SteelyD Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Back to Farley. Perhaps cars will make a comeback in N. America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Good luck convincing Ford to go back to vehicles with lower profit margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Good luck convincing Ford to go back to vehicles with lower profit margins. Eventually ford has to start trying to sell more vehicles, they can't cut forever. Adding the new Broncos is a good start, and the Mach-E we'll see how that goes, but eventually Ford is going to run out of room for new types of trucks and SUVs. At that point if Ford has the available resources to invest in new car development and pursue car buyers, why not start making and selling those vehicles again? By ignoring that segment you're just denying yourselves profit and market share. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Cars? Absolutely. Conventional, 4-door sedans? Nope. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 53 minutes ago, probowler said: Eventually ford has to start trying to sell more vehicles, they can't cut forever. Adding the new Broncos is a good start, and the Mach-E we'll see how that goes, but eventually Ford is going to run out of room for new types of trucks and SUVs. At that point if Ford has the available resources to invest in new car development and pursue car buyers, why not start making and selling those vehicles again? By ignoring that segment you're just denying yourselves profit and market share. Look at the number of vehicles Ford will have vs the competition. Or look at Ford in 2 years vs Ford 10 years ago. They’re not shrinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, akirby said: Look at the number of vehicles Ford will have vs the competition. Or look at Ford in 2 years vs Ford 10 years ago. They’re not shrinking. You keep saying that, but the numbers in N.A. don't back you up. Not that long ago, Ford wasn't that far behind GM in sales/month, and way ahead of Chrysler and Toyota. Now both C and T are nipping at its heels and some months Toyota outsells Ford on its home turf. Now with high volume Fusion and MKZ leaving the scene, monthly sales will drop some more on average. Meanwhile, Bronco is a year away and Sport about 6-7 months away or more. It may be years before Ford ever sells over 200,000 sales /month. Add in the Pandemic and you couldn't add in more uncertainty about future growth. Also add in U.S. Congress that can't see past extreme partisanship with no end in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 57 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: You keep saying that, but the numbers in N.A. don't back you up. Not that long ago, Ford wasn't that far behind GM in sales/month, and way ahead of Chrysler and Toyota. Now both C and T are nipping at its heels and some months Toyota outsells Ford on its home turf. Now with high volume Fusion and MKZ leaving the scene, monthly sales will drop some more on average. Meanwhile, Bronco is a year away and Sport about 6-7 months away or more. It may be years before Ford ever sells over 200,000 sales /month. Add in the Pandemic and you couldn't add in more uncertainty about future growth. Also add in U.S. Congress that can't see past extreme partisanship with no end in sight. Ford outsold Toyota by 34k units in Q2 and Ford's sales fell less than Toyota's (-32.3% vs. -34.6%). Ford outsold FCA by 65k units in Q2 and Ford's sales fell less than FCA's (-32.3% vs -38.6%). Ford also gained market share compared to GM in Q2 thanks to sales not falling as fast either (-32.3% vs -33.1%). They narrowed the gap from 94k units to 58k units year over year. You were saying........????? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 You know they’re going to keep banging on about lost sales until Bronco, Bronco Sport, Maverick and Mach E are with us. Replacements are coming to the US, we can see them now and perhaps a car or two gets added back in as low cost imports to round out sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, ausrutherford said: Ford outsold Toyota by 34k units in Q2 and Ford's sales fell less than Toyota's (-32.3% vs. -34.6%). Ford outsold FCA by 65k units in Q2 and Ford's sales fell less than FCA's (-32.3% vs -38.6%). Ford also gained market share compared to GM in Q2 thanks to sales not falling as fast either (-32.3% vs -33.1%). They narrowed the gap from 94k units to 58k units year over year. You were saying........????? Based on one quarter? Look, not that many years ago, Ford easily sold 260,00/month and had 4 to 5 nameplates in the top 10 sales race. Now they have one. Now a good month for Ford is 185,000/month. Ford has shrunk and still rumoring about closing more plants and no new plants on the horizon. That being said, the Bronco lineup looks promising with significant new volume, but still many months away. The MachE is low volume. So while the future looks good, the near term is further shrinkage. You can go to many regions of America and see very few new Fords other than F-Series and Vans. If that makes you happy, fine. It makes me sad. Here in Central Florida Ford is no longer a relevant brand unless you are a commercial truck driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: Based on one quarter? Look, not that many years ago, Ford easily sold 260,00/month and had 4 to 5 nameplates in the top 10 sales race. Now they have one. Now a good month for Ford is 185,000/month. Ford has shrunk and still rumoring about closing more plants and no new plants on the horizon. Why are you so obsessed with sales volume? Oh that’s right you’re still pissed they canceled sedans. 300k fusion or focus sales are worthless if they’re not generating profit. Remember when GM went bankrupt? They were #1 in volume. Growth in Ford’s case is adding brand new models in new market segments. And most should generate a lot more profit than the ones they cancelled. If you can’t understand the difference between growth in profit and models and market segments as opposed to sales volume then I don’t know how to explain it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) From about 2015, ford began encouraging its high value car buyers (Titanium) to move to utilities, cutting the legs off profitability coming from cars. While the sales remained “ok”, the product mix was predominantly SE, so was that a self fulfilling prophecy? You bet, especially when it started getting cold feet and cancelled San Louis Potosi. Ford is forcing itself to give up cars but unlike GM, it didn’t resort to closing three plants to do that. Edited August 10, 2020 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, akirby said: Why are you so obsessed with sales volume? Oh that’s right you’re still pissed they canceled sedans. 