Workers shut down Dearborn

[jasonj80]

150k people per month are diagnosed with cancer, there have been virtually no cancer screenings over the past 2 1/2 months, on top of creating a backlog of screenings of people. Cancer is one of many other health issues going undiagnosed or being put off which will be killing people for months to come. 
 

The fact very little of this data in reports and papers has been peer reviewed in an actual Good journal says all. Michigan isn’t  even publishing the metrics state is using to reopen. Though I’m not sure anyone in the Governors or AG office actually has a clue about anything, I mean today the AG sued went against GM, FCA (and Ford some what) in the fuel economy standards, never mind they are only some of the largest employers in the state and now is launching an investigation into the dam failure when Michigan is part of the lawsuits and has some fault rather than appoint an independent investigation.

 

This is the beginning of the next lost decade for Michigan. That will impact Ford in that it is already hard to recruit talent here, that will become even harder over the decade.

[fuzzymoomoo]

3 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

This is the beginning of the next lost decade for Michigan. That will impact Ford in that it is already hard to recruit talent here, that will become even harder over the decade.

A lot more people will me moving out of state soon if they haven't started already. I would love to but I can't right now. 

[probowler]

5 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

This is the beginning of the next lost decade for Michigan. That will impact Ford in that it is already hard to recruit talent here, that will become even harder over the decade.

Do you foresee Ford moving their plants ala Tesla in the future?

[jasonj80]

3 hours ago, probowler said:

Do you foresee Ford moving their plants ala Tesla in the future?

Over time I see them continuing to invest in lower cost production sites and production closing that make parts/components that are no longer needed. Those new plants probably won't be in the U.S., here it would be repurpose of existing or addition to existing facilities. Engines/ Transmissions are one area over the next 10/15 years that will see a decrease in production and will lead to plant closings over time. While Ford will eventually need a battery facility the production there will not need the same man power as conventional vehicles and there will be maybe 2-3 world wide, and will probably be in Mexico and India. Electric cars in general need considerably fewer man hours to assembly so they will not need as many people even if a plant is the same size as before. 

If Ford had not cancelled San Luis Potosi there would have been a plant closings in the US/Canada. There is always the persistent roomers that Oakville, Buffalo Stamping, Woodhaven Stamping are all on the way out. Ford does have a surplus in Stamping space but the nature of the facility allows it to scale well. One of Ford's biggest mistakes they made was keeping Chicago and closing Atlanta. Atlanta was a great run plant with a great workforce. Chicago is none of that nor has been; When they both made the Taurus people that knew would tell you to get an Atlanta built car, not a Chicago car. (However, the Explorer launch was way more than just a Chicago issue, but it didn't help that it was being made there either) 

Tesla got stuck with that plant, at the time it was closing and they needed an assembly plant, California tossed a ton of money at them to setup shop to show they were a manufacturing friendly basically making the plant free. Every other manufacture had left California for obvious reasons. It will be interesting where Tesla ends up long term and I could see production shifting overtime abut that will be dependent on where Tesla's market share ends up over time. The existing Tesla owners I know will never go back to a gas powered car; that doesn't mean they will be with Tesla forever, 2 have MACH-E reserved, and 1 has a Rivian reserved.

[Joe771476]

Everybody wear their mask like a good little govt. sheep.  Your Chinese made mask most of which are defective and probably infected with the Wuhan China Virus!  This a test to see how much we can take before we revolt. Personally I pay no attention to govt., big business and scientists. I have NEVER bought anything because I saw an ad on TV or in the paper.  Notice there hasn't been anything in the news about climate change?  Because all it is is newspaper page filler.  Humans exhale 2.2 lbs. of CO 2 every day!  the population of the country and world has doubled in the last 50 years so let's do away with people!  Oh gee, we are!  All the cars and industrial plants don't emit what human exhalation, volcanoes and rotting vegetation emit!  

[Oac98]

11 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Over time I see them continuing to invest in lower cost production sites and production closing that make parts/components that are no longer needed. Those new plants probably won't be in the U.S., here it would be repurpose of existing or addition to existing facilities. Engines/ Transmissions are one area over the next 10/15 years that will see a decrease in production and will lead to plant closings over time. While Ford will eventually need a battery facility the production there will not need the same man power as conventional vehicles and there will be maybe 2-3 world wide, and will probably be in Mexico and India. Electric cars in general need considerably fewer man hours to assembly so they will not need as many people even if a plant is the same size as before. 

