Retained Customers When Ford Cars Are Gone.

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Well said as rperez817 mentioned. Ford rarely introduces something new to the market and normally plays catch-up to the competition which then takes years to earn a sizeable share of sales. Ford may have been ahead of the curve with the shift away from sedans but Dealers are now left with the dated EcoSport which is very difficult for Dealers to sell. Ford may be ending Fusion production in the next week or so but there's enough inventory in stock to last almost 2 years. CEO Fields was a disaster for Ford and cut everything to the bone regarding product development thinking that he could boost the stock price. We all saw how that played out.    

 

 

If Ford was as dedicated to product development with other models as it is with the F-150, Mustang and the new Bronco and Bronco Sport, Ford would be unstoppable. Yes, it takes money to do it which is exactly why Alan Mulally convinced Ford to drop Mercury and sell off Austin Martin, Volvo, Jaguar, etc. and concentrate on its core brands Ford and Lincoln, even though he wanted to kill off Lincoln too. Alan Mulally showed them all what needed to be done but when he left, Fields and those in Dearborn resorted to their old school practices. 

 

We'll have to wait to see the results but it certainly appears that they have a hit on their hands with the new Bronco and the Bronco Sport to a lesser degree. Then it's a matter of seeing what follows.  

 

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

They’re predicting F-series type profits. I was told that by someone in plant management last week. 

 

I watched an Autoline interview with Hau Thai Tang the other day....it was about F-series and was just before the Bronco debut, so they couldn't get much into Bronco, but they were discussing overall fitness improvements and things since Hackett came aboard.  He was talking about the shift from Focus/C-Max to Ranger/Bronco, and they're anticipating at least a $1B improvement at that plant alone with that switch.  Which is insane.

[fuzzymoomoo]

11 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

I watched an Autoline interview with Hau Thai Tang the other day....it was about F-series and was just before the Bronco debut, so they couldn't get much into Bronco, but they were discussing overall fitness improvements and things since Hackett came aboard.  He was talking about the shift from Focus/C-Max to Ranger/Bronco, and they're anticipating at least a $1B improvement at that plant alone with that switch.  Which is insane.

The way I understand it is as it stands right now just building only the Ranger is more profitable than Focus/C-Max, once you take out the money currently being spent on Bronco tooling of course. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I heard some numbers too but I don't want to get into it. Let's just say I've never been in a better situation in the 7 years I've worked for this company. 

FYI, Ranger is Ford’s second or third most profitable vehicle, SUVs like Bronco and Everest are gravy when most of the project is amortised by Ranger.

 

So glad that ford came to it’s senses and got the right products at MAP. Mulally’s visions of small cars as Ford’s future was flawed.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, Rodrigo said:

 

 

 

hi JPD; there will be no Amarok T6 in South America, regards!

(sorry is on a page in Spanish)

 

https://autoblog.com.ar/2020/06/10/proyecto-cyclone-ford-y-vw-anunciaron-que-sudafrica-sera-el-unico-pais-que-fabricara-la-nueva-amarok-ii/

 

https://autoblog.com.ar/2020/04/05/adios-al-proyecto-cyclone-en-argentina/

Thanks Rodrigo,

I suspect that South Africa will build Amarok because it already supplies Europe with Ranger.

 Maybe we pray for luck that South America can get some production, yes?

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

So glad that ford came to it’s senses and got the right products at MAP. Mulally’s visions of small cars as Ford’s future was flawed.

At the moment it was correct with gas prices. 
 

just look at what happened four years ago in the US-full on expectations of the economy going to pieces after the elections. It took a global pandemic to derail it finally four years later. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

FYI, Ranger is Ford’s second or third most profitable vehicle, SUVs like Bronco and Everest are gravy when most of the project is amortised by Ranger.

 

So glad that ford came to it’s senses and got the right products at MAP. Mulally’s visions of small cars as Ford’s future was flawed.

It's going to be the opposite here since there's no doubt we will build way more Broncos than Rangers. 

