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Autoextremist om Ford


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16 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Autoextremist's phrase "unmitigated disaster of stupefying proportions" describing Bronco launch should be said as often as anyone on this site pleases.


It shouldn't because it's not true. It's not like we have to ship units to other plants for re-inspection and repair like Chicago did and it's not like we aren't shipping out anything we build at all. The entire reason the hard top roofs aren't being shipped is precautionary, it's not like they aren't functional. I'm not saying it isn't a giant fail, it is, but stop with the hyperbole. 

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Price limits volume sales. The Mach E basically starts in $50,000 range. At luxury dealer near me sits a 2019 Model 3 for $50,000, and it has been sitting there for months at that price. The Bolt is stuck at 2,000/month and it is more affordable. It's going to take a huge federal gas tax or prohibition of ICE sales to get consumers to buy BEV's in huge numbers. 

 

Bolt does poorly because it’s an econobox shoe lookalike.  Had GM given it some actual style, it’d be doing better.   Not that it’d have a million sales a month, but better.

 

30 minutes ago, Deanh said:

I think the issue...and the biggest hurdle is basically peoples impatience....if you have to charge a car for hours to obtain any sort of credible driving range it instantly changes the dynamic to said vehicle being a second "rum around car".,.,..and thats even if it has 300 miles range...I think that "fear" is BEVs biggest hurdle...say what you want, but 10 minutes in a gas station filling up is convenient, simple and non time consuming and there Gas Stations are everywhere. I toyed with a Mach E for the  wifes as a she basically drives 30 miles a day...in THAT  scenario it makes perfect sense...but cost and the fact that an SUV fits our needs better so B Sport it was...now if there was a plug in version of the Sport  I would have gone that route.


definitely agree with this line of thinking too.

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The thing is the mindset has to change a bit...look at this way:

For every day use commuting to work lets say 40-50 miles round trip every day.

 

5x50 miles is 250 miles a week.

 

You can either spend an extra 5-10 minutes a week to refuel your car or you can come home and plug your car in and let it charge over night without going anywhere else (yeah I get people who live in places that don't have access to chargers yet etc) once or twice a week, which one is worse?

Not to mention I've heard term ABC (always be charging) to help offset range issues due environmental factors if its cold out since the car can use the charger to regulate the battery temp. 

You can argue the point about long distance driving, but I know if I have a 8+ hour drive ahead of me, I want to stop for lunch/dinner for at least 30 minutes or so to stretch out and whatnot.

 

Things are changing and in the next five-10 years most of the charging issues should be taken care of. 

 

Edited by silvrsvt
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32 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

You can argue the point about long distance driving, but I know if I have a 8+ hour drive ahead of me, I want to stop for lunch/dinner for at least 30 minutes or so to stretch out and whatnot.

 

Things are changing and in the next five-10 years most of the charging issues should be taken care of. 

 

 

Read Henry Payne's experience in driving a Mach-E to northern Michigan (where I live).  Great car, but a royal pain in the butt finding a place to recharge the batteries.  For many, BEV's are still a non-starter, just for the experiences Payne  details in his article.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2021/08/05/payne-turning-heads-chasing-chargers-up-north-mustang-mach-e/5450267001/

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32 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The thing is the mindset has to change a bit...look at this way:

For every day use commuting to work lets say 40-50 miles round trip every day.

 

5x50 miles is 250 miles a week.

 

You can either spend an extra 5-10 minutes a week to refuel your car or you can come home and plug your car in and let it charge over night without going anywhere else (yeah I get people who live in places that don't have access to chargers yet etc) once or twice a week, which one is worse?

Not to mention I've heard term ABC (always be charging) to help offset range issues due environmental factors if its cold out since the car can use the charger to regulate the battery temp. 

You can argue the point about long distance driving, but I know if I have a 8+ hour drive ahead of me, I want to stop for lunch/dinner for at least 30 minutes or so to stretch out and whatnot.

 

Things are changing and in the next five-10 years most of the charging issues should be taken care of. 