If Ford had not cancelled San Luis Potosi there would have been a plant closings in the US/Canada. There is always the persistent roomers that Oakville, Buffalo Stamping, Woodhaven Stamping are all on the way out. Ford does have a surplus in Stamping space but the nature of the facility allows it to scale well. One of Ford's biggest mistakes they made was keeping Chicago and closing Atlanta. Atlanta was a great run plant with a great workforce. Chicago is none of that nor has been; When they both made the Taurus people that knew would tell you to get an Atlanta built car, not a Chicago car. (However, the Explorer launch was way more than just a Chicago issue, but it didn't help that it was being made there either) 

Tesla got stuck with that plant, at the time it was closing and they needed an assembly plant, California tossed a ton of money at them to setup shop to show they were a manufacturing friendly basically making the plant free. Every other manufacture had left California for obvious reasons. It will be interesting where Tesla ends up long term and I could see production shifting overtime abut that will be dependent on where Tesla's market share ends up over time. The existing Tesla owners I know will never go back to a gas powered car; that doesn't mean they will be with Tesla forever, 2 have MACH-E reserved, and 1 has a Rivian reserved.

Funny you mentioned that Mexican plant getting cancelled. I work at Oakville and I said if they build that SAN Luis plant we’re done. I was relieved when they stopped the project. With all this covid crap I see  uncertainty. UAW plants are secure, we’re not. Time will tell, I’m not gonna lose any sleep can’t control what FOMOCO does in the future. Unifor contract coming up, we were already in a questionable bargaining position now ford has even greater leverage to screw us over now that this covid crap happened! Worst possible year for contract negotiations! 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Oacjay98

[fuzzymoomoo]

5 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Worst possible year for contract negotiations! 

You got that right brother. I was just talking to my wife about that a few weeks ago. I feel for you. 

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Funny you mentioned that Mexican plant getting cancelled. I work at Oakville and I said if they build that SAN Luis plant we’re done. I was relieved when they stopped the project. With all this covid crap I see  uncertainty. UAW plants are secure, we’re not. Time will tell, I’m not gonna lose any sleep can’t control what FOMOCO does in the future. Unifor contract coming up, we were already in a questionable bargaining position now ford has even greater leverage to screw us over now that this covid crap happened! Worst possible year for contract negotiations! 

We all got dizzy watching Ford change plans so many times, each time they declared it was the right thing to do but honestly they were chasing their tails by trying to squeeze the bucks so tight.

In my mind, there’s no reason why C2 Focus and Fusion couldn’t have shared Hermosillo and SLP be the home of Ford’s new products going to Hermosillo in the near future. The simple answer is that Ford didn’t want to pay $1.6 billion to effectively keep two cars hanging around, maybe they’re right if cars are now non-essential builds and resource that don’t have to be expended anymore.

 

i feel for you guys with contract negotiations, Ford is the automotive equivalent of couch potatoes, if accountants show that Ford can save money by doing less, then that’s what they do.

Edited May 29, 2020 by jpd80

[probowler]

9 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Funny you mentioned that Mexican plant getting cancelled. I work at Oakville and I said if they build that SAN Luis plant we’re done. I was relieved when they stopped the project. With all this covid crap I see  uncertainty. UAW plants are secure, we’re not. Time will tell, I’m not gonna lose any sleep can’t control what FOMOCO does in the future. Unifor contract coming up, we were already in a questionable bargaining position now ford has even greater leverage to screw us over now that this covid crap happened! Worst possible year for contract negotiations! 

I don't understand why a non-union plant is potentially on the chopping plant over a union plant? You guys should be much cheaper and easier to work with? If anything ford should just yeet the UAW and stick with you guys when the time comes.

[Oac98]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

You got that right brother. I was just talking to my wife about that a few weeks ago. I feel for you. 

Thanks, we will see how it plays out. I just don’t feel like there will be any gains. I feel like Ford had leverage before this year and now they have even more.  

[Oac98]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

We all got dizzy watching Ford change plans so many times, each time they declared it was the right thing to do but honestly they were chasing their tails by trying to squeeze the bucks so tight.

In my mind, there’s no reason why C2 Focus and Fusion couldn’t have shared Hermosillo and SLP be the home of Ford’s new products going to Hermosillo in the near future. The simple answer is that Ford didn’t want to pay $1.6 billion to effectively keep two cars hanging around, maybe they’re right if cars are now non-essential builds and resource that don’t have to be expended anymore.

 

i feel for you guys with contract negotiations, Ford is the automotive equivalent of couch potatoes, if accountants show that Ford can save money by doing less, then that’s what they do.

I agree with your post. I know there are people who feel like the Ford is making the right moves eliminating cars I’m not one of them. I get it CUVS and SUVS are all the rage but I agree they could’ve thrown the fusion focus some Lincoln’s all in one plant in Mexico. I say Mexico since they’re always talking about costs instead of just cede the market to the foreign makers. You guys can’t tell me an all new focus and fusion wouldn’t be enough to run a plant on two shifts. Where are the entry level products?! Why should I be forced to be a escape edge or explorer If I don’t want to?? The plan changing is the next thing, what’s going in flat rock or Oakville going forward??  What’s fords capacity utilization at?? They have more products coming according to them. Don’t these plants need new products?? Every other plant got new product. 

