California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

[FordBuyer]

2 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

I'm sure the Californians don't....including my daughter.

Yeah, we have a son in Berkley and a daughter in SanFransisco. Everytime there is an earthquake or wildfire nearby, we take notice. Now add in the virus and wtf. We live in a wtf world. 

[7Mary3]

4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

No doubt when you look  at the simplicity it makes a lot of sense.  I'm assuming by 2024, to keep pace with this aggressive implementation plan, Newsom will  have solved the states electrical distribution  issues so they can avoid rolling brown outs and when all the electrics are parked at the end of the day or shift, they will have limitless power.

 

Too bad things can't be done at a measured pace.  But that makes too much sense.  In particular if so much of this will one way or another have "incentives" that taxpayers in other jurisdictions  that have no problem, will be footing the bill subsidizing the program.

 

That's why I added a link to the autoblog article, it's a lot clearer and less misleading than the yahoo article.  2024 is the start of the phase in.  Full implementation isn't until 2045.  I think the schedule is aggressive and will likely be adjusted somewhat, and infrastructure is an issue.  But it is being worked on.  

[Harley Lover]

5 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

That's why I added a link to the autoblog article, it's a lot clearer and less misleading than the yahoo article.  2024 is the start of the phase in.  Full implementation isn't until 2045.  I think the schedule is aggressive and will likely be adjusted somewhat, and infrastructure is an issue.  But it is being worked on.  

 

Agree, the headline is disingenuous click bait garbage. Here's another article that supports what Autoblog says:  https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/06/california-set-to-ban-all-heavy-diesel-trucks-and-vans-by-2045/

[rperez817]

22 hours ago, rmc523 said:

So why not let it shift itself if they're so good? 

 

Automotive and transportation industries, including manufacturing of commercial trucks and vans, are heavily regulated in the U.S. By aligning regulations with the industry's own end game (100% electric), and by providing businesses with greater certainty for future product planning, governments can help these industries reach the goal faster. That's what CARB is doing.

[rperez817]

18 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

My concern is that California is more or less dictating what the rest of the country can do vs EPA, which is at the federal level. 

 

Solution is simple. Have EPA, NHTSA, and other federal government bodies involved in air pollution and GHG regulations adopt the CARB ZEV standards for passenger cars & light trucks and for commercial trucks and vans in all 50 states.

 

This approach has been applied before. For example, the current EPA Tier 3 standards for criteria pollutants match that of CARB LEV III. So automakers can use one set of standards for the whole U.S.

Edited June 28, 2020 by rperez817

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Solution is simple. Have EPA, NHTSA, and other federal government bodies involved in air pollution and GHG regulations adopt the CARB ZEV standards for passenger cars & light trucks and for commercial trucks and vans in all 50 states.

 

This approach has been applied before. For example, the current EPA Tier 3 standards for criteria pollutants match that of CARB LEV III. So automakers can use one set of standards for the whole U.S.

You’re gonna have to wait until after the Trump administration is out of office for that to happen.

[twintornados]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

You’re gonna have to wait until after the Trump administration is out of office for that to happen.

 

That's either gonna happen in 6 months or 4 years and 6 months....

[silvrsvt]

6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Solution is simple. Have EPA, NHTSA, and other federal government bodies involved in air pollution and GHG regulations adopt the CARB ZEV standards for passenger cars & light trucks and for commercial trucks and vans in all 50 states.

 

This approach has been applied before. For example, the current EPA Tier 3 standards for criteria pollutants match that of CARB LEV III. So automakers can use one set of standards for the whole U.S.

 

Without digging into it too much...what was exactly the difference? Also what was the technical ability to make it happen?

 

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think BEVs are going to be able to match gas cars in range in ALL weather conditions for at least another 10-15 years. 

 

The market is going to gradually move to BEVs, but the technical/battery production issues is much harder then making an ICE engine pollute less  with current tech. 

 

BEVs (in the US at least) are still 10 years out before becoming a practical car that doesn't give up anything to a gas powered car...and forcing people to buy something they don't want isn't going to fix things. 

[rperez817]

California's governor signed an executive order yesterday that bans the sale of new gasoline and diesel powered cars and trucks (including hybrids) in that state starting in 2035. For new vehicle sales, it's 100% ZEV (BEV, FCEV, or another zero emissions technology). https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-california-will-phase-out-gasoline-powered-cars-drastically-reduce-demand-for-fossil-fuel-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/

 

The governor signed the order on the hood of a Mustang Mach E.

