Ford Uninvited TFL From The Upcoming 2021 Ford F-150 & Bronco Reveals

[silvrsvt]

5 minutes ago, tbone said:

Isn’t that old info?

 

 

It looked like an actual BIW part, not a rendering.

[akirby]

10 minutes ago, tbone said:

I don’t think you realize how much positive Ford messaging TFL has given to Ford, which hasn’t cost Ford a dime.  Contrary to your position, I hope they repair their relationship. 

 

I don't think you realize just how little that matters to sales.

 

Didn't they pan the Explorer - retail sales up 12%!

[rmc523]

17 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

It looked like an actual BIW part, not a rendering.

 

 

I thought you were talking about the CAD rendering too, but this looks like an actual stamping.

Edited July 8, 2020 by rmc523

[atomcat68]

I'll chime in on this subject as I have contacted Ford about using a CAD model for a 1969 Mustang for my film. When I applied to use the CAD model I did have to write for them and explain how it would be used in the film. The car is a treasured family heirloom and factors extensively to the plot of the film. I did promise not to paint the car in a negative light.

 

Now imagine if I depicted the car as a car that had to be towed away or wouldn't start at the worst possible moment for a cheap joke. Ford would probably terminate any future dealings with me and they wouldn't be in the wrong as I made a promise to them of how I would portray something so important to their heritage.

 

TFL also had rules spelled out in front of them on how and when to use information they acquired. They chose to violate it. I don't feel sorry for them at all. Believe me, it was all spelled out in front of them. They knew in great detail what to do and what not to do.

 

As for my film, I hope it sells a thousand more Mustangs and thank you Ford for that CAD model! 

[kyle]

7 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

 

 

TFL also had rules spelled out in front of them on how and when to use information they acquired. They chose to violate it. I don't feel sorry for them at all. Believe me, it was all spelled out in front of them. They knew in great detail what to do and what not to do.

 

As for my film, I hope it sells a thousand more Mustangs and thank you Ford for that CAD model! 

 

TFL discussed this a little yesterday-they indicated they did not violate any written agreement, nor have they ever done so, when an OEM sends over information that is embargoed.  They always respect those written agreements. This is something that does not apply to their agreement. I don't know for sure, but it seems to me, unlikely that they have another agreement that tells them not to publish other information that they have. 

 

Good luck on the Mustang project!!!!

[fuzzymoomoo]

43 minutes ago, tbone said:

Isn’t that old info?

 

I don’t think you realize how much positive Ford messaging TFL has given to Ford, which hasn’t cost Ford a dime.  Contrary to your position, I hope they repair their relationship. 

I was hoping for that too, but the fact that they were not only warned but actually punished for leaking this kind of stuff tells me they don't really care about long established rules and are only out for themselves 

 

fuck them 

[atomcat68]

3 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

TFL discussed this a little yesterday-they indicated they did not violate any written agreement, nor have they ever done so, when an OEM sends over information that is embargoed.  They always respect those written agreements. This is something that does not apply to their agreement. I don't know for sure, but it seems to me, unlikely that they have another agreement that tells them not to publish other information that they have. 

 

Good luck on the Mustang project!!!!

TFL may "say" that, but trust me, they knew what they could and couldn't do. It was pretty spelled out to me as a small independent filmmaker, it was spelled out to them to as an automotive journalist group who deals with sensitive info. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

TFL discussed this a little yesterday-they indicated they did not violate any written agreement, nor have they ever done so, when an OEM sends over information that is embargoed.  They always respect those written agreements. This is something that does not apply to their agreement. I don't know for sure, but it seems to me, unlikely that they have another agreement that tells them not to publish other information that they have. 

 

Good luck on the Mustang project!!!!

Any time you have a CAD drawing or prototype model that isn't camouflaged and the public isn't meant to see it yet is a problem. There's a reason it's not meant to be seen yet. Even if there is no written embargo it should still automatically apply. About the only way they shouldn't be punished is if they can prove it didn't come from within the company or its suppliers (in both cases, extremely doubtful) but then you run into all kinds of journalistic ethics over sourcing that any publication worth a damn would protect

 

 

[kyle]

1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Any time you have a CAD drawing or prototype model that isn't camouflaged and the public isn't meant to see it yet is a problem. There's a reason it's not meant to be seen yet. Even if there is no written embargo it should still automatically apply. About the only way they shouldn't be punished is if they can prove it didn't come from within the company or its suppliers (in both cases, extremely doubtful) but then you run into all kinds of journalistic ethics over sourcing that any publication worth a damn would protect

 

 

 

I get that but who was it, Jim Dunne, who would literally hang from branches outside of Milford proving grounds or all the other spots to get a picture of a vehicle that is not meant to be seen by the public. Every spy shot, etc. than comes into play, including the interior pics that were just released yesterday. Will that site lose it's priviliges? 

