California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

California is the poster child for making stupid decisions just because it makes them feel better.

its absolutely idiotic...my wife works for the DMV...she was recently handed a 10 % pay cut, 2 days mandated furloughs and no overtime...apparently the cutbacks were to assist in bolstering California's deficit. Newsome himself didn't take the pay cut apparently. I personally think they would have been better off launching a full blown audit to address misappropriation of funds into such questionable pet projects as Bullet trains to no where, Sanctuary cities, pandering to Illegal immigrants, a fleet of unused BMW I3's, etc etc ...list is long. Perhaps those funds could have been better utilized to bolster first responders regarding wildfire issues, addressing an antiquated electrical grid to avoid rolling blackouts during the yearly heat wave, let alone necessary PPEs if theres ever a pandemic...I literally feel like banging my head against a brick wall sometimes... 

[jasonj80]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'll believe that when I see it...in my area we've been hit by a couple major blackouts due to storms for the past 10 years and crews from out of state mention how out of date the equipment is...because the electric companies (and pretty much anyone else that is a utility) isn't investing in upgrading it because they are trying to maximize profits. 

 

While profits are part of the equation, the bigger issue is that states regulate what a utility can charge. To many times planned upgrades were too expensive for the regulators to approve as rates would go up too much for the poor. So things get kicked down the road, not burring lines, putting off transformer upgrades, and being reactive to suburban sprawl vs proactive. The proposed new Electrical building codes will require 50A 220V in garages for vehicle charging, the standard home server is going to be 200A. 

But it is also California, they won't care that there is a huge Coal/Natural gas power plants in Utah, Arizona, or New Mexico producing power for them. 

[7Mary3]

I think energy concerns are a one factor why the ZEV rollout is initially scheduled for 2035 for passenger vehicles and tentatively 2045 for 'most' commercial trucks.  A of of effort is being put into grin and generation upgrades in California, and it is expected that increased use of home solar will also help offset BEV power demands.  15 years is a long ways away, I think there is a good chance California will pull this off.  I also expect in 15 years BEV's will be so much better than ICE vehicles a mandate will not be necessary.  Also keep in mind ICE vehicles will still be legal to operate and resell after 2035, so they will not disappear overnight.

 

I think Newsome is doing this to take credit for something that is going to happen anyway to further his political career. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Black Label said:

Shapiro is already leaving. 

 

 

I know, that's why I cited him as an example  

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

New York City too

 

The value of my house has gone up 30-40K because of that..I live about an hour and half away by car and hour or two train ride-depending on where you start

 

[Black Label]

10 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I know, that's why I cited him as an example  

Gotcha. The way I read your comment was that you supposed he would eave but hadn't decided. My apologies. 

 

Edit: I reread your comment. Yes, just bad comprehension on my end. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Black Label

[CKNSLS]

On 9/24/2020 at 9:18 PM, jcartwright99 said:

 

Luddite? No, I'd say more a realist.

 

2035 is basically 14 years away but for arguments sake, lets say 15. Let's break this up in 5 year chunks. Now the population for California has been continually increasing and at this point is about 40 million but we'll say 45 million in 2035. 

 

The current state of California is that they do not have enough power in the summer months, hence the rolling blackouts.  This is for a multitude of reasons. Now if you increase the population and also increase demand do you think they will have enough energy resources built in 5 years? Not likely, as California has got to this situation because they have neglected building efficient green power for a while in an effort to shut down polluting plants. How about 10 years?  If demand was static, I think they could probably be fine in 10 years for current demand. However demand is not static. Add another 5 years and you are at 2035. I don't have much faith it will happen. This is just looking at infrastructure and totally ignoring the consumer side of things. 

 

It's a great talking point and goal to have. However, without a well laid out plan on how to get there it's merely hot air coming out of a politicians mouth. 

 

Edit: Looking at the posts above, it looks most of us are on the same page on why this isn't feasible.

As an ex-Southern Californian, I still have contacts and watch the real estate market there.  The only projection I take issue with is the population growth. A 50plus year old house (1,500 sq, feet max)-adjacent to downtown L.A. (10-15 miles) in a REALLY BAD  neighborhood will set you back $400,000.00.  In Orange County, CA-bring a million, that's what you will need for a 35plus year old fixer. So-yes I am questioning if the growth can sustain itself with housing. This is not taking in to account people bailing in areas where the quality of life (SO. CAL) is a real issue because of congestion and traffic.  If all some need to work is an Internet connection-then people will be moving out. I know of two couples who have just sold their homes in S. Cal and are moving to Boise, ID.  

