fuzzymoomoo Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 54 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Good point. It seems that the leasing deals are not uniform like in the old days, Ford targets certain regions and not others ....but maybe that's also deliberate as Deanh also pointed out there's only a $40 difference to lease an Explorer. It wouldn't surprise me that Ford accentuates a smaller gap to lease a bigger vehicle. It could also explain why Edge might be getting pushed into the background a bit at the moment. My salesman once told me that the Edge has never leased as well as Escape or Explorer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Good point. It seems that the leasing deals are not uniform like in the old days, Ford targets certain regions and not others ....but maybe that's also deliberate as Deanh also pointed out there's only a $40 difference to lease an Explorer. It wouldn't surprise me that Ford accentuates a smaller gap to lease a bigger vehicle. It could also explain why Edge might be getting pushed into the background a bit at the moment. Moral of this story is if you want to drive an Escape in FL or CA, buy it outright if rebates are decent or they offer 0% loans. I set out to lease a new Escape, but the "deals" are beyond outrageous. So I bought one and the 0% loan is a good deal, even better than taking the $3500 rebate offered. Maybe Floridians prefer to buy their vehicles as they last forever in this climate. But Toyota and Honda prove that good lease deals move metal off the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Good point. It seems that the leasing deals are not uniform like in the old days, Ford targets certain regions and not others ....but maybe that's also deliberate as Deanh also pointed out there's only a $40 difference to lease an Explorer. I thought Ford shifted incentive money to local dealer associations so they could target the incentives to fit their local markets. I know that happened with rebates on purchases so I assume that applies to lease subsidies as well. In which case it’s not Ford but the local dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 On 7/2/2020 at 1:02 PM, fuzzymoomoo said: Hmm, I wonder why they stopped separating PI sales from regular Explorer Ford last broke out Explorer vs. Explorer Police Interceptor Utility in their Q4 2019 sales report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 30 minutes ago, robertlane said: Ford last broke out Explorer vs. Explorer Police Interceptor Utility in their Q4 2019 sales report. They don't anymore for obvious reasons Robert, those statistics were being used against them on social media. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: Moral of this story is if you want to drive an Escape in FL or CA, buy it outright if rebates are decent or they offer 0% loans. I set out to lease a new Escape, but the "deals" are beyond outrageous. So I bought one and the 0% loan is a good deal, even better than taking the $3500 rebate offered. Maybe Floridians prefer to buy their vehicles as they last forever in this climate. But Toyota and Honda prove that good lease deals move metal off the lot. I think the truth lies somewhere in between, Ford trapped between wanting better returns and seeing Toyota's commitment to RAV4 ( two plants) selling in high numbers pushed along by aggressive financing. Does Ford match or rely on return customer loyalty overriding annoyance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 On 7/3/2020 at 1:09 PM, RadicalX said: Escape needs this front end (china version): The current one is ugly Or Ford could offer both... We are just talking about different front bumper and grille... If F-150 has 13 grilles, Escape can survive with 2. In fact, Ford Taiwan does just that - you can get both flavors of Kuga: The more upscale looking one on Titanium and the regular one on the ST-Line. https://www.ford.com.tw/suvs/kuga/the-all-new-kuga/?intcmp=bb-ftw-hp-ftw-vhp-return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Or Ford could offer both... We are just talking about different front bumper and grille... If F-150 has 13 grilles, Escape can survive with 2. In fact, Ford Taiwan does just that - you can get both flavors of Kuga: The more upscale looking one on Titanium and the regular one on the ST-Line. I like where your head is at but they’re trying to simplify production, not complicate it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Have you ever noticed that build complexity is only a problem when Ford isn't making money from diversity... Fusion"s 33,000 possible build combinations weren't a problem when it was selling at near 300k per year. The Escape needs all the help it can get, the Kuga front looks better to me. Edited July 5, 2020 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) On 7/2/2020 at 11:31 AM, FordBuyer said: You are probably right as the negative biased Ford reviewers out there love to pile it on. But a little extra insulation wouldn't hurt and cost little to do. It seems like the engine has plenty of power at 181 hp, but wouldn't take much to make it sound like 4 cylinder. Continual improvement is a good thing to do. Listen to your critics and improve where you can. So-yes you are saying they are correct on the NVH. I'm going to say it now-the new Escape is a horrible vehicle....just horrible. Ford really messed up on this one. It's like the "Oval Taurus" of it's day...only arguably worse. Quote Edited July 5, 2020 by CKNSLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 11 hours ago, CKNSLS said: So-yes you are saying they are correct on the NVH. I'm going to say it now-the new Escape is a horrible vehicle....just horrible. Ford really messed up on this one. It's like the "Oval Taurus" of it's day...only arguably worse. You aren't even close with that description. The new Escape is roomier, more fuel efficient, lighter, offers more safety features, better handling, more rigid, and arguably better looking than the previous generation Escape. Add in the hybrid and plugin and no contest. I cross shopped the RAV hybrid and the Escape hybrid is a better buy. Add in the RAV faulty fuel tank and rear suspension problems and abnormally noisy engine, and again no contest. Also no recalls or other niggling problems so far which is a big deal. Could the new Escape be better? Sure. But is it horrible! NO way no matter how biased you are. Minimal fixes like appearance package, new trim line, add new standard features to SEL, would easily make it more competitive. And some decent lease deals in more regions than Metro Detroit would move more at the retail level. