F250 7.3L No trailer tow !

[theoldwizard]

I was spec'ing out an F250 for my son-in-law when I found that the 2 Trailer Tow packages (535 and 53Q) require the 6.7L diesel !

 

That certainly does not "show off" the new gasser's capability !

[jpd80]

For about the last six months, threads here on the new Super Duty have been discussing that.

 

In F250 and F350, the 7.3's max towing is limited to about 16,000 lbs but to tow heavier loads

like 25,000 lbs, you need to check 6.7 Powerstroke.

Edited July 4, 2020 by jpd80

[fordmantpw]

Just get the F350.  Then the trailer tow packages aren't available because it comes standard. The heavy tow package comes with upgraded axles in the F250 to bring it more in line with the F350's capabilities.

[jpd80]

18 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

Just get the F350.  Then the trailer tow packages aren't available because it comes standard. The heavy tow package comes with upgraded axles in the F250 to bring it more in line with the F350's capabilities.

Even with gooseneck and DRW, the 7.3 maxes out at around 21,000 lbs.

The 6.7 Powerstroke by comparison is max rated at around 35,000 lbs.

Edited July 4, 2020 by jpd80

[fordmantpw]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Even with gooseneck and DRW, the 7.3 maxes out at around 21,000 lbs.

The 6.7 Powerstroke by comparison is max rated at around 35,000 lbs.

 

That's to be expected, right?  I mean, the PowerStroke does have 120% more torque than the gasser.  Considering the 7.3 tows 60% of the weight while having only 45% of the torque says a lot about the gasser.

[Bob Rosadini]

But I also think a lot of this stuff is all part of the Ford game to boost ATP.  Like air brakes on an F-750.  No air until next year.  Frames, Axles, wheel/tires, all the same.  IMO just milking the 6.7 premium until the very end.  How much would it take to hang that compressor on the 7.3?

 

Now Fordman makes a good point- perhaps that is their logic.

 

Then again, F-600 goes into production in August.  And guess what..NO Power Stroke? so much for my ATP theory.  Perhaps at 22,000 GVW it is a radiator size issue?

 

??? Would be nice to hear some good reasons.

[fordmantpw]

Wait, the F-600 isn't available with the PowerStroke?  That seems odd.

[jpd80]

43 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

Wait, the F-600 isn't available with the PowerStroke?  That seems odd.

Yep, 7.3 only

Looks like it's been  specifically designed to migrate F650 gasoline sales.....

 

57 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

That's to be expected, right?  I mean, the PowerStroke does have 120% more torque than the gasser.  Considering the 7.3 tows 60% of the weight while having only 45% of the torque says a lot about the gasser.

I agree but the OP seemed to be expecting the 7.3 to tow as much as the 6.7

Edited July 4, 2020 by jpd80

[akirby]

That’s misleading.  Tow package is standard on all super duties.  Only the heavy duty tow packages are unavailable.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Yep, 7.3 only

Looks like it's been  specifically designed to migrate F650 gasoline sales.....

 

I agree but the OP seemed to be expecting the 7.3 to tow as much as the 6.7

 

Seems odd.  Wasn't their big selling point on the 650s that you could get it with a gas engine too?

[laj.tuxmek]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Seems odd.  Wasn't their big selling point on the 650s that you could get it with a gas engine too?

The plan was always to offer it with the 7.3L and the 6.7L. I know this because at work we talked about the different aftertreatment system on the F-600 compared to the rest of the chassis cab lineup. Also this: https://www.worktruckonline.com/331375/ford-all-new-f-600-rounds-out-super-duty-lineup. I wonder if it got pushed to the 2021MY.

 

Also, some customers will find the F-600 more attractive than the F-650 due to its smaller size and the availability of 4x4. If you haven't driven an F-650/750, they are extremely unwieldy compared to an F-550/600.

Edited July 4, 2020 by laj.tuxmek

[jpd80]

The majority of F650 sales are to gasoline buyers, the Medium Dutys exist only because of that and not diesel sales.

So if Ford encourages the majority of those gasoline  customers over to F600, the MDs will be gone

[laj.tuxmek]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The majority of F650 sales are to gasoline buyers, the Medium Dutys exist only because of that and not diesel sales.

So if Ford encourages the majority of those gasoline  customers over to F600, the MDs will be gone

Ford is already working on a 2023MY refresh for the F-650/750, so they don't seem to be going anywhere soon.