 

charging time and Range are the two biggest hurdles IMO...it'll come eventually I think....but it will take some time I think, Im definitely not sold on full Electric...IMO the best compromise ( at least current day ) is a plug in hybrid....but I fear that propositions days are numbered as well. What is extremely cool is seeing all the new vehicles coming out from basically every manufacturer...for a car nut its a good time. 

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34 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

You can argue the point about long distance driving, but I know if I have a 8+ hour drive ahead of me, I want to stop for lunch/dinner for at least 30 minutes or so to stretch out and whatnot.


I agree but the problem today is most fast chargers still take more than 30 minutes to get 300 mile range and you can’t always find one near a restaurant or even near your preferred route in rural areas.  And if you find o e you may have to wait for somebody else to finish.

 

Could you make it work?  Of course.  But the average driver doesn’t want that hassle when they can find a gas station literally everywhere and fuel up in 10 minutes.

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16 minutes ago, sullynd said:

3,000 miles on my Mach-E. Have paid less than $60 to charge.  Rarely charge at home. Zero issues charging when on the road. 

 

Great to hear sullynd sir! My wife's Mustang Mach-E has about half the miles right now, but you received your Mach-E before she got hers. :)

 

Did Ford give you free charging credits with EA in your FordPass account? My wife and I got an extra 250 kW of DC fast charging credits because of order to delivery delays, 500 kW total. We've used about 40 kW so far, all other charging for the Mach-E has been done at home. 

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8 hours ago, akirby said:


It’s not our fault that you and several others can’t tell the difference between an excuse and a reason.

 

Webasto was contracted to build the tops and they failed to deliver.  Ford trusted them because they currently supply similar production tops for Jeep.

 

Ford gave them a difficult design and they subsequently changed the design and provided new tooling.

 

Ford did not allow enough time to inspect the production tops before Bronco production.  They took a big risk that the tops were ok based on the pre production prototypes and they lost that bet.

 

Ford is ultimately responsible for the problem.

 

Now can we please stop the arguments about who is responsible?

 

Well, Ford could throw Webasto under the bus like Toyota did 10 years ago to their accelerator pedal supplier during that massive recall...

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

The thing is the mindset has to change a bit...look at this way:

For every day use commuting to work lets say 40-50 miles round trip every day.

 

5x50 miles is 250 miles a week.

 

You can either spend an extra 5-10 minutes a week to refuel your car or you can come home and plug your car in and let it charge over night without going anywhere else (yeah I get people who live in places that don't have access to chargers yet etc) once or twice a week, which one is worse?

Not to mention I've heard term ABC (always be charging) to help offset range issues due environmental factors if its cold out since the car can use the charger to regulate the battery temp. 

You can argue the point about long distance driving, but I know if I have a 8+ hour drive ahead of me, I want to stop for lunch/dinner for at least 30 minutes or so to stretch out and whatnot.

 

Things are changing and in the next five-10 years most of the charging issues should be taken care of. 

 

 

I do agree a lot of it is mindset, and that for a lot of people, an EV would be just fine for normal driving.

 

Trips are the bigger thing in that regard - yes you'd like to stretch/stop/eat on longer legs, but as others have pointed out, it's an assumption to hope that there are chargers near where you want to go that work/are available, etc.  Long term it'll all get there, but now the infrastructure isn't there yet for everyone to switch fully yet, IMO.  Whether it's a mindset issue or not.

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7 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Price limits volume sales. The Mach E basically starts in $50,000 range. At luxury dealer near me sits a 2019 Model 3 for $50,000, and it has been sitting there for months at that price. The Bolt is stuck at 2,000/month and it is more affordable. It's going to take a huge federal gas tax or prohibition of ICE sales to get consumers to buy BEV's in huge numbers. 

40-50k seems to be the sweet spot right now.  Which limits the sales volume.  Below that and the battery cost to total cost becomes too much and you don’t get much beyond the electric drivetrain.  That’s the bolts issue….along with the battery fires.  The hummer won’t sell in large numbers either.