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: I cross shopped the RAV hybrid and the Escape hybrid is a better buy. Car and Driver confirmed Escape SE Sport Hybrid is a better value, too. The Escape Hybrid actually has less engine noise than RAV4 Hybrid, just the opposite of Escape 1.5T 3-cylinder versus RAV4 2.5L 4-cylinder non-hybrid. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a29878756/2020-ford-escape-hybrid-vs-2019-toyota-rav4-hybrid/ " So, which one of these two well-established compact crossovers is the better hybrid? We're pretty convinced both are the best versions in their respective lineups. The RAV4 hybrid appears like the more popular choice due to crossover shoppers' appetite for traditional SUV characteristics such as all-wheel drive, bold styling, and a raised driving position. The Toyota checks all these boxes and brings along the company's reputation for reliability, which help make the RAV4 one of the best-selling models in America. However, the hybrid's relatively loud engine and jittery ride combined with its generally more expensive price tag make it a close second in this comparison. The outgoing Ford Escape sold in droves even though it was older than most rivals, and the latest version is much improved. The 2020 Escape hybrid is a perfect portal to transition from small, fuel-efficient cars to compact crossovers. Sure, its interior won't impress anyone, and it's not as efficient on the highway as the RAV4 hybrid, but the Ford has a cozier cabin and more refined driving manners. It's also a considerably better value proposition. After all, why buy a hybrid if you're not attempting to save the environment and some money?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Car and Driver confirmed Escape SE Sport Hybrid is a better value, too. The Escape Hybrid actually has less engine noise than RAV4 Hybrid, just the opposite of Escape 1.5T 3-cylinder versus RAV4 2.5L 4-cylinder non-hybrid. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a29878756/2020-ford-escape-hybrid-vs-2019-toyota-rav4-hybrid/ Your confirmation bias is showing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Your confirmation bias is showing again. Did you read the Car and Driver article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Car and Driver confirmed Escape SE Sport Hybrid is a better value, too. The Escape Hybrid actually has less engine noise than RAV4 Hybrid, just the opposite of Escape 1.5T 3-cylinder versus RAV4 2.5L 4-cylinder non-hybrid. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a29878756/2020-ford-escape-hybrid-vs-2019-toyota-rav4-hybrid/ After 1,000 miles, we are averaging 49mpg in ours. Over half the miles were in electric mode only. And it's a relatively quick car when you put your foot into it as the electric motor still helps out. So we are getting much better than 44mpg EPA average. Way over 600 miles on tank of gas. Wow, that is horrible!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: So we are getting much better than 44mpg EPA average. Way over 600 miles on tank of gas. Wow, that is horrible!! Haha, in all seriousness that points to efficient driving techniques on your part. Do you use "pulse and glide"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving#Pulse_and_glide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Haha, in all seriousness that points to efficient driving techniques on your part. Do you use "pulse and glide"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving#Pulse_and_glide Don't know what that is? We don't hyper mile....we both accelerate up to speed limit or a little over and pull off accelerator which puts car into electric and maintain speed. It will usually stay in electric up to a mile or more. In residential areas, it's electric only. Another nice feature is that with navigation option the speed limit of road you are on will show up on instrument panel next to speedometer. Very helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: Don't know what that is? We don't hyper mile....we both accelerate up to speed limit or a little over and pull off accelerator which puts car into electric and maintain speed. Thank you FordBuyer sir, your technique is pretty much the "pulse and glide" concept. The idea is to accelerate rapidly (but not full throttle) and then let off the accelerator to coast, repeating this process to maintain speed. IMO the technique is easier to do on arterial streets than on long stretches of rural interstate highway. The improved fuel economy is a result of getting the ICE engine in a more efficient region of the brake-specific fuel consumption (BSFC) map when accelerating rapidly, combined with shutting off the ICE when coasting. I got 55 mpg in a Ford Fusion Hybrid rental car by using "pulse and glide". However, in my Model S, "pulse and glide" doesn't make much of a difference due to more aggressive regen when letting off the accelerator and because the all-electric powertrain is already optimized for efficiency. Edited July 5, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, bzcat said: Or Ford could offer both... We are just talking about different front bumper and grille... If F-150 has 13 grilles, Escape can survive with 2. In fact, Ford Taiwan does just that - you can get both flavors of Kuga: The more upscale looking one on Titanium and the regular one on the ST-Line. https://www.ford.com.tw/suvs/kuga/the-all-new-kuga/?intcmp=bb-ftw-hp-ftw-vhp-return I personally don't think that bigger grille looks any better - however, I do agree that the red one on the left with the different/more detailed fog light area looks better than our Escape. The one little fog light (or black plastic fill panel on lower trims) looks cheap/unfinished, or at best, less sophisticated. Hmm, I just realized that the grilles are different as well - the Kuga's goes up higher all the way to that crease that ours has. Edited July 5, 2020 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 19 hours ago, jpd80 said: They don't anymore for obvious reasons Robert, those statistics were being used against them on social media. I think they were selling 30,000 Explorer Police units (does this figure include gov't Explorers too?) per quarter in 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: I personally don't think that bigger grille looks any better - however, I do agree that the red one on the left with the different/more detailed fog light area looks better than our Escape. The one little fog light (or black plastic fill panel on lower trims) looks cheap/unfinished, or at best, less sophisticated. Hmm, I just realized that the grilles are different as well - the Kuga's goes up higher all the way to that crease that ours has. I like the Taiwanese approach. The US version does look pretty dull compared to the others. Chinese front end on titanium and st line front end on all others. Replace interiors with the Chinese version too. On top of all the other improvements Fordbuyer mentioned earlier, you would have improved the two areas where the escape was weakest, interior and it’s front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, T-dubz said: I like the Taiwanese approach. The US version does look pretty dull compared to the others. Chinese front end on titanium and st line front end on all others. Replace interiors with the Chinese version too. On top of all the other improvements Fordbuyer mentioned earlier, you would have improved the two areas where the escape was weakest, interior and it’s front. On the Titanium, pleated seat cushions like on the 2021 F-150 Limited would be a nice touch. Would look good on the Limited Explorer also. Seems to do wonders on the upper Telluride trim level. I was a passenger in a lower trim level Pallisade and wasn't blown away by the interior at all. And an upgraded front grille on the Titanium is a good idea that I concur with. Whe you get close to $40,000, you have to up your game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 On 7/3/2020 at 12:06 AM, MKX1960 said: Ranger is doing pretty well and getting close to 2nd place. I'm really surprised with Explorer with all the bad press it's got. I like the ST, but a little afraid to buy it. The Ranger is in 2nd place for 2020. YTD 2020 sales Ranger = 45,988 Colorado = 41,273. Of course if you add the Colorado and Canyon then GM goes ahead by about 5,000 units, but the Ranger is doing well for the current economic situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, rmc523 said: I personally don't think that bigger grille looks any better - however, I do agree that the red one on the left with the different/more detailed fog light area looks better than our Escape. The one little fog light (or black plastic fill panel on lower trims) looks cheap/unfinished, or at best, less sophisticated. Hmm, I just realized that the grilles are different as well - the Kuga's goes up higher all the way to that crease that ours has. Yes, the Taiwanese Kuga ST-Line front end is the same (or nearly identical) to the European ST-Line. It's not the same as the US version. Basically, Ford Taiwan by virtue of being the last production site to start Kuga, had its choice of front ends and I think they made the best decision and picked the best from the list of possible options: 1. US version (looks a bit cheap in my opinion) 2. EU regular version (similar to US version but with better details) 3. Chinese version (looks much more upscale) 4. EU ST-Line version (looks more sporty than both US and EU regular versions) BTW, it's not just the front end. Look at the side plastic trim and rear bumper too. The US version is just huge expanse of drab black plastic molding. The Taiwanese Titanium version has chrome accents that breaks up the black and makes it look more upscale. And of course ST-Line with body colored side molding and rear bumper has a dramatic different look than the US or EU regular version. If I'm Ford US and looking at option to fix Escape appearance, I think I will launch the ST-Line immediately as an alternative to Titanium, and make the body color trim and rear bumper as an appearance package on SE Sport and SEL. Then I would add the Taiwanese Titanium side trim to the SEL and Titanium trim level so make it look more upscale. Edited July 6, 2020 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 36 minutes ago, bzcat said: Yes, the Taiwanese Kuga ST-Line front end is the same (or nearly identical) to the European ST-Line. It's not the same as the US version. Basically, Ford Taiwan by virtue of being the last production site to start Kuga, had its choice of front ends and I think they made the best decision and picked the best from the list of possible options: 1. US version (looks a bit cheap in my opinion) 2. EU regular version (similar to US version but with better details) 3. Chinese version (looks much more upscale) 4. EU ST-Line version (looks more sporty than both US and EU regular versions) BTW, it's not just the front end. Look at the side plastic trim and rear bumper too. The US version is just huge expanse of drab black plastic molding. The Taiwanese Titanium version has chrome accents that breaks up the black and makes it look more upscale. And of course ST-Line with body colored side molding and rear bumper has a dramatic different look than the US or EU regular version. If I'm Ford US and looking at option to fix Escape appearance, I think I will launch the ST-Line immediately as an alternative to Titanium, and make the body color trim and rear bumper as an appearance package on SE Sport and SEL. Then I would add the Taiwanese Titanium side trim to the SEL and Titanium trim level so make it look more upscale. That rear bumper is no different than ours. They do have a small chrome piece on the lower doors, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.