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Wheeling

Decision Time, Aviator or not?

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If not for Covid-19, I would have been a proud owner or Aviator Reserve II. I was hoping that even Lincoln blew up the launch of the Aviator and lost control on quality, by May or June of 2020, the production bugs should be mostly worked out and I should have bought a decent quality product. But the pandemic changed everything. Ford has shut down the Chicago plant due to infection of the disease only days after reopen. I have lost confidence that Lincoln can get the quality under control in the next couple of months when I have to buy a new ride. 

Since I heard of Aviator, my eyes and mind were hooked, I liked everything it offers. I've compared almost all the models in the price range with the Aviator and decided the Aviator is the one I want.  I first was interested in the GT, but the short pure EV range turned me off. I settled on the Reserve II, just waiting for the right time. The worry about the build quality and the horror stories really scared me. I don't know whether I should jump or not. There is really nothing on the market that even remotely comparable to the Aviator. But I don't want a vehicle that spend more time in the shop than on the road. 

So I started digging, and find out there may be one alternative, the Genesis GV80, very nicely equipped, if not better, slightly cheaper, but with top reputation for quality.  It will be on sale in the next couple of months. If you are in my shoes, which one will you buy? 

here is one link for the GV80  https://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/gv80/2021/2021-genesis-gv80-first-drive-review/

  

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7 hours ago, Wheeling said:

If you are in my shoes, which one will you buy?  

 

Hands down, the Aviator....

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To date we have been most pleased with our Aviator, a December build, delivered in February.  No defects in panel alignment, paint or any function.  The only thing to temper our evaluation has been the limited use due to the Covid-19 self enforced isolation.  Agree the Genesis appears to be a competitor.  One reason we would not change is our experience with service at our Lincoln dealer.  We had a 2008 MKX that they serviced throughout its 100,000 mile plus life with us.  We never had take it back for any repair.  The only non-wear item replaced was an alternator that failed just short of 100,000 miles.  Always had a loaner for us too.  Yet another variable to consider.  

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Hello Wheeling sir, go with Aviator Reserve II but wait until 2021 model year.

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Posted (edited)

My feelings exactly that going to be a lemon.   Our local lincoln dealer is going out of business,  so getting a lemon 

worked on will be at the Ford dealership.   They said could since its just a Ford.  Only reason hanging in there

like the looks a little better than an XT6.  All my cadillacs have been great, even the 18 escalade trading.

 

AT the moment sticking with the aviator order,   if get a text saying,  just cant get the order, will

high tail it to the local Caddy place. 

 

Thinking quality will take a step backwards.  With the Coronavirus.  factory idled,   people distracted with the disease,  parts

available,   on an on.    If like me and find have a problem car will just take it to Cadillac and trade it in,  no messing with

warranty.   Than go with the aviator.    If breakdown going to be an issue for you,  having to keep the car,   go with something else

 

ADD,   on waiting till 2021,   its just going to be a roll over.   Maybe by the last part of 2021 issues will be addressed.   Otherwise

just a problem late model 2020 rolling into early 2021 ?????

Edited by texcen

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15 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

From the article:
 

Quote

But most important for a luxury car, the Aviator succeeds in elevating beyond its source material. The XT6 leaves the impression of a well-equipped Chevy in a new suit—the Aviator is a refined luxury machine that's unrecognizable as the Explorer on which it's based.

Cadillac: You've got some work to do.

 

Ouch....

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Don't get me wrong, I really like the Aviator, nothing is close to it on the market. Just worried about the quality. And I typically keep my ride for 8 years. so trouble-free is important for me. And can't wait for 2021 model. Son needs my current car for school by the fall. 

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38 minutes ago, Wheeling said:

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Aviator, nothing is close to it on the market. Just worried about the quality. And I typically keep my ride for 8 years. so trouble-free is important for me. And can't wait for 2021 model. Son needs my current car for school by the fall. 

 

Thanks again Wheeling sir. Knowing that reliability is very important to you and that you won't be able to wait for 2021 model year, Genesis GV80 would be the way to go. While all automakers run into issues with newly designed vehicles in their first model year, Genesis does a better job than most other brands maintaining high quality for new vehicle launches.