[jpd80]

18 minutes ago, laj.tuxmek said:

Ford is already working on a 2023MY refresh for the F-650/750, so they don't seem to be going anywhere soon.

Not unless sales collapse, this is all up to buyers telling Ford what they want.

The key word you said is " refresh" which is far less costly than a brand new truck.

In a good month, about 2300 F650/F750 are sold, just short of 2,000 are F650,

a lot was hanging on this year telling Ford what buyers actually wanted.

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The majority of F650 sales are to gasoline buyers, the Medium Dutys exist only because of that and not diesel sales.

So if Ford encourages the majority of those gasoline  customers over to F600, the MDs will be gone

Well I hope you  are wrong.   As I've said before, The F-600 gasser is a slam dunk for the U-Hauls of the world.  Cheaper- and for sure as Laj
'mek suggests, far more user friendly than a 650.  But if Ford really wants to  be a major player in commercial trucks they need  class 7. And broken record that I am, when the 7.3 is available with air brakes, at a huge savings over diesel in terms of first and normal maintenance cost there will be plenty of buyers that need the GVW and reasonable power-assuming they are not running high miles every day at max GVW/GCW.  Like building contractors who need that size truck that may hang around all day at a  job site either because it carries mounted equipment -like a hydraulic telescopic crane or a vactor or even a 6-8 yd. dump.

Friday I stopped in at local dealership  that in last six mos has hired an experienced commercial sales guy.  Guys biggest problem is he has all kinds of trucks that are sold and OAP is I guess having to dig out of the backlog.  In any case I mentioned how I thought the 7.3 would be a big hit with building contractors-he laughs and says he had a loaded 750 Power Stroke on Lot, 6-8 yd body, Air brakes, Alcoa wheels, all the bells and whistles.

Guy drives by, sees it and stops in.  High end home builder-as in 7 figures.  Mind you this is a drive by.  so my pal has him drive the 7.3 650 he had on lot.  Just chassis, no frills.  Guy drives the 750 and pays 15 g over the fitted out cost of the 650.  Was it the 33,000 gvw or the diesel or the image? Who knows,  but you have to cover all the bases. 

 

And by the way, you should see what the heating oil dealers are buying around here-mostly 2800 gal tanks, most popular size, are loaded Petes/KW's or F"liners.  Few plain janes.

[7Mary3]

5 hours ago, laj.tuxmek said:

Ford is already working on a 2023MY refresh for the F-650/750, so they don't seem to be going anywhere soon.

 

Wonder if the 650 and 750 will get the current Super Duty aluminum cab.

 

News to me the F-600 will be gas only.  

[theoldwizard]

21 hours ago, akirby said:

That’s misleading.  Tow package is standard on all super duties.  Only the heavy duty tow packages are unavailable.

I'm not sure what you mean by that statement.

 

The on line "build your own" did not mention (or I could not find) the stand alone Trailer Brake Controller (52B).  Power-folding, PowerTelescoping, Trailer Tow Mirrors are N/A on XL, but optional on XLT (54F). Same with Trailer TPMS (65A) and Trailer Camera (653).

[fordmantpw]

29 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that statement.

 

The on line "build your own" did not mention (or I could not find) the stand alone Trailer Brake Controller (52B).  Power-folding, PowerTelescoping, Trailer Tow Mirrors are N/A on XL, but optional on XLT (54F). Same with Trailer TPMS (65A) and Trailer Camera (653).

XL comes with manual fold and telescoping mirrors. Power ones are N/A in XL. 
 

Not sure what’s up with trailer brake controller but I thought it was standard. That would be why it’s not mentioned as an option. 
 

TPMS and trailer camera I don’t think are available in XL either.

 

Sounds like you’re more concerned with availability of options on trim level and not gas vs. diesel. 

[akirby]

Tow mirrors are standard (manual on XL).  TBC is standard on XLT and higher trims.  Therefore the title is incorrect but I can’t edit it on my iPad.

[theoldwizard]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:18 AM, fordmantpw said:

Sounds like you’re more concerned with availability of options on trim level and not gas vs. diesel. 

No, I just want a 7.3L with either the 535 and 53Q trailer tow package.

 

The last exercise was to see if I could build it piece by piece.

[akirby]

22 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

No, I just want a 7.3L with either the 535 and 53Q trailer tow package.