[FordBuyer]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

We all got dizzy watching Ford change plans so many times, each time they declared it was the right thing to do but honestly they were chasing their tails by trying to squeeze the bucks so tight.

In my mind, there’s no reason why C2 Focus and Fusion couldn’t have shared Hermosillo and SLP be the home of Ford’s new products going to Hermosillo in the near future. The simple answer is that Ford didn’t want to pay $1.6 billion to effectively keep two cars hanging around, maybe they’re right if cars are now non-essential builds and resource that don’t have to be expended anymore.

 

i feel for you guys with contract negotiations, Ford is the automotive equivalent of couch potatoes, if accountants show that Ford can save money by doing less, then that’s what they do.

 

Great post jpd80. Bean counters rule supremely in the case of Fusion. Case could be made for crappy trans Focus and Fiesta ending, and for Taurus that didn't sell much better than Flex. Dealers didn't even squawk much about losing all those vehicles. I get it. But the Fusion, especially the AWD option, hybrid and energi option, really make Ford's decision sketchy at best. Ford now only has one hybrid capable 40mpg+ with Fusion demise and delay of Escape and Corsair plugin. Even VW keeps the $18,000 Jetta, and they have never been known as a full line manufacturer in the states or particularly affordable like Ford. I would say the verdict is out on Ford's experiment to sell upmarket prices above $40,000 excluding trucks. Most people will not pay $40,000 for an Escape, $50,000+ for an Explorer, and so on. That is what Lincoln is for. For example, I was quoted $450/month on a lease for a base Titanium Escape with $3,000 down and $350/month on a Cosair with same downpayment. So Ford pricing is screwed up at best, and dealers don't get it either.

[akirby]

18 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Great post jpd80. Bean counters rule supremely in the case of Fusion. 

It’s not bean counters.  Bean counting is decontenting Edge and Nautilus.  Not doing a full refresh on Fusion.  Not replacing the Focus tranny.  There are lots of examples of bean counting. 
 

Cancelling focus and fusion is different.  It’s a matter of being resource constrained.   The savings from cancelling focus and fusion were put into new vehicles.  So it’s a choice between keeping fusion and bringing Bronco sport or maverick to market.  They’re betting that the new products will generate more profit long term.  
 

Fusion will be back in some form or another.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see a return of focus in some form too after the factories are converted to C2 and the new products are out the door.

 

So you can argue that the new products won’t be as successful and it was a bad business decision (only time will tell) but it’s not bean counting.  The amount of capital and R&D available is fixed and you simply can’t do everything at the same time.

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, probowler said:

I don't understand why a non-union plant is potentially on the chopping plant over a union plant?

 

All of Ford's vehicle assembly plants in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico have union workforces. The unions are affiliated with UAW in the U.S., Unifor in Canada, CTM in Mexico.

[silvrsvt]

What is necessarily good for the dealerships isn't good for Ford and vice versa. 

 

Selling cheap Fusions to keep traffic up in a dealership doesn't make Ford $

 

And of course this goes the other way also. 

[probowler]

51 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

What is necessarily good for the dealerships isn't good for Ford and vice versa. 

 

Selling cheap Fusions to keep traffic up in a dealership doesn't make Ford $

 

And of course this goes the other way also. 

You should at least try to maintain a balance though.

 

If a vehicle or two makes the dealerships happy and they in turn feel looked after and are in a good relationship with the company, it will hopefully improve their relationship, and in-turn earn Ford itself some goodwill when they ask dealers for certain things.

Edited May 30, 2020 by probowler

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

What is necessarily good for the dealerships isn't good for Ford and vice versa. 

 

Selling cheap Fusions to keep traffic up in a dealership doesn't make Ford $

 

And of course this goes the other way also. 

 

Selling cheap Escapes, Ecosports, and whatever else is not very profitable either. But it gives your customers a reason to keep doing business with you whether it be service, parts  and someday moving upmarket. And if Ford put its mind to it the Fusion up trims could be desirable and make Ford money. Ford has a much better product in the mid sized sedan segment than the subcompact cuv segment. Ford is blowing out the Ecosport for $16,000 and still can't sell them in decent numbers. Ford could still sell 15,000 Fusions/month if it wanted to. 

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Selling cheap Fusions to keep traffic up in a dealership doesn't make Ford $

 

Selling new cars and light trucks in general isn't a money maker for dealerships either unless automakers kick in incentives such as stair-step programs. 

 

 

[jpd80]

15 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Selling new cars and light trucks in general isn't a money maker for dealerships either unless automakers kick in incentives such as stair-step programs. 

 

 

The only reason that dealers would persist with selling low profit vehicles is to get the ongoing servicing.

[02MustangGT]

Surprise surprise...

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/03/uaw-says-ford-plant-not-following-coronavirus-guidelines/