[Oac98]

Say what you want about Mulally but I believe he did an excellent job in that time period to begin Ford’s turnaround plan at that time.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Oacjay98

[Oac98]

I believe that the Bronco will galvanize some sales from Edge Explorer and Escape forsure. I’m probably just stating the obvious anyways. If I had a choice between a Bronco Sport and an Escape I would take the Bronco Sport. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Say what you want about Mulally but I believe he did an excellent job in that time period to begin Ford’s turnaround plan at that time.

Yes but beyond surviving, he refused to grow the business fast enough and take full advantage of a surging economy.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I believe that the Bronco will galvanize some sales from Edge Explorer and Escape forsure. I’m probably just stating the obvious anyways. If I had a choice between a Bronco Sport and an Escape I would take the Bronco Sport. 

Maybe that's why discussion of Bronco was banned on Mulally's watch, unnecessary duplication?

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's going to be the opposite here since there's no doubt we will build way more Broncos than Rangers. 

Just imagine if Everest was given the nod too........(I know it's not).

[Oac98]

20 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Maybe that's why discussion of Bronco was banned on Mulally's watch, unnecessary duplication?

That’s certainly a good theory. This Bronco  hysteria is great for FOMOCO in these covid times. In the Mulally days having small cars was more feasible according to the market at that time.

[jpd80]

That and hitching their wagon to a $5.9 billion low interest DOE loan that stipulated that funding had to be used

on specific approvedf fuelefficiency projects. Focus was one of thirteen plants that benefited from funding.

Without that Funding, I doubt that Focus would have continued at Wayne/MAP, maybe Mexico with Fiesta.

Edited July 21, 2020 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I believe that the Bronco will galvanize some sales from Edge Explorer and Escape forsure. I’m probably just stating the obvious anyways. If I had a choice between a Bronco Sport and an Escape I would take the Bronco Sport. 

Im not so sure-there is a decent size difference between the two-of around 8 inches. 

[jpd80]

9 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Im not so sure-there is a decent size difference between the two-of around 8 inches. 

True but it's like Ford shrunk the exterior dimensions without hurting internal dimensions too much.

I think its a clever space efficient package, the canopy effect could change opinions but that rear

compartment does look very short...

Edited July 21, 2020 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

15 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I believe that the Bronco will galvanize some sales from Edge Explorer and Escape forsure. I’m probably just stating the obvious anyways. If I had a choice between a Bronco Sport and an Escape I would take the Bronco Sport. 

 

You do know that Ford is not competing against itself.....it built two different crossovers that appeal to two different groups of buyers. I hope the strategy works out. It's like comparing a ranch home against a two story bungalow. Different strokes for different folks. I like both and very happy with my Escape. Would buy it again. And understand why someone would buy the Sport instead.

[Oac98]

3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

You do know that Ford is not competing against itself.....it built two different crossovers that appeal to two different groups of buyers. I hope the strategy works out. It's like comparing a ranch home against a two story bungalow. Different strokes for different folks. I like both and very happy with my Escape. Would buy it again. And understand why someone would buy the Sport instead.

That’s true different products will appeal to different people. We will see how it plays out. Glad you’re enjoying your Escape.

[jpd80]

12 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

That’s true different products will appeal to different people. We will see how it plays out. Glad you’re enjoying your Escape.

I do see your POV as well and I do believe that there is some buyer overlap with Escape and Bronco Sport

but I think the biggest conquests will still come from outside Ford, this is all about Ford gaining sales traction.

[Trailhiker]

13 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

That’s true different products will appeal to different people. We will see how it plays out.

 

I think Ford designed the Escape to capture people coming out of the car market. I guess they thought those people would like something styled like a car.

I don't think the style carries over well, and may be one of the reasons the new Escape did not sell well even before China started playing around with bats.

If people wanted sedan styling, they would have bought sedans.

 

The Bronco Sport looks like an SUV, It is wide enough as it shares the Escape platform, and offers off-road abilty. I think it will compete with a wide variety of models from the compettion.

[silvrsvt]

17 hours ago, jpd80 said:

True but it's like Ford shrunk the exterior dimensions without hurting internal dimensions too much.

