CurtisH Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Not sure how Ford is planning on making money on Maverick if it is that cheap. The Ranger starts at $24K The Transit Connect is $28K, which would be the sibling the Maverick shares its platform with, along with the Escape, which starts at $24K According to Ford’s website, the Transit Connect starts at $24,275 for the cargo van. I also don’t see how they can get the price below $20,000, but they aren’t as far off as your numbers suggested. Or were you quoting the price for the wagon version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) Compared to TC I think it will have a shorter wheelbase (base model), smaller engine, no top for the bed, no side door and no rear doors. Suspension would probably also be cheaper. That alone would put it well under Ranger starting price. Edited May 6, 2020 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipzoomflyfast Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Not sure how Ford is planning on making money on Maverick if it is that cheap. The Ranger starts at $24K The Transit Connect is $28K, which would be the sibling the Maverick shares its platform with, along with the Escape, which starts at $24K Not sure how they are gonna be able to make money on a small pickup if its 20K-or 4K then the Escape that they apparently have hard time making money on or 8K less then the TC. If they try, its going to be a stripper special and get pulled apart by the press. Your going to have very limited options (single power train) and the dash and what not will be recycled from other products without much changing. Only way I can see it working (and how it will most likely play out) is the next gen Ranger gets bumped up in price to 27K and it falls into the 22K starting price range or so. I'd expect a price bump for the 2021 F-150 to give the Ranger more breathing room. Much like any modern Ford or other manufacturer, the "base" truck might start at/near $20k, but will have VERY limited supply and a nice fully loaded Maverick will prob end up around $30-$34k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 2 hours ago, CurtisH said: According to Ford’s website, the Transit Connect starts at $24,275 for the cargo van. I also don’t see how they can get the price below $20,000, but they aren’t as far off as your numbers suggested. Or were you quoting the price for the wagon version? I must have looked at the Wagon-I just clicked the truck/van tab on the Ford site and thats what I saw. I'm guessing the Wagon would have more options like typically equipped car would too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: Compared to TC I think it will have a shorter wheelbase (base model), smaller engine, no top for the bed, no side door and no rear doors. Suspension would probably also be cheaper. That alone would put it well under Ranger starting price. You actually think they are doing a 2 door version or a SWB model? I don't see the point in doing that due to costs. I believe the TC is also using a Leaf spring suspension in the back, so would be the same suspension. Pre 2019 Ranger, the Interior has next to no interior space for rear passengers for a small truck. I'd see this more along the lines of a lifestyle truck then an actual work truck that is more focused on passenger comfort then hauling things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: You actually think they are doing a 2 door version or a SWB model? I don't see the point in doing that due to costs. I believe the TC is also using a Leaf spring suspension in the back, so would be the same suspension. Pre 2019 Ranger, the Interior has next to no interior space for rear passengers for a small truck. I'd see this more along the lines of a lifestyle truck then an actual work truck that is more focused on passenger comfort then hauling things. I was thinking the suspension would be lighter duty being on a lighter vehicle. And I do see them making a reg cab swb model. Or maybe a small supercab with jump seats like the old ranger. I also expect a reg cab XL for next gen Ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Not sure how Ford is planning on making money on Maverick if it is that cheap. The Ranger starts at $24K The Transit Connect is $28K, which would be the sibling the Maverick shares its platform with, along with the Escape, which starts at $24K Not sure how they are gonna be able to make money on a small pickup if its 20K-or 4K then the Escape that they apparently have hard time making money on or 8K less then the TC. If they try, its going to be a stripper special and get pulled apart by the press. Your going to have very limited options (single power train) and the dash and what not will be recycled from other products without much changing. Only way I can see it working (and how it will most likely play out) is the next gen Ranger gets bumped up in price to 27K and it falls into the 22K starting price range or so. I'd expect a price bump for the 2021 F-150 to give the Ranger more breathing room. As someone pointed out, they'll probably sneak an absolute base model under the 20k barrier, but won't make many of them. 21 minutes ago, akirby said: I was thinking the suspension would be lighter duty being on a lighter vehicle. And I do see them making a reg cab swb model. Or maybe a small supercab with jump seats like the old ranger. I also expect a reg cab XL for next gen Ranger. Borg is reporting on GMI that the next gen Ranger won't arrive until 2024, which seems rather far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 9 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Not sure how Ford is planning on making money on Maverick if it is that cheap. The Ranger starts at $24K The Transit Connect is $28K, which would be the sibling the Maverick shares its platform with, along with the Escape, which starts at $24K Not sure how they are gonna