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31 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thanks again Wheeling sir. Knowing that reliability is very important to you and that you won't be able to wait for 2021 model year, Genesis GV80 would be the way to go. While all automakers run into issues with newly designed vehicles in their first model year, Genesis does a better job than most other brands maintaining high quality for new vehicle launches.

 

There is no data to conclude that a Genesis GV80 would be more reliable over 8 years than an Aviator.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

There is no data to conclude that a Genesis GV80 would be more reliable over 8 years than an Aviator.

 

Publicly available GV80 specific reliability data with good sample sizes aren't available yet, as this model was just introduced. Similar Aviator specific data is also hard to come by. Right now, the best data available is at the brand and manufacturer level. Genesis has consistently been among the most trouble free car brands in the past few years, better than Lincoln. More importantly for Wheeling's concerns, Genesis achieved above average reliability for all of their new models even in their first year. That bodes well for GV80. Lincoln's 1st year quality record for new/redesigned models introduced 2016-2019 has been mixed. Continental did well, MKX and Navigator less so.

 

J.D. Power IQS 2020 results should come out in the next month or so. Consumer Reports Automotive Reliability results for 2020 should be ready in late fall 2020.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Publicly available GV80 specific reliability data with good sample sizes aren't available yet, as this model was just introduced. Similar Aviator specific data is also hard to come by. Right now, the best data available is at the brand and manufacturer level. Genesis has consistently been among the most trouble free car brands in the past few years, better than Lincoln. More importantly for Wheeling's concerns, Genesis achieved above average reliability for all of their new models even in their first year. That bodes well for GV80. Lincoln's 1st year quality record for new/redesigned models introduced 2016-2019 has been mixed. Continental did well, MKX and Navigator less so.

 

J.D. Power IQS 2020 results should come out in the next month or so. Consumer Reports Automotive Reliability results for 2020 should be ready in late fall 2020.

 

IQS is meaningless for someone keeping a vehicle 8 years.  I don't expect Genesis to be bad and I don't expect Aviator to be great, just saying that neither one has a long track record at this point.

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54 minutes ago, akirby said:

 I don't expect Genesis to be bad and I don't expect Aviator to be great, just saying that neither one has a long track record at this point.

 

Yes sir akirby, I agree. With the extremely limited reliability data available for the 2 specific vehicles Wheeling is interested in, there's some risk reliability wise in choosing either Aviator or GV80. Both are completely new/redesigned products. It's just that the brand specific data that is available from J.D. Power and Consumer Reports suggests that the risk is lower with the Genesis.

 

Lexus RX 350L is probably the best 3-row midsize premium crossover in terms of being trouble free long term. But it looks and feels kinda old even with the 2020 refresh, and is nowhere near as nice overall as Aviator or GV80.

 

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6 hours ago, Wheeling said:

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Aviator, nothing is close to it on the market. Just worried about the quality. And I typically keep my ride for 8 years. so trouble-free is important for me. And can't wait for 2021 model. Son needs my current car for school by the fall. 

 

 

If you spend 30 minutes doing online research of the extremely poor launch and poor quality issues with the 2020 Explorer and 2020 Aviator, I think you’ll realize ANY 2020 Ford or Lincoln product built at the Chicago plant could have many, many quality issues.

 

Have you ever heard of an auto manufacturer trucking thousands and thousands of new vehicle to another plant, in another state, to have numerous defects repaired?  Ford even admitted the quality and launch issues with its latest SEC filing.

 

I own a 2015 Ford Expedition Limited 4x4, purchased new, and have never owned a Lincoln.  But, I would not consider any 2020 model of the Explorer or Aviator, due to the poor quality and manufacturing repeatedly reported by the media.

 

Good luck in your decision.

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20 hours ago, Wheeling said:

If not for Covid-19, I would have been a proud owner or Aviator Reserve II. I was hoping that even Lincoln blew up the launch of the Aviator and lost control on quality, by May or June of 2020, the production bugs should be mostly worked out and I should have bought a decent quality product. But the pandemic changed everything. Ford has shut down the Chicago plant due to infection of the disease only days after reopen. I have lost confidence that Lincoln can get the quality under control in the next couple of months when I have to buy a new ride. 

