Stray Kat Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, akirby said: I guess theoretically they could use the Aviator GT motor and batteries with the 5.0/5.2 or the HO 3.5. Just seems easier to go with the GT500 powertrain. It's on the shelf and should bolt right in. Don’t get me wrong a 5.2 Predator engine would be cool but that is a bunch of money. I like the 3.5EB/Hybrid 10spd or the 445 Thunderjet/10spd with emphasis on the latter because I suspect it’s cheaper to produce. Remember people weren’t asking for a 700 hp Raptor they wanted a V8 Raptor. That Hellcat engine is cool but for heaven’s sake what kind of warranty costs does that engine line impose on FCA? Those things retail for over 20K a pop in a crate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, akirby said: I guess theoretically they could use the Aviator GT motor and batteries with the 5.0/5.2 or the HO 3.5. Just seems easier to go with the GT500 powertrain. It's on the shelf and should bolt right in. The question is which transmission does it get though? I doubt the DCT from the Shelby would be preferred for that application as-is. Do they stick with the 10R or rework the DCT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Stray Kat said: No not in my opinion. Two long tight fitting rotors in an aluminum blower case are very vulnerable to abrasives. I think turbos can pass the really fine stuff much easier. Did FCA take these to Abu Dahbi and test them where most of them will go? Dust will eat turbine blades in a turbo too. Years ago Ford sent us laminated color charts showing the turbine blades worn off a turbo for a 7.3 Powerstroke from dust from poor filters. No warranty. Use a good filter and change it when needed. Don't be cheap. Local construction company ran cheap filters that tore along the sealing edge. The bought a couple of turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, akirby said: I guess theoretically they could use the Aviator GT motor and batteries with the 5.0/5.2 or the HO 3.5. Just seems easier to go with the GT500 powertrain. It's on the shelf and should bolt right in. Would a Hybrid/PHEV option add too much weight? Is it durable enough to do Raptor like things? If it doesn't add too much weight and is durable, that just adds to the Ford arsenal. It also would be the high tech option vs the lower tech "just throw a blower on a big hemi V8". I would imagine we will find out in week, right? I'm still thinking we'll get a base Raptor similar to what is offered now and a Raptor R with unique high powered engine. Edited August 17, 2020 by jcartwright99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, akirby said: I guess theoretically they could use the Aviator GT motor and batteries with the 5.0/5.2 or the HO 3.5. Just seems easier to go with the GT500 powertrain. It's on the shelf and should bolt right in. Given what the 3.5L Ecoboost can do and then add in the hybrid/A10 combo can do, it wouldn’t take much to beat it. The GT puts out over 600 HP and the PHEV setup puts out about 100hp/100 ftlb alone in the Aviator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Given what the 3.5L Ecoboost can do and then add in the hybrid/A10 combo can do, it wouldn’t take much to beat it. The GT puts out over 600 HP and the PHEV setup puts out about 100hp/100 ftlb alone in the Aviator. I forgot about the GT's 3.5 power levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, rmc523 said: I forgot about the GT's 3.5 power levels. I think the Ecoboost might be a better fit then a SuperCharged 5.2L V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 9 hours ago, MY93SHO said: It's over 80 inches wide so it has to have them. Raptor has them in the grille. Well they didn’t want to directly copy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 9 hours ago, akirby said: 1 and 3 makes the most sense to me. Keep the current one and add the R model with the supercharged 5.2L. Yes, this definitely makes the most sense to me. The Ram is already starting at $71,690, which is way higher than a base Raptor. Ford has a great opportunity to show the Ram who the boss is here on many fronts, and cover all the price points. I’m very surprised the Ram didn’t have a 500hp Hemi to allow it to have a cheaper starting point. I think the TRX looks good, it has the sound, and the power numbers, but It’s not as exciting as I thought it would be. From a performance perspective, it only beat the current Raptor’s 5.5 seconds 0-60 and it’s quarter-mile in 13.8 seconds, by 1 second, respectively, with that power advantage? I was surprised by that. Certainly nothing to sneeze at in a truck, but surprising nonetheless. I can’t wait to see what Ford has in store in response to this. Ram is sure talking a lot of smack right now, but they better be careful what’s lurking around the corner, that those little T-Rex arms can’t handle. One thing is for sure, the competition will certainly make for better trucks for everyone, although I suspect I know who will come out on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 9 hours ago, rmc523 said: You forgot the PowerBoost 3.5 EB they could boost up too. It'd be great if Ford immediately stomped on TRX with the GT500 engine, but I'm not sure I see that happening. Well, I suspect Ford has known the Ram was coming with this motor for a while, so I just can’t see how that wouldn’t have been the obvious solution, unless they do come out with some kind of performance hybrid powertrain. I honestly feel the crowd that buys these trucks want the V8, so the solution is simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 9 hours ago, rmc523 said: You forgot the PowerBoost 3.5 EB they could boost up too. It'd be great if Ford immediately stomped on TRX with the GT500 engine, but I'm not sure I see that happening. I think Ford needs to move quickly with a response. The fact the TRX has a V8 is going to gaurantee they will sell every unit they can build, regardless of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 8 hours ago, MKX1960 said: I think Ford needs to move quickly with a response. The fact the TRX has a V8 is going to gaurantee they will sell every unit they can build, regardless of the price. You think the "gotta have a V8" crowd will drop $75K-$90K on a truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 8 hours ago, MKX1960 said: I think Ford needs to move quickly with a