California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

[Deanh]

18 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

You mean this little guy? I honestly think it may be too big for that type of application. When you add required cooling etc, it becomes a bit much for a generator that sits in an enclosed crate and mounted in the box of a short bed pickup.
https://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-motor-company-engines/ford-ecoboost-family/ford-1-0-liter-ecoboost-fox-engine/

 

  

reason it was mentioned is someone stated it would perhaps utilize the 1.5..I would say in that respect the 1.0 would be easier and perhaps a superior alternative...if I recall correctly there were stories the block was literally taken aboard airplanes in a suitcase...its footprint is the size of a piece of A4 paper....

Edited October 6, 2020 by Deanh

[twintornados]

51 minutes ago, Deanh said:

reason it was mentioned is someone stated it would perhaps utilize the 1.5..I would say in that respect the 1.0 would be easier and perhaps a superior alternative...if I recall correctly there were stories the block was literally taken aboard airplanes in a suitcase...its footprint is the size of a piece of A4 paper....

 

I was one that also stated the 1.5L and I agree the 1.0L would make a more compact fit, but when you start to add accessories it starts to get cumbersome for the kind of fit outlined in the patent filing.

[jpd80]

Whatever Ford decides to do, I'm sure that a lot of people will be interested to see how this works,

it's flipping the traditional roles of ICE vs electric power and perhaps a sign that real change is coming.

[blksn8k2]

Here's a novel idea: Why not give the southern half of CA back to Mexico and in exchange they pay for.....wait for it....the border wall, which would include one around Southern Cal. It'll soon be a giant charcoal briquet anyway. It's called killing two birds with one stone. I'm kidding of course but it's worth a thought...

[ice-capades]

10 minutes ago, blksn8k2 said:

Here's a novel idea: Why not give the southern half of CA back to Mexico and in exchange they pay for.....wait for it....the border wall, which would include one around Southern Cal. It'll soon be a giant charcoal briquet anyway. It's called killing two birds with one stone. I'm kidding of course but it's worth a thought...

 

Your post reminded me of something from years ago. On short notice (Summer 1990) I ended up going to the big, annual dealer introduction meeting in Las Vegas. There was a Ford contest and the dealership that won was caught cheating so my dealership was awarded the trip. Our other managers (GM, Sales, etc.) had all recently won trips from other Ford contests so the Dealer Principal gave the trip to me. especially since I was managing the new vehicle inventory for the dealership and ordering all the inventory. 

 

After going to the Ford Dealer reception that included vehicle displays of the upcoming new models, etc. I went to the lounge at Bally's and ended up sitting at a table next to George Will, not knowing that he would be the keynote speaker at the main event the next morning. During his presentation the next morning, he talked about professional football being nothing more than organized chaos and then talked about California. His statement, observation and/or opinion of California then is just as true today... California is as close as the United States could come to owning its own foreign country!

[OX1]

On 9/27/2020 at 10:14 AM, jcartwright99 said:

I can also imagine only having a 200 mile or less range in extreme cold. Then waiting hours to get a full charge. It gets -20 below usually a few times in the winter here and I’m not even that far North. What about those folks in Minnesota and Wisconsin where its even colder?

 

  Yeah. I was looking at older perf boats recently (2001 29' Baja). Everything for sale seemed to be in FL, CA, or near the Ozarks. 

So I went out to Iowa. 2400 miles in 4 days. Maybe in 15 years a "3/4" ton will be able to do it. 

 

[rperez817]

The government of Quebec announced yesterday that it is going to ban the sale of new ICE powered passenger cars and light trucks in that province starting in 2035, following California's announcement of a similar plan in September.

 

Not sure if Quebec will require like California that all vans and heavy duty trucks to be electric by then, though. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-canada-emissions/quebec-to-ban-sale-of-new-gasoline-powered-cars-from-2035-idUSKBN27W289

Edited November 17, 2020 by rperez817

[FordBuyer]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:59 AM, ice-capades said:

 

Your post reminded me of something from years ago. On short notice (Summer 1990) I ended up going to the big, annual dealer introduction meeting in Las Vegas. There was a Ford contest and the dealership that won was caught cheating so my dealership was awarded the trip. Our other managers (GM, Sales, etc.) had all recently won trips from other Ford contests so the Dealer Principal gave the trip to me. especially since I was managing the new vehicle inventory for the dealership and ordering all the inventory. 

 

After going to the Ford Dealer reception that included vehicle displays of the upcoming new models, etc. I went to the lounge at Bally's and ended up sitting at a table next to George Will, not knowing that he would be the keynote speaker at the main event the next morning. During his presentation the next morning, he talked about professional football being nothing more than organized chaos and then talked about California. His statement, observation and/or opinion of California then is just as true today... California is as close as the United States could come to owning its own foreign country!

