rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: How'd that work out for them? Hummer H1 exceeded sales expectations. The 11,818 units sold over a 14 year run was quite remarkable for a military vehicle only slightly updated for civilian use. Edited October 22, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Bolt's success, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with marketing. It's an ugly POS econobox that nobody wants to be seen in with a rubbermaid interior. Have you ever sat in one at an auto show? No amount of marketing can overcome that. Had they wrapped the powertrain in a stylish body that got your attention, they'd be flying off the lots. It has everything to do with marketing. Here are the 4 P's of marketing as it applies to Chevy Bolt. Product. GM got this mostly right when Bolt was introduced, and there's a refresh coming for 2022 that should address the vehicle's most significant flaws such as mediocre seat comfort. Bolt was the first mass produced BEV with a sticker price under $40k to have a range exceeding 230 miles in EPA testing. For 2020, range is 259 miles. This is a big deal because range is the primary measure by which BEV passenger cars are judged. Bolt also delivers very good acceleration and handling. When Bolt was introduced in 2017, it easily beat its primary competitor Nissan Leaf on all of these measures, and still does. As of 2020, Hyundai Kona Electric is somewhat better than both Bolt and Leaf for range and on most performance measures, though. Price. Overall, the base sticker price for 2020 Bolt in the U.S. of $37,495 is competitive with Leaf S Plus and Kona Electric SEL, but Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus is a much more sophisticated vehicle than any of those for about the same base price (currently $37,990). Place. When Bolt was first made available to consumers in 2016, it was only sold in California and Oregon. Bolt wasn't available for ordering in all U.S. states until almost a year later. That's a questionable marketing strategy. Even worse is what GM did with Bolt in Europe, where it was called Ampera-E. GM purposely limited deliveries of Bolt in Europe despite high demand in places like Norway. Promotion. This is where GM really screwed up with Bolt. First, the name "Bolt" sounds too similar to "Volt". Volt was a EREV not a pure BEV that has since been discontinued. Next, it failed to advertise Bolt to the extent it advertises ICE powered vehicles. Finally, GM like other incumbent automakers hasn't invested enough in EV charging infrastructure to make the ownership experience as easy and convenient as possible for customers. Edited October 22, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 GM is using a "no haggle" pricing policy for Hummer EV. https://www.autonews.com/retail/gm-promises-no-haggle-pricing-hummer-ev-edition-1-reservations-sold-out-minutes The price customers see on GMC’s website will be the price they pay, Duncan Aldred, vice president of global Buick and GMC, said Wednesday. “There will be no incentives. There will be no trickery,” Aldred said on a call with investors. “We are trying to construct a dealer margin in such a fashion that it really is a no-haggle price.” About half of GMC’s dealers have elected to sell the Hummer so far. The “Edition 1” model is due in fall 2021 and will sell for $112,595. Dealers won’t be able to discount it or mark it up, Aldred said. GMC will “deliver a one-price experience for the customer from the brand, from the website, right through to the dealer level,” he said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, rperez817 said: GM is using a "no haggle" pricing policy for Hummer EV. https://www.autonews.com/retail/gm-promises-no-haggle-pricing-hummer-ev-edition-1-reservations-sold-out-minutes I wonder how that is going to play out...good idea (since that is one of the things I hear people complain about with Ford dealerships and the MME) since Tesla does something similar. I don't think it will be popular with the dealerships, but its another sign that people are increasingly frustrated with the dealership model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Yeah that was a disappointment with the MME, there were rumors Ford was going to do something similar but didn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, rperez817 said: It has everything to do with marketing. Here are the 4 P's of marketing as it applies to Chevy Bolt. Product. GM got this mostly right when Bolt was introduced, and there's a refresh coming for 2022 that should address the vehicle's most significant flaws such as mediocre seat comfort. Bolt was the first mass produced BEV with a sticker price under $40k to have a range exceeding 230 miles in EPA testing. For 2020, range is 259 miles. This is a big deal because range is the primary measure by which BEV passenger cars are judged. Bolt also delivers very good acceleration and handling. When Bolt was introduced in 2017, it easily beat its primary competitor Nissan Leaf on all of these measures, and still does. As of 2020, Hyundai Kona Electric is somewhat better than both Bolt and Leaf for range and on most performance measures, though. Price. Overall, the base sticker price for 2020 Bolt in the U.S. of $37,495 is competitive with Leaf S Plus and Kona Electric SEL, but Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus is a much more sophisticated vehicle than any of those for about the same base price (currently $37,990). Place. When Bolt was first made available to consumers in 2016, it was only sold in California and Oregon. Bolt wasn't available for ordering in all U.S. states until almost a year later. That's a questionable marketing strategy. Even worse is what GM did with Bolt in Europe, where it was called Ampera-E. GM purposely limited deliveries of Bolt in Europe despite high demand in places like Norway. Promotion. This is where GM really screwed up with Bolt. First, the name "Bolt" sounds too similar to "Volt". Volt was a EREV not a pure BEV that has since been discontinued. Next, it failed to advertise Bolt to the extent it advertises ICE powered vehicles. Finally, GM like other incumbent automakers hasn't invested enough in EV charging infrastructure to make the ownership experience as easy and convenient as possible for customers. Ok.... None of that addresses styling, which again, is Bolt's biggest problem. No point in discussing further. Edited October 22, 2020 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 43 minutes ago, rmc523 said: No point in discussing further. Fair enough rmc523 sir, that makes sense because styling is a non issue for Chevrolet Bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Fair enough rmc523 sir, that makes sense because styling is a non issue for Chevrolet Bolt. Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I don’t mind the styling of the Bolt. It’s certainly light years better than the C-Max. GM will be addressing with the suv version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) I don't think I've ever seen a Chevy Bolt on the road. As for the Chevy Volt, there's one in town that I see on occasion and actually think it looks far better than any Prius. One of the largest Chevrolet dealerships in CT is only a mile from me. Edited October 22, 2020 by ice-capades Additional content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, akirby said: Still no. Never seen a Bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, ice-capades said: I don't think I've ever seen a Chevy Bolt on the road. As for the Chevy Volt, there's one in town that I see on occasion and actually think it looks far better than any Prius. One of the largest Chevrolet dealerships in CT is only a mile from me. Neighbor had a red Volt. Looked pretty good. If they had just made it a regular plug in hybrid with a 50 mile range and created multiple models it would have done a lot better. Not allowing the ICE to directly drive the wheels all the time hurt fuel economy. Yet another example of GM one and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 minute ago, akirby said: Neighbor had a red Volt. Looked pretty good. If they had just made it a regular plug in hybrid with a 50 mile range and created multiple models it would have done a lot better. Not allowing the ICE to directly drive the wheels all the time hurt fuel economy. Yet another example of GM one and done. Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, akirby said: Yet another example of GM one and done. Chevrolet Bolt effectively made Chevrolet Volt obsolete. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, GM's marketing people screwed up in offering both Bolt and Volt between 2016 and 2019. Volt should have never seen a second generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Chevrolet Bolt effectively made Chevrolet Volt obsolete. Hogwash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 15 hours ago, mackinaw said: The $80K version will be available spring 2024. It's October, 2020. Do the math. Is there a point to this post? What math is there to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 12 hours ago, rperez817 said: Hummer H1 exceeded sales expectations. The 11,818 units sold over a 14 year run was quite remarkable for a military vehicle only slightly updated for civilian use. And yet Hummer still went the way of the dodo bird. I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: And yet Hummer still went the way of the dodo bird. I rest my case. So did the Bronco!!!! Hummer has a lot of brand equity and recognition, just like Bronco-no surprise they revived both nameplates. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: And yet Hummer still went the way of the dodo bird. I rest my case. But what does that have to do with this new Hummer? What does the bankruptcy induced shutdown of Hummer brand have any relevance to this new truck? I don't think you have demonstrated a case for you to rest on. The negative comments I'm reading here about the Hummer reminds me of the Jeep message boards after the Bronco reveal. A bunch of pithy nonsensical justifications for why the vehicle from a brand you do not like is a dud or failure and totally ignoring objectives facts and relevance. Edited October 22, 2020 by bzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, bzcat said: But what does that have to do with this new Hummer? What does the bankruptcy induced shutdown of Hummer brand have any relevance to this new truck? I don't think you have demonstrated a case for you to rest on. The negative comments I'm reading here about the Hummer reminds me of the Jeep message boards after the Bronco reveal. A bunch of pithy nonsensical justifications for why the vehicle from a brand you do not like is a dud or failure and totally ignoring objectives facts and relevance. I wasn't comparing it to the new truck. rperez based it solely on price how it compared to the original H1. That didn't do anything to move the needle enough to keep Hummer alive and well, so how is it a good indication it's going to do that now based on price? 31 minutes ago, kyle said: So did the Bronco!!!! Hummer has a lot of brand equity and recognition, just like Bronco-no surprise they revived both nameplates. The Bronco went away for many reasons, mostly because it wasn't true to it's roots, and what it had become was no longer a viable product. I think it's cool they've revived Hummer, I just don't think this is going to do anything (financially) to help the company. The Bronco on the other hand... The Hummer here is a toy for the rich and won't sell enough to make a difference. The Bronco is going to print money for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: I think it's cool they've revived Hummer, I just don't think this is going to do anything (financially) to help the company. The Bronco on the other hand... The Hummer here is a toy for the rich and won't sell enough to make a difference. The Bronco is going to print money for a few years. This. As a concept vehicle it's cool. As a standalone product it's questionable whether it will make any net profit. OTOH a family of Hummers starting at $50K probably would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, fordmantpw said: And yet Hummer still went the way of the dodo bird. I rest my case. Hummer is not extinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, bzcat said: What math is there to do? Step 1. Count the number of posts in this thread that imply Hummer EV is priced too high. Step 2. Multiply the value obtained in Step 1 by zero. The result represents how meaningful the posts referenced in Step 1 are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Step 1. Count the number of posts in this thread that imply Hummer EV is priced too high. Step 2. Multiply the value obtained in Step 1 by zero. The result represents how meaningful the posts referenced in Step 1 are. So you think a $112K BEV is going to fly off the dealer lots and set sales records? You're delusional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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