 

So back to topic-if they can fix and project (electrical needs) for the current population-it may go along way with the infrastructure for EV vehicles.

Edited September 27, 2020 by CKNSLS
spelling

[rmc523]

4 hours ago, Deanh said:

its absolutely idiotic...my wife works for the DMV...she was recently handed a 10 % pay cut, 2 days mandated furloughs and no overtime...apparently the cutbacks were to assist in bolstering California's deficit. Newsome himself didn't take the pay cut apparently. I personally think they would have been better off launching a full blown audit to address misappropriation of funds into such questionable pet projects as Bullet trains to no where, Sanctuary cities, pandering to Illegal immigrants, a fleet of unused BMW I3's, etc etc ...list is long. Perhaps those funds could have been better utilized to bolster first responders regarding wildfire issues, addressing an antiquated electrical grid to avoid rolling blackouts during the yearly heat wave, let alone necessary PPEs if theres ever a pandemic...I literally feel like banging my head against a brick wall sometimes... 

 

How dare you think logically!  lol

 

But then they can't "give back" to their donors lol

Edited September 25, 2020 by rmc523

[Kev-Mo]

7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

And then they wonder why people are leaving in droves 

 

Problem is wherever they go, they turn it into California: v2, v3, v4...you get the picture.

 

Note to Californians and New Yorkers:   When you leave your congested traffic, insanely high taxes, sanctuary cities, open borders, safe injection sites, free range homeless 'camping', and ridiculous, invasive strangling rules/regulations for a better place, PLEASE remember why you left when voting in your new state.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Kev-Mo

[Kev-Mo]

5 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

But it is also California, they won't care that there is a huge Coal/Natural gas power plants in Utah, Arizona, or New Mexico producing power for them. 

 

Exactly, and they don't know and/or care just how much pollution is generated by floating all those vehicles/batteries/components across in the vehicles (trans-oceanic cargo ships) that produce more pollution than any other machine on earth.

 

They can't see the big picture past their virtue signaling.

 

[Kev-Mo]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The value of my house has gone up 30-40K because of that..I live about an hour and half away by car and hour or two train ride-depending on where you start

 

 

And your property TAXES too! 

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, Kev-Mo said:

 

And your property TAXES too! 

 

I already too pay too much for that...so its not a big deal

 

[jcartwright99]

On 6/27/2020 at 8:01 PM, 7Mary3 said:

Can you imagine a 4X4 crew cab dually with 1,000 H.P. and 1000 ft. lbs. of torque, No DEF, SCR, EGR, doesn't need a 10 speed transmission, frequent oil changes, or fuel filter changes, has a decent range, can be 'refueled' anywhere including your own home, and could go 500,000 miles with little maintenance or repairs?  Oh yeah, and is cheaper to operate than an F-150.  Guess what- it's possible!    

I can also imagine only having a 200 mile or less range in extreme cold. Then waiting hours to get a full charge. It gets -20 below usually a few times in the winter here and I’m not even that far North. What about those folks in Minnesota and Wisconsin where its even colder?

[7Mary3]

2 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

I can also imagine only having a 200 mile or less range in extreme cold. Then waiting hours to get a full charge. It gets -20 below usually a few times in the winter here and I’m not even that far North. What about those folks in Minnesota and Wisconsin where its even colder?

 

Wait and see where the battery technology will be in 15 years. 

[valve]

Seems the head of the EPA agrees with most of the sentiment expressed here:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/epa-raises-legal-questions-about-california-s-plan-to-ban-new-gas-powered-cars-starting-in-2035-11601321975

[Joe771476]

So just don't BUY any in CA!

[7Mary3]

On 9/30/2020 at 3:05 AM, valve said:

Seems the head of the EPA agrees with most of the sentiment expressed here:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/epa-raises-legal-questions-about-california-s-plan-to-ban-new-gas-powered-cars-starting-in-2035-11601321975

 

I agree with him, but there's a good chance he will be looking for work come January....

[jpd80]

On 9/28/2020 at 12:14 AM, jcartwright99 said:

I can also imagine only having a 200 mile or less range in extreme cold. Then waiting hours to get a full charge. It gets -20 below usually a few times in the winter here and I’m not even that far North. What about those folks in Minnesota and Wisconsin where its even colder?