If CA was a country, it would be the 5th largest economy in the world. Without the CA economy, the U.S. wouldn't be the economic powerhouse it is. 

[rperez817]

2 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Without the CA economy, the U.S. wouldn't be the economic powerhouse it is. 

 

Definitely. California is also a key driver of innovation in the automotive industry, both through its regulatory frameworks as well as its businesses.

[FordBuyer]

10 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

The government of Quebec announced yesterday that it is going to ban the sale of new ICE powered passenger cars and light trucks in that province starting in 2035, following California's announcement of a similar plan in September.

 

Not sure if Quebec will require like California that all vans and heavy duty trucks to be electric by then, though. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-canada-emissions/quebec-to-ban-sale-of-new-gasoline-powered-cars-from-2035-idUSKBN27W289

Canada is feeling the affects of global warming even more than us. Most of the Northern Canada ice pack has disappeared resulting in sea lane border disputes. And the air quality in Metro Toronto is horrible.

 

[rperez817]

6 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Canada is feeling the affects of global warming even more than us. Most of the Northern Canada ice pack has disappeared resulting in sea lane border disputes. And the air quality in Metro Toronto is horrible.

 

To their credit, many government officials in Canada are taking actions to address this. They have a nationwide goal of becoming carbon neutral by 2050, and it's likely that timeframe will be accelerated in the years to come. With the automotive industry in particular, Quebec and British Columbia are banning the sale of ICE powered vehicles by 2035. Other provinces will probably follow very soon. And Ontario, the center of Canada's automotive industry, is aggressively pursuing BEV R&D and manufacturing, which is one reason that Ford's Oakville Assembly plant will be repurposed for BEV production.

 

The U.S. as a whole (other than California and states that follow California's ZEV mandates) lags behind not only Canada, but all other developed countries and regions when it comes to having a coordinated strategy for BEV development and manufacturing. The Information Technology & Innovation Foundation posted an article about this last week. https://itif.org/publications/2020/11/13/time-serious-us-electric-vehicle-manufacturing-strategy

[7Mary3]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

The government of Quebec announced yesterday that it is going to ban the sale of new ICE powered passenger cars and light trucks in that province starting in 2035, following California's announcement of a similar plan in September.

 

Not sure if Quebec will require like California that all vans and heavy duty trucks to be electric by then, though. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-canada-emissions/quebec-to-ban-sale-of-new-gasoline-powered-cars-from-2035-idUSKBN27W289

 

The California regulations specifically call for 'zero emissions' passenger vehicles starting in 2035.  Commercial trucks and vans beginning in 2045, if feasible.  Key point is 'zero emissions' not necessarily BEV's or a specific ban on ICE's, though currently it appears that BEV's will be the best way to meet the standard.  Incidentally, there are some prototype renewable natural gas large commercial trucks running around that are achieving 'net zero' emissions.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by 7Mary3

[Deanh]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 1:51 PM, rperez817 said:

The government of Quebec announced yesterday that it is going to ban the sale of new ICE powered passenger cars and light trucks in that province starting in 2035, following California's announcement of a similar plan in September.

 

Not sure if Quebec will require like California that all vans and heavy duty trucks to be electric by then, though. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-canada-emissions/quebec-to-ban-sale-of-new-gasoline-powered-cars-from-2035-idUSKBN27W289

new cars arent the problem....just one example , is due to ever escalating pricing to address said emission standards...people are keeping their older cars longer....paradox...

[rperez817]

Massachusetts announced that it will ban the sale of new, gasoline and diesel powered passenger cars and light trucks in 2035, following California's lead.

 

Massachusetts also has decarbonization strategies for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Transportation, Aviation, and Shipping, but the commonwealth hasn't yet officially required new commercial vans and trucks to be ZEV by a certain year like California has with its 2045 mandate.

 

Massachusetts 2050 decarbonization roadmap. https://www.mass.gov/doc/ma-2050-decarbonization-roadmap/download

[atomcat68]

I live in Massachusetts and I had a feeling this was going to drop soon. They are always waiting for California to do something so they can follow right after.

[coupe3w]

41 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

I live in Massachusetts and I had a feeling this was going to drop soon. They are always waiting for California to do something so they can follow right after.

Yup Massachusetts always the follower never the leader. Governor Charlie Baker has to go!

[twintornados]

 

50 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

I live in Massachusetts and I had a feeling this was going to drop soon. They are always waiting for California to do something so they can follow right after.

 

6 minutes ago, coupe3w said:

Yup Massachusetts always the follower never the leader. Governor Charlie Baker has to go!

 

From an internet search...just an FYI, Massachusetts adopted CA emission standards since 2005 beginning with the 2009 model year.
 

Quote

The states that accept California emissions standards are Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington, as well as the District of Columbia.