be able to make money on a small pickup if its 20K-or 4K then the Escape that they apparently have hard time making money on or 8K less then the TC. If they try, its going to be a stripper special and get pulled apart by the press. Your going to have very limited options (single power train) and the dash and what not will be recycled from other products without much changing. Only way I can see it working (and how it will most likely play out) is the next gen Ranger gets bumped up in price to 27K and it falls into the 22K starting price range or so. I'd expect a price bump for the 2021 F-150 to give the Ranger more breathing room. Ford may be able to reduce the price of the Transit Connect with the future generation for it will no longer have to deal with the chicken tax. A 2 door, 2wd, 1.5L I3 EB. I can see how they could get that down to $20k. The Escape starts at under $25k and would have 3 extra seats and cargo space. Also, the Ranger - F-150 - Super Duty all have a 4-5K break between their starting points. So $4.5K beneath the Ranger asking price is roughly $20k. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I see the maverick being 4 door only. I’d guess it would start at the same price as a ranger extended cab. Comparing a 4 door ranger ($26,800) vs a 4 door maverick would then show you an acceptable price difference. I’d also guess the price of the next gen ranger will increase too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipzoomflyfast Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I agree, 4 door only. I don't see any reason for a supercab version. Possibly a single cab for fleet, but that is a stretch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 49 minutes ago, zipzoomflyfast said: I agree, 4 door only. I don't see any reason for a supercab version. Possibly a single cab for fleet, but that is a stretch too. The issue is reduced bed size. I was not willing to go with a supercrew F150 because of the 5.5' bed. I haul a lot of lumber and plywood so the supercab 6.5' works way better and 99% of the time it's just me and/or my wife. Besides, the rear seat in the supercrew Ranger is already pretty small - in a truck like this is would be even smaller. So you'd end up with an almost unusable rear seat and bed. Personally I'd rather have a small supercab with jump seats like the old ranger and a longer bed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 1 hour ago, zipzoomflyfast said: I agree, 4 door only. I don't see any reason for a supercab version. Possibly a single cab for fleet, but that is a stretch too. I think four door is a cost issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: The issue is reduced bed size. I was not willing to go with a supercrew F150 because of the 5.5' bed. I haul a lot of lumber and plywood so the supercab 6.5' works way better and 99% of the time it's just me and/or my wife. I'm seeing this product more like a Ridgeline then a real pickup truck. Given that its a unibody FWD design, I think having multiple bed lengths or Cabs is going to kill any profitability on it. Its leaning more towards Sport Trac bed size, then Ranger size. Maybe Ford will do something that will allow you fold the tailgate down and fit a sheet of plywood or sheetrock in the back of it, without it falling out. That would take care of the DIY aspect that the buyer would want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: I'm seeing this product more like a Ridgeline then a real pickup truck. Given that its a unibody FWD design, I think having multiple bed lengths or Cabs is going to kill any profitability on it. Its leaning more towards Sport Trac bed size, then Ranger size. Maybe Ford will do something that will allow you fold the tailgate down and fit a sheet of plywood or sheetrock in the back of it, without it falling out. That would take care of the DIY aspect that the buyer would want. I could be completely wrong, but I see this as the new version of the 90s Ranger. I owned a 90 RCSB - perfect commuter vehicle. Cheap, relatively good on gas but with enough utility to haul supplies from home depot or move a piece of furniture. I think a 2 door supercab with jump seats and a longer bed would be cheaper and more differentiated from Ranger and can get better fuel economy. I just think a 4 door would have a tiny rear seat and a tiny bed neither of which would be particularly usable. You've still got Ranger if folks want a true crew cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, akirby said: I could be completely wrong, but I see this as the new version of the 90s Ranger. I owned a 90 RCSB - perfect commuter vehicle. Cheap, relatively good on gas but with enough utility to haul supplies from home depot or move a piece of furniture. I dunno, I'm 6'2 and I can't fit into a regular cab 1990 era Ranger (at least the one i sat in) If you go up the Super Cab, your looking at something that is 202 inches long, and IMO that is too big for a "small" vehicle. Its the same length as an Taurus...and I hate trying to park my car at times.It Should be sub 200 inches. The last gen Sport Track was 205 inches and the current Explorer is 200 or so. The current Ranger is 210. The 1998 Ranger is 187-202' I don't think a 2 door Small pickup wouldn't be smart as an entry level vehicle either...look at how small the market is for 2 door products anyways. It needs 4 doors since it will be used as primary transportation 95% of the time. Its basically an Escape with a small pickup bed that would be fine for home improvement type things. Edited May 11, 2020 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Given the size of mule and report that it is based on LWB Transit Connect, and the C-segment width, it looks like Ford is aiming for something like Fiat Toro or Renault Oroch. I think 4 door makes more sense if they are casting a wide net for appeal. The issue here is what other markets