Ford is developing a range extender generator for it BEV trucks, I can imagine that would come in handy

in situations like that, maybe a cool little 2.0 diesel....

[twintornados]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford is developing a range extender generator for it BEV trucks, I can imagine that would come in handy

in situations like that, maybe a cool little 2.0 diesel....

 

I would imagine it would likely be a 1.5L 3 cylinder if they were going to put an internal combustion engine in it. I think both of those options would be too heavy and too complicated (alternator, cooling etc etc) ...More likely would be an aircooled gas motor that is lighter and less complicated.

 

Better yet, something like this since it would make no sense to produce a "zero emissions" truck only to haul around a "range extender" that spews emissions...

https://www.peoples-gas.com/get-gas/energy/fuelcell

Here is a link to an article that has the entire patent Ford has applied for of the bed mounted drop in "range extender" (pretty cool!!)

https://electrek.co/2020/10/03/ford-electric-pickup-range-extender-design-f150/

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by twintornados

[Trader 10]

5 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

I would imagine it would likely be a 1.5L 3 cylinder if they were going to put an internal combustion engine in it. I think both of those options would be too heavy and too complicated (alternator, cooling etc etc) ...More likely would be an aircooled gas motor that is lighter and less complicated.

 

Better yet, something like this since it would make no sense to produce a "zero emissions" truck only to haul around a "range extender" that spews emissions...

https://www.peoples-gas.com/get-gas/energy/fuelcell

Here is a link to an article that has the entire patent Ford has applied for of the bed mounted drop in "range extender" (pretty cool!!)

https://electrek.co/2020/10/03/ford-electric-pickup-range-extender-design-f150/

From what I’ve read the range extended will charge the battery, not power the truck. I would think its some sort of a smaller engine.

 

 

[twintornados]

25 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

From what I’ve read the range extended will charge the battery, not power the truck. I would think its some sort of a smaller engine.

 

Well, since the truck is a BEV, it can only charge the battery....

[jpd80]

9 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

I would imagine it would likely be a 1.5L 3 cylinder if they were going to put an internal combustion engine in it. I think both of those options would be too heavy and too complicated (alternator, cooling etc etc) ...More likely would be an aircooled gas motor that is lighter and less complicated.

 

Better yet, something like this since it would make no sense to produce a "zero emissions" truck only to haul around a "range extender" that spews emissions...

https://www.peoples-gas.com/get-gas/energy/fuelcell

Here is a link to an article that has the entire patent Ford has applied for of the bed mounted drop in "range extender" (pretty cool!!)

https://electrek.co/2020/10/03/ford-electric-pickup-range-extender-design-f150/

 

 

 

It could just be a clever workaround of California's zero emission regulations

for when operators of commercial vehicles need their BEVs to go places and

not be prisoner to hours and hours of recharging larger batteries than cars.

 

You could pick any of those options, small efficient gasoline, diesel, propane or fuel cell.

It's different to think of the ICE as a separate part time power added, maybe that's the

next step in evolving away from ICE hybrids, a new way of thinking range extension.

Edited October 4, 2020 by jpd80

[Deanh]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 5:02 AM, twintornados said:

 

I would imagine it would likely be a 1.5L 3 cylinder if they were going to put an internal combustion engine in it. I think both of those options would be too heavy and too complicated (alternator, cooling etc etc) ...More likely would be an aircooled gas motor that is lighter and less complicated.

 

Better yet, something like this since it would make no sense to produce a "zero emissions" truck only to haul around a "range extender" that spews emissions...

https://www.peoples-gas.com/get-gas/energy/fuelcell

Here is a link to an article that has the entire patent Ford has applied for of the bed mounted drop in "range extender" (pretty cool!!)

https://electrek.co/2020/10/03/ford-electric-pickup-range-extender-design-f150/

 

 

 

that said...maybe there IS a future in America for the 1.0....tiny and extremely easy size wize to package....

[twintornados]

5 hours ago, Deanh said:

that said...maybe there IS a future in America for the 1.0....tiny and extremely easy size wise to package....

 

You mean this little guy? I honestly think it may be too big for that type of application. When you add required cooling etc, it becomes a bit much for a generator that sits in an enclosed crate and mounted in the box of a short bed pickup.
https://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-motor-company-engines/ford-ecoboost-family/ford-1-0-liter-ecoboost-fox-engine/

 

  

[7Mary3]

The Executive Order states 'Zero Emissions', no chance of an ICE range extender.  In 15 years it will not be necessary anyway.