 

[jasonj80]

Don't post Yahoo articles for some reason they never get updated when there are errors. They are banning them in 2035, not 2024. 2024 would be an impossible goal for anyone to meet. Also most EU continent will also be banning them in the 2035-2040 time frame so it is not without precedent. This is the reason Ford has so many electrics planned. If I were in an engine/transmission plant and early in my career I'd be looking at transferring; Many of Ford's Engine and Transmission facilities will not be around in the next 8-12 years.  

Edited September 24, 2020 by jasonj80

[silvrsvt]

12 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

Don't post Yahoo articles for some reason they never get updated when there are errors. They are banning them in 2035, not 2024. 2024 would be an impossible goal for anyone to meet. Also most EU continent will also be banning them in the 2035-2040 time frame so it is not without precedent. This is the reason Ford has so many electrics planned. If I were in an engine/transmission plant and early in my career I'd be looking at transferring; Many of Ford's Engine and Transmission facilities will not be around in the next 8-12 years.  

 

The original article posted was about large trucks, not cars.

 

Still trying to figure out how California is going to get the electricity to power all these vehicles, they seem to have issues now and aren't building their system out to fix that. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The original article posted was about large trucks, not cars.

 

Still trying to figure out how California is going to get the electricity to power all these vehicles, they seem to have issues now and aren't building their system out to fix that. 

To quote ICP:

 

"Pure Motherfucking Magic" 

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The original article posted was about large trucks, not cars.

 

Still trying to figure out how California is going to get the electricity to power all these vehicles, they seem to have issues now and aren't building their system out to fix that. 

 

Magic and unicorn farts.

[CKNSLS]

I reviewed the above posts-did anybody mention the "rolling brownouts" in the summertime in California due to high air conditioning use? Pair that with everyone plugging in their Ev's.................

[silvrsvt]

5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The original article posted was about large trucks, not cars.

 

Still trying to figure out how California is going to get the electricity to power all these vehicles, they seem to have issues now and aren't building their system out to fix that. 

 

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

To quote ICP:

 

"Pure Motherfucking Magic" 

 

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Magic and unicorn farts.

 

56 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

I reviewed the above posts-did anybody mention the "rolling brownouts" in the summertime in California due to high air conditioning use? Pair that with everyone plugging in their Ev's.................

 

See above in bold...

[jcartwright99]

It's amazing what politicians will say to make them look like they are doing something. When it's really just lip service to keep their gravy train going. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

38 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

It's amazing what politicians will say to make them look like they are doing something. When it's really just lip service to keep their gravy train going. 

Comrade Whitmer had a similar a proclamation too. I don't understand how it's supposed to help poor people like they claim but whatever, I guess were all dead in 10 years anyway... or something.... 

[jasonj80]

 

Ford launched this ad in California yesterday. This is one of the first ads where Ford calls out competitors by name. 

[rmc523]

And I'm not saying we can't do better environmentally (cleaner air, water, etc is good for everyone), but the demands and prohibitive regulations requiring EVs for everything in 15 years when they're already having problems NOW with the power grid just seem out of touch (but I guess it is California we're talking about).

 

You can have a goal, sure, but.....

[rperez817]

Brilliant ad, thanks for sharing jasonj80 sir. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, yesterday the governor of California used a red Mustang Mach E as a backdrop when he signed an executive order banning the sale of new gasoline and diesel powered cars and trucks in that state starting in 2035. Maybe Ford can take advantage of this for a follow-up ad.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by rperez817

[grbeck]

The state that can't generate enough electricity for home use is going to mandate that new vehicles use electricity. That makes sense. Or is the latter designed as a distraction from the former...?

[silvrsvt]

Not to mention that increased power generation is going to most likely cause other issues-since renewables aren't going to be able to make the same amount of power. 

 

All your doing is making it a single point of failure at this point. 

[ausrutherford]

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.

[probowler]

3 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.

Americans stopped caring about European policy and opinion when they crossed that great ocean to start a new society. Make a better argument, without the name-calling.

[silvrsvt]

Just now, ausrutherford said:

Europe is moving mostly at the same timetable. China is targeting 2050.

 

It's going to happen. Don't be a Luddite.

 

Never said that...I think the issue is that people aren't being realistic with it. 

 

I can see maybe in 15 years that EVs maybe have 10-20% of the market in NA...but not having an affordable model (Something under 30K at least at be able to make $$$$$ on it) is going to seriously impact market penetration. Then the given fact that cars last for 10-15 years and they are being coming so expensive that people are taking out 7 year loans to make the monthly payments...well you have a recipe for disaster at some point.

I also don't think ride sharing is going to viable...no one is going to want to share something that has $$$ value to them with someone else that might not take care of it as well or get in some random "pod" thingy that has puke or some other human fluids in it..and this is all before COVID happened.