 

The last exercise was to see if I could build it piece by piece.

Not a towing expert but it seems like Ford is saying the standard tow package is more than sufficient to handle whatever the 7.3 is capable of towing safely and if you want to exceed that with the heavy duty towing packages you need the diesel anyway.

Edited July 6, 2020 by akirby

[fordmantpw]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Not a towing expert but it seems like Ford is saying the standard tow package is more than sufficient to handle whatever the 7.3 is capable of towing safely and if you want to exceed that with the heavy duty towing packages you need the diesel anyway.

 

^^^^ This right here.

[SteelyD]

On 7/4/2020 at 6:52 AM, theoldwizard said:

I was spec'ing out an F250 for my son-in-law when I found that the 2 Trailer Tow packages (535 and 53Q) require the 6.7L diesel !

 

That certainly does not "show off" the new gasser's capability !

The outgoing 6.8 had trailer tow.

[Flying68]

On 7/4/2020 at 5:52 AM, theoldwizard said:

I was spec'ing out an F250 for my son-in-law when I found that the 2 Trailer Tow packages (535 and 53Q) require the 6.7L diesel !

 

That certainly does not "show off" the new gasser's capability !

According to the order guide here are the available towing packages:

F-250 TRAILER TOW PACKAGE – HIGH CAPACITY (535)
Availability:
● Optional on XL, XLT, and Lariat F-250 
Not available with:
● 10,000 GVWR/9,900 GVWR Pkg. (68D)
● Pickup Box Delete (66D)
Requires:
● 6.7L Power Stroke® Diesel engine (99T)
● Trailer Brake Controller (TBC) (52B) – XL SRW
Includes:
● Increase GCW on diesel engine from 23,500 lbs. to 30,000 lbs.
● Upgraded axle

 

★F-250 TRAILER TOW HIGH CAPACITY W/ ULTIMATE TRAILER TOW CAMERA SYSTEM PACKAGE AND PRO TRAILER BACKUP ASSIST (53Q)
Availability:
● Optional on F-250
Not available with:
● Pickup Box Delete (66D)
Requires:
● 6.7L Power Stroke® Diesel engine (99T)
● Power Equipment Group (90L) – XL only
● STX Appearance Package (17S) – XL only
● SYNC® 3 (913) – XL only
● Trailer Brake Controller (52B) – XL only
Includes:
● F-250 Trailer Tow Package – High Capacity (535)
— Upgraded Axe
— Increase GCW on diesel engine from 23,500 lbs. to 30,000 lbs.
★Pro Trailer Backup Assist – std on King Ranch®, Platinum and Limited
● Ultimate Trailer Tow Camera System (874) – std on King Ranch®, Platinum and Limited
— Rear View Camera
— 360 Degree Camera System
— Rear CHMSL Camera
— Trailer Reverse Guidance
— LED Center High-Mounted Stop Lamp

 

★ULTIMATE TRAILER TOW CAMERA SYSTEM W/ PRO TRAILER BACKUP ASSIST PACKAGE (53R)
Availability:
● Optional on XL, XLT, and Lariat
● Standard on King Ranch®, Platinum, and Limited
Not available with:
● Pickup Box Delete (66D)
Requires:
● Power Equipment Group (90L) – XL only
● STX Appearance Package (17S) – XL only
● SYNC® 3 (913) – XL only
● Trailer Brake Controller (52B) – XL only
Includes:
★ Pro Trailer Backup Assist
● Ultimate Trailer Tow Camera System (874)
— Rear View Camera
— 360 Degree Camera System
— Rear CHMSL Camera
— Trailer Reverse Guidance
— LED Center High-Mounted Stop Lamp

 

You will note that the only thing 535 gets you is an increased GCWR to 30,000 lbs and an upgraded axle.  53Q is just 53R combined with 535.  According to the towing guide the standard F-250's GCWR w/7.3 is 21,800 with a 3.55 ratio and 26,000 with a 4.30 ratio.  The 6.7L gets 23,500 lbs with a 3.31 ratio and the 30,000 with the 3.55 ratio and requires 535 or 53Q.  So in essence, you are asking to pay more for something Ford isn't willing to certify.  Ford has determined that the 7.3L is not sufficient for a 30,000 lb GCWR, thus they don't offer it, but that is only a 4,000 lb difference from a 7.3L with a 4.30 rear end ratio.