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by twintornados

[FordBuyer]

On 11/17/2020 at 4:51 PM, rperez817 said:

The government of Quebec announced yesterday that it is going to ban the sale of new ICE powered passenger cars and light trucks in that province starting in 2035, following California's announcement of a similar plan in September.

 

Not sure if Quebec will require like California that all vans and heavy duty trucks to be electric by then, though. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-canada-emissions/quebec-to-ban-sale-of-new-gasoline-powered-cars-from-2035-idUSKBN27W289

Ditto for the state of MA as of 2035.

[atomcat68]

1 minute ago, twintornados said:

 

 

 

From an internet search...
 

 

And when that was launched, MA was the second state after CA to accept that. I had a window sticker on a car (EXP) that stated California/Massachusetts standard, before the others jumped in too.

 

Many states usually join in, but MA is the first to ride the coat tails and they are fast to do it too.

[rperez817]

Update March 22, 2021. California's senators wrote a letter to U.S. President Joe Biden telling him “to follow California’s lead and set a date by which all new cars and passenger trucks sold be zero-emission vehicles" for the entire USA. It's not clear if the senators are pushing California's requirement for ZEV vans, trucks, and other commercial vehicles starting in 2024 (subject of this thread) to also become a nationwide standard. Exclusive: U.S. senators press Biden to set end date for gas-powered car sales | Reuters 

[slemke]

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Update March 22, 2021. California's senators wrote a letter to U.S. President Joe Biden telling him “to follow California’s lead and set a date by which all new cars and passenger trucks sold be zero-emission vehicles" for the entire USA. It's not clear if the senators are pushing California's requirement for ZEV vans, trucks, and other commercial vehicles starting in 2024 (subject of this thread) to also become a nationwide standard. Exclusive: U.S. senators press Biden to set end date for gas-powered car sales | Reuters 

CA feeling isolated that enough other states haven’t jumped on the bandwagon?  Adoption rates are going to vary from state to state.  The focus needs to be on building out the infrastructure and supply chains first.  Electric vehicles are still a niche, and yet politicians insist on outlawing the mainstream.  If the Feds follow through (which I don’t think they will), it will get real interesting. 1970s all over again, but this time it will be China taking market share from everyone.

[silvrsvt]

11 hours ago, slemke said:

CA feeling isolated that enough other states haven’t jumped on the bandwagon?  Adoption rates are going to vary from state to state.  The focus needs to be on building out the infrastructure and supply chains first.  Electric vehicles are still a niche, and yet politicians insist on outlawing the mainstream.  If the Feds follow through (which I don’t think they will), it will get real interesting. 1970s all over again, but this time it will be China taking market share from everyone.

 

There is something like 22 states that use CA Emission standards...so I'd figure they might follow their lead in BEVs. Massachusetts being the first. 

[rperez817]

12 hours ago, slemke said:

CA feeling isolated that enough other states haven’t jumped on the bandwagon?  Adoption rates are going to vary from state to state.  The focus needs to be on building out the infrastructure and supply chains first.  Electric vehicles are still a niche, and yet politicians insist on outlawing the mainstream.  If the Feds follow through (which I don’t think they will), it will get real interesting. 1970s all over again, but this time it will be China taking market share from everyone.

 

Doesn't appear the California senators think their state is isolated. They are concerned that without a consistently strong commitment to promoting BEV throughout the country, the U.S. is less likely to be a global leader in sustainability for the transportation sector.

 

Speaking of China, that country is the biggest competitor for the U.S. for BEV technology and production. Mark Phelan from Detroit Free Press said a couple years ago about BEV "The U.S. auto industry risks becoming an isolated technical backwater while China surges into the global lead in a technology its government has targeted as a key to leadership for the 21st Century." China EV production is booming while U.S. efforts stagnate (freep.com)

[ice-capades]

California as usual continues to be an issue and won't be satisfied until the whole country succumbs to their mandates. 

 

FYI... When I attended the 1990 Ford Dealer "Introduction" meeting in Las Vegas one of the keynote speakers was columnist George Will. During his presentation to Dealers he referred to California as being the closest thing that the U.S. could have to owning its own foreign country. That was 30+ years ago and it seems that little has changed since! 

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Doesn't appear the California senators think their state is isolated. They are concerned that without a consistently strong commitment to promoting BEV throughout the country, the U.S. is less likely to be a global leader in sustainability for the transportation sector.

 

Speaking of China, that country is the biggest competitor for the U.S. for BEV technology and production. Mark Phelan from Detroit Free Press said a couple years ago about BEV "The U.S. auto industry risks becoming an isolated technical backwater while China surges into the global lead in a technology its government has targeted as a key to leadership for the 21st Century." China EV production is booming while U.S. efforts stagnate (freep.com)

The California senators could care less about this nation and just pander to those who stuff their pockets like George Zorros.  If the US is a leader or not does not matter.