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blwnsmoke

California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

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Since this covers Ford, figured I'd post it here.  So 55% of SDs have to be electric by 2035...  

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-shakes-auto-industry-says-180026843.html

 

Under guidelines approved Thursday, at least 40 percent of the tractor trailers sold in California would have to be powered by some form of zero-emissions technology by 2024. Medium-duty trucks, such as the Ford F-250 or Chevrolet Silverado HD, would be required to switch over 55 percent of their sales by 2035; and 75 percent of delivery trucks and vans would have to use zero-emissions powertrain technology by 2035, a point by which fully 100 percent of government fleets and last-mile delivery trucks would have to meet the target.

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55 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

Under guidelines approved Thursday, at least 40 percent of the tractor trailers sold in California would have to be powered by some form of zero-emissions technology by 2024. Medium-duty trucks, such as the Ford F-250 or Chevrolet Silverado HD, would be required to switch over 55 percent of their sales by 2035; and 75 percent of delivery trucks and vans would have to use zero-emissions powertrain technology by 2035, a point by which fully 100 percent of government fleets and last-mile delivery trucks would have to meet the target.

 

So how many are these are actually sold in California?

 

 

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No truck manufacturer is going to build a loss leader for California unless they want subsidized it. 

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Maybe it’s time to call California’s bluff and just withdraw from that market.

 

This is basically a continuation of California's dominance regarding emissions standards which over the years were adopted by a number of other states (CA, CT, DE, MA, MD, ME, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, WA) along with additional states (AZ, DC, ID, NH, NV, OH, VA, WV) being "Cross Border States" allowing vehicles to meet either the California or 50-state emissions standard. Expect there to be negotiations and litigation along the way until there's an agreement or ruling at some point down the road. In any event, it's doubtful that any manufacturer is going to abandon the California market rather than comply with this new proposal that will be enacted in some form. The CA market is just too big which will have an even bigger role should additional states adopt the same standard in the future. Future adventures to follow. 

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Posted (edited)

I guess it is possible, the BEV F150 and Transit will be available by then.

Mach E, mid sized BEV  and maybe PHEVs get bigger batteries and become

extended range EVs....

Edited by jpd80

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If they stick with this, I see dealerships opening just across the NV and AZ state lines and a precipitous drop in new truck registrations in CA.

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9 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

If they stick with this, I see dealerships opening just across the NV and AZ state lines and a precipitous drop in new truck registrations in CA.

Seems like a plan-but then I'm assuming  they have some sort of fuel sticker-they will get you with that.  All good news for Tesla, Nikola etc. etc.😎

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18 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

If they stick with this, I see dealerships opening just across the NV and AZ state lines and a precipitous drop in new truck registrations in CA.

 

4 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Seems like a plan-but then I'm assuming  they have some sort of fuel sticker-they will get you with that.  All good news for Tesla, Nikola etc. etc.😎

 

Big trucking firms will just buy from out of state anyhow so this would not be an issue for them. Locals? That would be a different story and out of state registrations for use in Cali would likely be addressed as well. 

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8 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Big trucking firms will just buy from out of state anyhow so this would not be an issue for them. Locals? That would be a different story and out of state registrations for use in Cali would likely be addressed as well. 

Eh, there's always a way. The tighter you draw the law, the more loopholes appear.

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Better article:

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/26/california-zero-emissions-trucks-mandate/

 

This is coming, California mandate or not.  I believe in 20 years BEV trucks will be so superior to ICE trucks the market will naturally shift.  Infrastructure will take some time but it is being worked on.  The CARB timelines are not that unrealistic, they might have to be adjusted but I don't think by much.  The market will drive this more than legislation will.

 

BTW- Nevada is adopting CARB regulations. 

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59 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

Better article:

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/26/california-zero-emissions-trucks-mandate/

 

This is coming, California mandate or not.  I believe in 20 years BEV trucks will be so superior to ICE trucks the market will naturally shift.  Infrastructure will take some time but it is being worked on.  The CARB timelines are not that unrealistic, they might have to be adjusted but I don't think by much.  The market will drive this more than legislation will.

 

BTW- Nevada is adopting CARB regulations. 

 

Thank you for sharing the Autoblog article 7Mary3 sir. You are correct, the shift to BEV and possibly FCEV commercial trucks & vans is inevitable. Regulations like CARB's can help accelerate the shift.

 

It won't be long before the U.S. federal regulations are harmonized with CARB ZEV mandates for commercial trucks & vans as well as for passenger cars and light trucks.