I even question whether any of these spy shots are not orchestrated by Ford and not by chance some pics of the interior just came about. 

 

At the end of the day, I really don't give a crap-they need to kiss some Ford ass and repair that relationship. In the meantime, we have almost another 12 months before these things will be even in the market place-that is more of the story than TFL. 

[Bryan1]

"I hope TFL and Ford smooth things over."

 

This is how TFL is "smoothing" things over...full interior pictures! Roman says he is a little nervous.

 

June 7, 2018

Spied: New 2021 Ford Bronco Interior Revealed 

 

https://youtu.be/fz8qUKDYaxQ

 

 

[kyle]

7 minutes ago, Bryan1 said:

"I hope TFL and Ford smooth things over."

 

This is how TFL is "smoothing" things over...full interior pictures! Roman says he is a little nervous.

 

June 7, 2018

Spied: New 2021 Ford Bronco Interior Revealed 

 

https://youtu.be/fz8qUKDYaxQ

 

 

 

Ya but these are reposted from another site.....and were everywhere!  Not quite the same thing:)  Plus, like his son said, what are they going to do to us!  

[fuzzymoomoo]

18 minutes ago, kyle said:

I get that but who was it, Jim Dunne, who would literally hang from branches outside of Milford proving grounds or all the other spots to get a picture of a vehicle that is not meant to be seen by the public. 

Something like a prototype body panel in white metal wouldn't be anywhere near a place that a spy photographer would ever be able to catch it. Stuff like that is so buried in the depths of Dearborn R&D that in a lot of cases they’re only moved under cover of night in sealed trucks that only very specific people have access to. 
 

22 minutes ago, kyle said:

I even question whether any of these spy shots are not orchestrated by Ford and not by chance some pics of the interior just came about. 

Some are and some aren't. It all depends on how much camo they have on them. Those interior shots that came out where the camo just so happened to be conveniently peeled back probably were. Bronco6g and other similar forums almost always get approval before releasing rounds of spy shots like that, and if a user goes rogue and posts them without Ford approval, they're quick to pull them. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

Ya but these are reposted from another site.....and were everywhere!  Not quite the same thing:)  Plus, like his son said, what are they going to do to us!  

They'll just never get press releases before reveals ever again. TFL will have to do the same thing Jalopnik does and write their reveal articles in real time as the reveal happens and hope they get a chance later on to do an engineering deep dive. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

I should add re: prototypes in white metal 

 

When prototypes do make it to the plant for line configuration/setup and what not, any time they’re out in the open they're under a cover unless they're actively being worked with and most of the work pre-reveal is done on weekends when minimal people are around. 

[Bryan1]

21 minutes ago, kyle said:

 

Plus, like his son said, what are they going to do to us!  

 

Never work with Ford again? His son just graduated from college last year. He is a good kid but he doesn't know every damn thing.

[jpd80]

28 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I should add re: prototypes in white metal 

 

When prototypes do make it to the plant for line configuration/setup and what not, any time they’re out in the open they're under a cover unless they're actively being worked with and most of the work pre-reveal is done on weekends when minimal people are around. 

Id imaging that it wouldn't be all that hard for Ford to work out who's taking photos inside their plants,

and after hearing how their people also watch social media, it's no wonder why employees  "say nothing" anymore

except general encouragement.

Edited July 8, 2020 by jpd80

[tbone]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

 

I don't think you realize just how little that matters to sales.

 

Didn't they pan the Explorer - retail sales up 12%!

I really don’t know what impact TFL has on sales. They have 765k subscribers, which isn’t a minuscule amount, and an unknown amount of random viewers. I’d imagine they are reaching some people, and generally their Ford message is positive.  I would call that beneficial to Ford. 
 

I did a cursory look for their 2020 Explorer reviews and did not find a negative review.  Perhaps there is one, and you can augment your argument, as I just didn’t see it. 
 

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter, because Ford will do what they do, which is why I hope they repair their relationship because I generally like their reviews and I like Ford.   Call me selfish I guess.  

[Flying68]

I just cant work out why everyone is pissed at TFL and yet doesn't seem to care that the pictures and information had to come from someone inside. Any news organization, including YouTube media, is allowed to publish anything they receive through legal means.  Nothing they have published was covered by any written or unwritten agreement. If you want them to stop publishing leaked images, start firing employees that take those photos.

 

FYI anonymous remailer services exist so TFL can't tell if it came from Bill Ford himself or from some random other person.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

I really don’t know what impact TFL has on sales. They have 765k subscribers, which isn’t a minuscule amount, and an unknown amount of random viewers. I’d imagine they are reaching some people, and generally their Ford message is positive.  I would call that beneficial to Ford. 
 