I think its a clever space efficient package, the canopy effect could change opinions but that rear

compartment does look very short...

 

I think the front passenger area should be identical, but rear seat and cargo space is going to be affected. They got rid of the 3inches rearward movement of the backseat on the Bronco Sport that the Escape had. 

 

I think it won't make a big deal to most, but if you need more cargo room or haul around kids in the back seat, the edge goes to the Escape. 

[rperez817]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:09 AM, Trailhiker said:

 

Ford will make more money selling Bronco accessories than it did selling Focus and Fusions.

 

This article by Jerry Hirsch highlights how lopsided the profitability of Ford's various products and services are. https://www.trucks.com/2020/06/03/gm-ford-should-shed-models/

 

Quote

"Ford offered 47 vehicle models globally in 2019. The Dearborn, Mich., automaker’s top five models by revenue are the F-150 SuperCrew, the F-250/350 Super Duty, the Ranger, the Transit and the Focus. All but the Focus are trucks. Those vehicles account for 43 percent of Ford’s revenue and 101 percent of its automotive operating income.

 

Excluding the Focus, which Morgan Stanley says loses money, Ford’s top four products by revenue account for 120 percent of its global profit.

Trucks make Ford tick. Morgan Stanley estimated that the profit from all F-Series lines, Expedition, Transit, Ranger and Explorer makes up 160 percent of its global profit. That means those trucks are offsetting significant losses elsewhere."

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by rperez817

[rmc523]

160% of profits, now THAT'S impressive.

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think the front passenger area should be identical, but rear seat and cargo space is going to be affected. They got rid of the 3inches rearward movement of the backseat on the Bronco Sport that the Escape had. 

 

I think it won't make a big deal to most, but if you need more cargo room or haul around kids in the back seat, the edge goes to the Escape. 

 

Just to confirm your suspicions, I checked Ford's specifications for both

and Bronco Sport has 3' less rear leg room. it's similar to previous Escape.

The rear cargo area is also about 4 cu ft less, so it is a smaller vehicle.

[bzcat]

15 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

 

Just to confirm your suspicions, I checked Ford's specifications for both

and Bronco Sport has 3' less rear leg room. it's similar to previous Escape.

The rear cargo area is also about 4 cu ft less, so it is a smaller vehicle.

 

It's almost as if Ford originally designed it to slot in below Escape... ?

 

Bronco Sport is dimensional similar to other short C utilities e.g. Jeep Compass, Nissan Qashqai, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Chevy Trailblazer, VW Tharu, Skoda Karoq, Toyota CH-R etc. Originally that was the plan... to replace C-Max and compete head on with those guys but Farley didn't like the idea so this thing got the Bronco branding and premium price to match. It is priced higher and positioned as a premium vehicle due to it having standard AWD and lacking the poverty spec base model (the Escape S equivalent trim level). 

 

In theory, Ford could chase volume with a base FWD poverty spec model that matches the starting price of other short C utilities but Ford doesn't seem too eager to ramp up volume, and Hermosilo still need to factor in volume for Maverick, Transit Connect and Fusion Active. But I wouldn't rule out a FWD version for export markets - e.g. for South America where Ford is desperate for something in this size but cheaper (the original plan was to import the Territory from China but that plan was scrapped).

Edited July 22, 2020 by bzcat

[FordBuyer]

6 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

 

Just to confirm your suspicions, I checked Ford's specifications for both

and Bronco Sport has 3' less rear leg room. it's similar to previous Escape.

The rear cargo area is also about 4 cu ft less, so it is a smaller vehicle.

 

The Bronco Sport is slightly larger than the Crosstrek I just turned in, and a little taller that gives it about 10 more cubic feet of cargo space. My Crosstrek had ground clearance of about 8.2 inches, and my Escape has ground clearance of 7.8 inches, about an inch less than Sport. So the Crosstrek and Sport are very close in overall size. I believe they would take about the same space in my garage. My Escape fits fine, but noticeably takes up more space.