Since I heard of Aviator, my eyes and mind were hooked, I liked everything it offers. I've compared almost all the models in the price range with the Aviator and decided the Aviator is the one I want.  I first was interested in the GT, but the short pure EV range turned me off. I settled on the Reserve II, just waiting for the right time. The worry about the build quality and the horror stories really scared me. I don't know whether I should jump or not. There is really nothing on the market that even remotely comparable to the Aviator. But I don't want a vehicle that spend more time in the shop than on the road. 

So I started digging, and find out there may be one alternative, the Genesis GV80, very nicely equipped, if not better, slightly cheaper, but with top reputation for quality.  It will be on sale in the next couple of months. If you are in my shoes, which one will you buy? 

here is one link for the GV80  https://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/gv80/2021/2021-genesis-gv80-first-drive-review/

  

 

I can't speak to everyone else's negative experiences with earlier build Aviators, but as the proud owner (or lessee rather) of an Aviator GT (built Dec 5, 2019) I can definitely say that my experience has been excellent and have not had any build/quality issues, you have only to read my many posts at various topics in the forum to that effect.

 

I would highly recommend to go with the Aviator over the Genesis GV80.  If you decide to the go with the Aviator I would urge you to reconsider the GT PHEV.  I had the opportunity to test drive a regular gas Aviator Reserve II at the dealer before I put in the order for my GT and it drove great but I'm so glad I went with the GT for the performance and efficiency it was well worth it.  Especially if you will be towing with the vehicle than you will appreciate the added torque and incredible fuel efficiency of the PHEV powertrain while towing.  Don't be discouraged at seemingly low EV range numbers either, it is just an estimate.  The PHEV system has excellent regen braking capability that allows you to recharge the battery while decelerating or braking and it makes a big impact on extending the range while driving, especially in city driving or stop-go traffic.  The EV range is heavily affected by how you drive and external temperature, if you live in a milder climate you will get better range.  I'm in Toronto and I found driving in the harsh Canadian winter climate does cause about a 15-20% decrease in range when cabin heating or defrost is required.  Now that it's almost summer and warmer here I'm getting much better than the "official" EV range of 34km and can stretch that to about 40-42km on a full charge and that's with the A/C running.  So the actual EV range will vary, and you can get better than official numbers, at least I do.

 

If you decide on an Aviator, try hard and find a dealer that has a GT model in inventory and will let you test drive it.  (Good luck finding a dealer with a GT in stock, I hear they are still very scarce)  Make sure to test drive both a regular gas model AND the GT if you can to see the difference.  If they will let you test drive a GT insist that they have it charged ahead of time so you can try it in both Pure EV mode and also in Excite mode, you will be impressed! 

 

There are too many things to list that make the Aviator such a great vehicle, but if I had to pick my top ones would be:  Interior design, Heads Up Display, Air suspension.

 

 

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I doubt they will be readily available at the end of summer, but are you sure school is going to reopen?  With the wave of protesters doing their thing, we will either have a large COVID outbreak or a CDC with egg on their face.  

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55 minutes ago, mustangchief said:

I doubt they will be readily available at the end of summer, but are you sure school is going to reopen?  With the wave of protesters doing their thing, we will either have a large COVID outbreak or a CDC with egg on their face.  

That is the thing I'm betting, if I can wait for 2021 model, that may work. I really love the Aviator. 

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Posted (edited)

How many miles a year does one have to drive for a EV, to be worth it.   When got my Cadillac,   they had a EV sedan.

The salesman was against them due to range.   I drive about 2,000 miles a years.   Thought be good for me ???

 

If do get an aviator, Just run local around town. .   Interested in a Tesla,  not being green,   just hate trips to the gas station.

Not sure on all electric yet.

 

Added

Any mods or people working at the plant know if any aviators have come off the line.    Place where have the order

has sold none,   all what had before the chinese sent a present.   A place in Dallas still show 95 or 100.    So 

plenty out there if someone wants one on the lot

 

 

Edited by texcen

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