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1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

Better article:

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/26/california-zero-emissions-trucks-mandate/

 

This is coming, California mandate or not.  I believe in 20 years BEV trucks will be so superior to ICE trucks the market will naturally shift.  Infrastructure will take some time but it is being worked on.  The CARB timelines are not that unrealistic, they might have to be adjusted but I don't think by much.  The market will drive this more than legislation will.

 

BTW- Nevada is adopting CARB regulations. 

 

So why not let it shift itself if they're so good?  Why the need to force them down everyone's throat.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

So why not let it shift itself if they're so good?  Why the need to force them down everyone's throat.


It's the communist... er, California way 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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59 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

So why not let it shift itself if they're so good?  Why the need to force them down everyone's throat.

 

Not trying to argue the point, but I recollect the OEMs saying that they prefer to be able to see regs years in advance in order to make their product plans and plans for investment. I could see where they might prefer (at least) knowing what the playing field will be through 2035 versus dealing with the unknown.

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3 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Not trying to argue the point, but I recollect the OEMs saying that they prefer to be able to see regs years in advance in order to make their product plans and plans for investment. I could see where they might prefer (at least) knowing what the playing field will be through 2035 versus dealing with the unknown.

 

But at the same time there's been resistance to some of California's passenger rules by some manufactures like GM and Toyota...Ford decided they can meet the mandates. 

 

My concern is that California is more or less dictating what the rest of the country can do vs EPA, which is at the federal level. 

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28 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 My concern is that California is more or less dictating what the rest of the country can do vs EPA, which is at the federal level. 

 

Which is now the subject of a lawsuit between California (and 13 other states) and the EPA.  Who has ultimate authority to set fuel economy rules?  Individual States or the Feds?  Most likely this will end up in the Supreme Court.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/climate/lawsuit-fuel-economy-climate.html

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Can you imagine a 4X4 crew cab dually with 1,000 H.P. and 1000 ft. lbs. of torque, No DEF, SCR, EGR, doesn't need a 10 speed transmission, frequent oil changes, or fuel filter changes, has a decent range, can be 'refueled' anywhere including your own home, and could go 500,000 miles with little maintenance or repairs?  Oh yeah, and is cheaper to operate than an F-150.  Guess what- it's possible!    

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15 hours ago, probowler said:

"zero emissions" 🙄

 

Significant point, there very will could be other technologies besides battery electric.

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12 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

Can you imagine a 4X4 crew cab dually with 1,000 H.P. and 1000 ft. lbs. of torque, No DEF, SCR, EGR, doesn't need a 10 speed transmission, frequent oil changes, or fuel filter changes, has a decent range, can be 'refueled' anywhere including your own home, and could go 500,000 miles with little maintenance or repairs?  Oh yeah, and is cheaper to operate than an F-150.  Guess what- it's possible!    

No doubt when you look  at the simplicity it makes a lot of sense.  I'm assuming by 2024, to keep pace with this aggressive implementation plan, Newsom will  have solved the states electrical distribution  issues so they can avoid rolling brown outs and when all the electrics are parked at the end of the day or shift, they will have limitless power.

 

Too bad things can't be done at a measured pace.  But that makes too much sense.  In particular if so much of this will one way or another have "incentives" that taxpayers in other jurisdictions  that have no problem, will be footing the bill subsidizing the program.

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2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Can't California just break off and drop into the Pacific  like so many people wish it would!!??

 

Uh, it's the fifth largest economy in the world and easily the most influential state. And it has devastating fires throughout the year now and needs to do something to survive. Drastic steps are needed during drastic times.

 

Really wild here in central Florida today with Sahara desert sands blowing in here making it hard to breath. No blue sky. Add in out of control virus and we live in uncertain times.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

No doubt when you look  at the simplicity it makes a lot of sense.  I'm assuming by 2024, to keep pace with this aggressive implementation plan, Newsom will  have solved the states electrical distribution  issues so they can avoid rolling brown outs and when all the electrics are parked at the end of the day or shift, they will have limitless power.

 

Too bad things can't be done at a measured pace.  But that makes too much sense.  In particular if so much of this will one way or another have "incentives" that taxpayers in other jurisdictions  that have no problem, will be footing the bill subsidizing the program.

In a perfect world, California would be legislating for all passenger and light commercial  vehicles

to be sold as hybrids that move from passive to aggressive PHEVs to extended range EVs with a

tiny run flat engine....I'm thinking Ranger's 2.0 diesel and a big battery PHEV set up in an F150.

 

.....my point is progressively introduce electrification now to get immediate improvement across

all new vehicles sold and then just keep ramping up the electric side until manufacturers just

go full BEV.

Edited by jpd80

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Can't California just break off and drop into the Pacific  like so many people wish it would!!??

 

I'm sure the Californians don't....including my daughter.

Edited by twintornados

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