 

If it does take government action to force BEVs on the public, the profitability of those sales will be minimal and we will see a big shakeout of manufacturers.  I think Akirbys 20-25% figure is about right, but even that might be on the high side.

 

One thing I am sure of is Pete having a rant about how Ford did the wrong thing when it comes to EVs (spent to much developing them for a non existent market or didn’t develop enough of them).

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5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Things are changing and in the next five-10 years most of the charging issues should be taken care of. 

 

That is the issue for me.  We will be trading in my wife’s Edge next year.  It’s the car we use when we take vacations.  So, we won’t consider a BEV.  Ten years from now, I expect we will choose a BEV.  But currently, the inconvenience of a BEV on a long trip isn’t worth the hassle. 

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51 minutes ago, CurtisH said:

That is the issue for me.  We will be trading in my wife’s Edge next year.  It’s the car we use when we take vacations.  So, we won’t consider a BEV.  Ten years from now, I expect we will choose a BEV.  But currently, the inconvenience of a BEV on a long trip isn’t worth the hassle. 


I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand.

 

We’ll get there in a few years, just not now.

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1 hour ago, CurtisH said:

That is the issue for me.  We will be trading in my wife’s Edge next year.  It’s the car we use when we take vacations.  So, we won’t consider a BEV.  Ten years from now, I expect we will choose a BEV.  But currently, the inconvenience of a BEV on a long trip isn’t worth the hassle. 

Hopefully there will be more PHEV options for people who take long trips. 

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3 hours ago, CurtisH said:

We would consider a PHEV, or even a HEV.  They eliminate the potential recharging hassle.  

 

HEV is best way.....close to 600 miles on 14 gallon tank, no charging necessary anywhere, much lighter vehicle, and more cargo space plus cheaper sticker price. HEV rules!!!

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28 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

Does the Escape PIH battery take up additional space versus the hybrid? I thought both were under the seat and did not compromise space?

 

The battery for the PHEV Escape is mounted in the undercarriage someplace.  It takes up enough room so they can't run a driveshaft to the rear wheels, which is why the PHEV Escape is FWD only.  The Lincoln Corsair uses a separate rear, electric motor to give it AWD.

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43 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

The battery for the PHEV Escape is mounted in the undercarriage someplace.  It takes up enough room so they can't run a driveshaft to the rear wheels, which is why the PHEV Escape is FWD only.  The Lincoln Corsair uses a separate rear, electric motor to give it AWD.

 

Mike Knapp Ford has a PHEV on the lot and did review of vehicle on the lot through You Tube. It comes with power cord and plug. Since the battery is far heavier than hybrid battery, I would assume you will lose some interior room somewhere. My hybrid has 5 less cubic feet than non hybrid with rear seats down. 

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1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

The battery for the PHEV Escape is mounted in the undercarriage someplace.  It takes up enough room so they can't run a driveshaft to the rear wheels, which is why the PHEV Escape is FWD only.  The Lincoln Corsair uses a separate rear, electric motor to give it AWD.

 

I wonder if it's possible that the extra space taken by the PHEV battery is under the floor only (hence the AWD constraint) versus taking any additional interior space?

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2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

I wonder if it's possible that the extra space taken by the PHEV battery is under the floor only (hence the AWD constraint) versus taking any additional interior space?

 

My Escape Hybrid has battery under the rear seat and is size of brief case and still lost 5 cubic feet of space. The PHEV battery is much more powerful and thus bigger and heavier. 

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13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The Escape PHEV’s battery is located under the carpet in the rear compartment,

there’s no impediment to using a driveshaft from the front.

 

JPD, any idea of the potential loss of space from the PHEV battery? I tried to find interior room specs on the Ford site, but they don't seem to list numeric specs like that on the site.

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14 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

JPD, any idea of the potential loss of space from the PHEV battery? I tried to find interior room specs on the Ford site, but they don't seem to list numeric specs like that on the site.

Shorthand answer, it looks to take up the spare tire space, the batteries in C2 are In the luggage compartment but below the floor level, not a box in the trunk like Fusion.

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