that Ford wants to sell this truck and how much profit margin those margin will contribute to the program. Something the size of Transit Connect (like Fiat Toro) is considered midsize in South America, Southeast Asia and India... so it will command premium pricing - 4 doors seems like a lock. If Ford wants to sell a 2 door unibody truck, it's more likely to be based on B-segment tool kit like the now discontinued Fiesta based Brazilian Courier, VW Saveiro or Fiat Strada, not C-segment. B-segment pickup C-segment pickup (VW and Hyundai are also working on their respectively C-segment unibody trucks) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, bzcat said: Given the size of mule and report that it is based on LWB Transit Connect, and the C-segment width, it looks like Ford is aiming for something like Fiat Toro or Renault Oroch. I think 4 door makes more sense if they are casting a wide net for appeal. The issue here is what other markets that Ford wants to sell this truck and how much profit margin those margin will contribute to the program. Something the size of Transit Connect (like Fiat Toro) is considered midsize in South America, Southeast Asia and India... so it will command premium pricing - 4 doors seems like a lock. If Ford wants to sell a 2 door unibody truck, it's more likely to be based on B-segment tool kit like the now discontinued Fiesta based Brazilian Courier, VW Saveiro or Fiat Strada, not C-segment. B-segment pickup C-segment pickup (VW and Hyundai are also working on their respectively C-segment unibody trucks) man, those two doors look awful. If ford does make a two door, hopefully they can execute better than those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I guess it all depends whether it's being positioned as an actual truck like the 90s ranger in which case I think it has to be a 2 door/supercab with a longer bed or if it's just a lifestyle vehicle with an open trunk but no real cargo capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, bzcat said: C-segment pickup (VW and Hyundai are also working on their respectively C-segment unibody trucks) Both of these are pretty good looking to me..the Peugeot is funky, but in a good way. Edited May 11, 2020 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Both of these are pretty good looking to me..the Peugeot is funky, but in a good way. I agree on the Fiat, however I think the Peugeot looks terrible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Based on LWB Transit Connect specs, this Fiat Toro does look like the right size. But I still think that bed is just too small. Make it a 2 door and extend the bed and I think it would be more popular. The 4 door would be basically the same as Bronco Sport with the back roof removed. And I reiterate I could be completely wrong. I just don't see the market for such a tiny tiny cargo bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, akirby said: And I reiterate I could be completely wrong. I just don't see the market for such a tiny tiny cargo bed. I wonder if you could do a pass-thru to allow you to “extend the bed” into the back seat area. Would add complexity (and cost) though. Seems to be a difficult balance of whether this is a budget truck, or a lifestyle truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, sullynd said: Seems to be a difficult balance of whether this is a budget truck, or a lifestyle truck. And I see Bronco Sport as the lifestyle truck in the segment, especially if the rear of the roof is removable. A 4 door lifestyle truck with a tiny bed would seem to be redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, akirby said: Based on LWB Transit Connect specs, this Fiat Toro does look like the right size. But I still think that bed is just too small. Make it a 2 door and extend the bed and I think it would be more popular. The 4 door would be basically the same as Bronco Sport with the back roof removed. And I reiterate I could be completely wrong. I just don't see the market for such a tiny tiny cargo bed. Back when I had a truck, when I’d use the bed, it was mainly for one or two items at a time. Maybe I was moving a dresser, lawn mower, picking up some bags of mulch, etc. I also used it when I was moving, but that’s before I found that hiring movers was so much easier lol. My point is, 95% of the time, I didn’t need the whole bed. Usually half was just fine. I think most people would be fine with a small bed. Especially those that are looking at a sub compact truck. I’d imagine the buyers of this want a small vehicle that’s like a cuv but allows them to carry bigger items every once in a while. I don’t think they will be expecting to carry 8ft pieces of plywood In it. im thinking people who like the ridgeline but want something even smaller. Edited May 11, 2020 by T-dubz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, T-dubz said: Back when I had a truck, when I’d use the bed, it was mainly for one or two items at a time. Maybe I was moving a dresser, lawn mower, picking up some bags of mulch, etc. I also used it when I was moving, but that’s before I found that hiring movers was so much easier lol. My point is, 95% of the time, I didn’t need the whole bed. Usually half was just fine. I think most people would be fine with a small bed. Especially those that are looking at a sub compact truck. I’d imagine the buyers of this want a small vehicle that’s like a cuv but allows them to carry bigger items every once in a while. I don’t think they will be expecting to carry 8ft pieces of plywood In it. im thinking people who like the ridgeline but want something even smaller. You're not getting a dresser or sofa in the bed of that Fiat Toro. Here is the better question - what can you put in that bed that you can't put in the back of a Bronco Sport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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