response. The fact the TRX has a V8 is going to gaurantee they will sell every unit they can build, regardless of the price. I agree, they will sell everyone of them because it has a V8, but also because it’s an all new model that people will have to have and will be unique for a while. Considering Ford is releasing an all new 2021 Raptor at the same time as the rest of the 2021 F150s suggests they are aware of the threat considering the Raptor models have been staggered during the past launches of new models. Now we just have to play the wait and see as to what they will do to match the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Given what the 3.5L Ecoboost can do and then add in the hybrid/A10 combo can do, it wouldn’t take much to beat it. The GT puts out over 600 HP and the PHEV setup puts out about 100hp/100 ftlb alone in the Aviator. Actually the Aviator's nano electric motor is a 75 kW maximum output which is ~100.6 Hp. It has ~234.7 lb-ft @ 2250 rpm. Max power drops to 94 hp at 5500 rpm. EM's are constant torque until they hit their max power output then are constant power until they hit their current limit, so some quick math says using the 3.5 H.O. motor plus the 75 kW nano EM, you could end up with ~550 hp@5000 rpm and at least 660 ft-lb@3500 rpm, but would likely be around 700 lb-ft@2250 rpm depending on the torque curve of the H.O. The Ford GT engine's peak numbers are at such high RPM the EM wouldn't necessarily add any additional power, but it would make for a super flat torque curve and gobs of lower RPM power. Edited August 18, 2020 by Flying68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 25 minutes ago, akirby said: You think the "gotta have a V8" crowd will drop $75K-$90K on a truck? Andre/ TFL built one that was just shy of $100k, add taxes and you're well over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Raptor costs less enough that they don't need to match HP to HP. For those that want to spend more, they get more. If Ford wants to get into more rarified air for pricing, sure they can offer a hipo V8 or whatever, but I'm not sure it is totally necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Anthony said: Raptor costs less enough that they don't need to match HP to HP. For those that want to spend more, they get more. If Ford wants to get into more rarified air for pricing, sure they can offer a hipo V8 or whatever, but I'm not sure it is totally necessary. Agreed - it’s not necessary but we’ve seen Ford go after several limited volume high cost vehicles (Continental, gt500, GT special editions) and I think they’ll want a piece of that pie even if it’s small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 3 hours ago, MY93SHO said: Andre/ TFL built one that was just shy of $100k, add taxes and you're well over that. I didn’t realize they were going price out that high. That’s an incredible price. Unfortunately, I suspect it will be putting it out of the reach of the average consumer. I suppose Ford will have an R model or something to that affect in that price range as well now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan7 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 First up, great competition. This should force both companies into doing things that will make themselves better and the consumer have great choices to make. I think Ford should definitely use some type of V-8 as the top-level Raptor for sure. If they can use the GT500 V-8 with similar or the same power numbers as the GT500, that Raptor will completely destroy the TRX with its weight advantage. I could see a higher performance Raptor like this costing $70K plus like the TRX. Then, the "standard" Raptor using the HO Ecoboost as it currently does, but with more power. The cost here should rise, as it is a new truck and the smaller configuration is supposedly going away. I see this truck going for a lowest price if the high $50K's. And let's not forget the Ranger Raptor, which should be arriving soon as well. I believe that is rumored to be coming with the 2.7L Ecoboost from the Bronco and F-150. I think that could cover some of the lower end of the Raptor spectrum. Maybe like mid- to high $40K's starting price. That I do not know. Already, rumors are starting that Ram will offer a lower-powered TRX, so Ford will have to be ready for fierce competition. I have no doubt Ford will rise to the occasion however. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Let’s be reasonable here fellas. The lineup will be Raptor with a 3.5EB, a V8 option will be the 445 Thunderjet at 500/500 and the Raptor R will be 445 Thunderjet with “Powereboost” hybrid technology at 700/700. How could they go wrong with that ^^^? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, Stray Kat said: Let’s be reasonable here fellas. The lineup will be Raptor with a 3.5EB, a V8 option will be the 445 ThunderRaptorJet at 500/500 and the Raptor R will be 445 ThunderRaptorJet with “Powerboost” hybrid technology at 700/700. How could they go wrong with that ^^^? Mmm, better now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 On 8/18/2020 at 7:23 AM, akirby said: You think the "gotta have a V8" crowd will drop $75K-$90K on a truck? Apparently "yes" >$90K no problem for the first group of buyers... https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1129318_the-92-010-ram-1500-trx-launch-edition-sold-out-in-3-hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 On 8/18/2020 at 1:10 PM, Broncofan7 said: Already, rumors are starting that Ram will offer a lower-powered TRX, so Ford will have to be ready for fierce competition. I have no doubt Ford will rise to the occasion however. They would be stupid not to. The last Rumor I heard was a 500+ hp Hemi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan7 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, tbone said: They would be stupid not to. The last Rumor I heard was a 500+ hp Hemi. Definitely. Ford's response surrounding the HO 3.5L should be interesting as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Broncofan7 said: Definitely. Ford's response surrounding the HO 3.5L should be interesting as well. I believe they could easily tune it to 550 without impacting much. We know the motor is capable of at least 650hp from the factory at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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