I did a cursory look for their 2020 Explorer reviews and did not find a negative review.  Perhaps there is one, and you can augment your argument, as I just didn’t see it. 
 

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter, because Ford will do what they do, which is why I hope they repair their relationship because I generally like their reviews and I like Ford.   Call me selfish I guess.  

I agree they need to make up just for entertainment purposes.  I don’t agree that not making up will hurt Ford.

[akirby]

26 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

I just cant work out why everyone is pissed at TFL and yet doesn't seem to care that the pictures and information had to come from someone inside. Any news organization, including YouTube media, is allowed to publish anything they receive through legal means.  Nothing they have published was covered by any written or unwritten agreement. If you want them to stop publishing leaked images, start firing employees that take those photos.

 

FYI anonymous remailer services exist so TFL can't tell if it came from Bill Ford himself or from some random other person.

It’s not that we don’t care - that’s a private matter that Ford is handling internally and I guarantee there will be consequences if they find out who did it.  We just won’t hear about it.  They cracked down on employee leaks over a decade ago.  Blue oval news had a big blow up with Ford over it.  

 

And you still don’t understand the difference between a legal issue and a partnership issue.  TFL was given access to non public things like test facilities and pre production vehicles.  That is a privilege.  When you have a relationship like that and somebody sends you pics that are obviously unauthorized then you call Ford and get permission.  Or at the very least you take them down immediately when Ford asks.  
 

Pretend your neighbor is a friend and you let him borrow tools all the time.  Then one day you find out he posted naked pictures of your wife on the internet.  Are you still going to invite him over for bbqs and let him borrow your tools?

[tbone]

26 minutes ago, akirby said:

I agree they need to make up just for entertainment purposes.  I don’t agree that not making up will hurt Ford.

Fair enough. 

[Flying68]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

It’s not that we don’t care - that’s a private matter that Ford is handling internally and I guarantee there will be consequences if they find out who did it.  We just won’t hear about it.  They cracked down on employee leaks over a decade ago.  Blue oval news had a big blow up with Ford over it.  

 

And you still don’t understand the difference between a legal issue and a partnership issue.  TFL was given access to non public things like test facilities and pre production vehicles.  That is a privilege.  When you have a relationship like that and somebody sends you pics that are obviously unauthorized then you call Ford and get permission.  Or at the very least you take them down immediately when Ford asks.  
 

Pretend your neighbor is a friend and you let him borrow tools all the time.  Then one day you find out he posted naked pictures of your wife on the internet.  Are you still going to invite him over for bbqs and let him borrow your tools?

I guess I haven't seen the videos that showed they were given access to anything that other Automotive journalists weren't invited to as well or weren't part of the organized media campaign on vehicle launches.

 

In my world we invite industry press all the time to test our product before it is publicly available.  It is important to allow that independent evaluation because it builds credibility in the product.

 

Your analogy doesn't really apply. The only way he would have had naked pictures would be if he took them without permission (illegally) or I or the wife sent them to him.

 

Ford is well within their right to control who the give special access to, but for people outside the blue oval bubble, Ford looks petty and short sighted, especially considering the volume of leaked pictures that have been all over prior to the ones TFL was sent.  And if you read some of the comments on the TFL articles, people are complaining that they are being shills for Ford products because of the amount of coverage they give.

 

Just my opinion, but it seems that several people seem to be taking this personally like they themselves have been violated. I look at it from a shareholder and enthusiast standpoint. Those leeks won't affect the bottom line or competitive advantage and serve to keep interest up. I am sure going to miss seeing Ford compete in the Golden Hitch competition or seeing some real world comparisons. But I will keep watching regardless.

[Bryan1]

3 hours ago, Flying68 said:

I guess I haven't seen the videos that showed they were given access to anything that other Automotive journalists weren't invited to as well or weren't part of the organized media campaign on vehicle launches.

 

In my world we invite industry press all the time to test our product before it is publicly available.  It is important to allow that independent evaluation because it builds credibility in the product.

 

Your analogy doesn't really apply.

 

See the previous post from the Ford engineer:

 

"Additionally, we were told that you have been given special privileges from Ford in the past, including use of Ford's Arizona Proving Grounds, early media access to the 2020 Super Duty, etc. They felt that this was a breach of trust after establishing a good relationship with you guys."

[fuzzymoomoo]

I wonder if the same people bitching at Ford about this would have the same opinion if GM or FCA were in the same spot? 

[Flying68]

21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I wonder if the same people bitching at Ford about this would have the same opinion if GM or FCA were in the same spot? 

Yes, it is counter productive for any company to blacklist their industry media. There is no positive that can come from it. Preventing leaks is a you responsibility not a them responsibility.