is sold more or less at a price point around $30k. The Bronco Sport should hopefully push that higher because of the cashe will help push pricing higher because of its bigger brother. 
 

I’d rather see them offer an Escape Sport model with a better suspension and some different wheels and styling. Make it a $2-3500 markup and it should sell decently and keep margins up. 

I would argue the Escape would be a little more practical than the Fusion Sport was, since you can fit more people and cargo.  Like when they added the crew cab Raptor.  I couldn’t justify the super cab model for family use, but that changed when the Screw came out.  
 

How difficult is it really to create an ST variant, especially when some parts can be taken from the Focus. If people want it they will pay for it. However it can’t be a phone in job either.  If they are going to phone it in, then a Sport package, as you suggested, would be sufficient.  A lot of people just like the styling associated with the performance models, so perhaps it would be enough. I don’t think it would take a lot to improve the front end of the Escape. As it sits though, it’s a little bland.  

[bzcat]

Maybe Ford will try something like ST-line for the mid cycle update. Seems very low risk way to try out the market. And they won't be the first ones in the US either. VW offers Tiguan R-Line and Toyota has RAV4 TRD Sport, and Subaru has Forest Sport which is sort of like WRX-lite appearance package. 

[silvrsvt]

1 minute ago, bzcat said:

Maybe Ford will try something like ST-line for the mid cycle update. Seems very low risk way to try out the market. And they won't be the first ones in the US either. VW offers Tiguan R-Line and Toyota has RAV4 TRD Sport, and Subaru has Forest Sport which is sort of like WRX-lite appearance package. 

 

The TRD (to me at least) seems like it would be more of an off road package, due to its T(u)Rd heritage with their pickups.

[rmc523]

16 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The TRD (to me at least) seems like it would be more of an off road package, due to its T(u)Rd heritage with their pickups.

 

I will never understand who approved that name.

[dlghtjr90]

16 hours ago, bzcat said:

Maybe Ford will try something like ST-line for the mid cycle update. Seems very low risk way to try out the market. And they won't be the first ones in the US either. VW offers Tiguan R-Line and Toyota has RAV4 TRD Sport, and Subaru has Forest Sport which is sort of like WRX-lite appearance package. 

 

The Fiesta had an ST-Line for its final year which I'm guessing no one noticed.

[tbone]

3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I will never understand who approved that name.

Agreed!