300k fusion or focus sales are worthless if they’re not generating profit. Remember when GM went bankrupt? They were #1 in volume. Growth in Ford’s case is adding brand new models in new market segments. And most should generate a lot more profit than the ones they cancelled. If you can’t understand the difference between growth in profit and models and market segments as opposed to sales volume then I don’t know how to explain it. I'll understand it better when I see Ford's market share, profit margin, stock price, credit rating go up. And its stock dividend reinstated. Until then, Ford is just treading water. Maybe Farley will have to turn Ford into an industrial technology company to make it relevant again to the DOW. Tap into the Defense business again and join the tech crowd where 50% profit margin is the norm with real growth. Only problem is attracting top talent to Detroit. I have this feeling Farley is aiming at this business model for future. Having to sell $150 billion of product to make a couple billion just isn't cutting it anymore. Honeywell sells low dollar turbos and is $150 growth stock and Ford sells very high dollar vehicles and keeps a few dollars in return and single digit stock price. Hopefully something of value will come out of Edison Project. GM just won a Defense project as it expands.its business model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: And its stock dividend reinstated. The ONLY (read that again, ONLY) reason the dividend was suspended was because of COVID. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 How many times do we have to explain why the stock price Isn’t a good indicator? Time to call the Wahhh-mbulance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Wayne Assembly will generate more profit out of 10 Broncos than 100 Focuses ever did. Hermosillo is generate more profit out of 10 Bronco Sports than 50 Fusions ever did. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, akirby said: How many times do we have to explain why the stock price Isn’t a good indicator? Akirby, what financial metric would you like to focus on, so that in 2 years we can see if Ford has achieved the growth you are anticipating? I'm willing to print this page off and tack it to the wall so we can remember to re-visit your prediction. Maybe one from this list? https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/f/financials HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: Honeywell sells low dollar turbos and is $150 growth stock and Ford sells very high dollar vehicles and keeps a few dollars in return and single digit stock price. Hopefully something of value will come out of Edison Project. GM just won a Defense project as it expands.its business model. Honeywell International (NYSE: HON) no longer makes turbochargers for ICE engines. That business was spun off into a separate company called Garrett Motion (NYSE: GTX) in 2018. HON is a $150 growth stock because the company is involved in high growth areas such as defense, robotics, avionics, materials science, Internet of Things, quantum computing, etc. Edited August 10, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: Remember when GM went bankrupt? They were #1 in volume. GM was not #1 in sales volume when it declared bankruptcy in 2009, either in the U.S. or globally. Toyota was #1 at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: Akirby, what financial metric would you like to focus on, so that in 2 years we can see if Ford has achieved the growth you are anticipating? I'm willing to print this page off and tack it to the wall so we can remember to re-visit your prediction. Maybe one from this list? https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/f/financials HRG Net income, EBITDA and profit margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, akirby said: Net income, EBITDA and profit margin. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, rperez817 said: GM was not #1 in sales volume when it declared bankruptcy in 2009, either in the U.S. or globally. Toyota was #1 at that time. It had been #1 the 2 previous years though and the point is still valid. They were losing their asses while they were #1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Honeywell International (NYSE: HON) no longer makes turbochargers for ICE engines. That business was spun off into a separate company called Garrett Motion (NYSE: GTX) in 2018. HON is a $150 growth stock because the company is involved in high growth areas such as defense, robotics, avionics, materials science, Internet of Things, quantum computing, etc. So why isn't Ford involved in some of these business ventures? Instead of maybe scooters and electric bikes? They used to have a defense business, but gave that up many years ago. Also a mass transit business. I have owned Honeywell stock many years and thinking about buying more with their avionics business beaten down. Most auto stocks have been stagnant for years because there isn't much growth or profit margin. So the real challenge going forward is to be seen as an industrial TECHNOLOGY company, and not just a traditional industrial company. Hope Farley can start that process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: GM was not #1 in sales volume when it declared bankruptcy in 2009, either in the U.S. or globally. Toyota was #1 at that time. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: Akirby, what financial metric would you like to focus on, Stock price is a terrible indicator of success (or lack thereof) when it comes to Ford, and will remain so while their current stock structure remains intact. Through that structure, the Ford Family retains control of Ford, which means that the big venture capitalists and institutional investors will stay away because they can't buy the one thing they actually want: control. That does keep the stock price artificially low, but it also keeps the control in the hands of people who give a sh*t about the long-term health of the company. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Based on one quarter? Look, not that many years ago, Ford easily sold 260,00/month and had 4 to 5 nameplates in the top 10 sales race. Now they have one. Now a good month for Ford is 185,000/month. Ford has shrunk and still rumoring about closing more plants and no new plants on the horizon. That being said, the Bronco lineup looks promising with significant new volume, but still many months away. The MachE is low volume. So while the future looks good, the near term is further shrinkage. You can go to many regions of America and see very few new Fords other than F-Series and Vans. If that makes you happy, fine. It makes me sad. Here in Central Florida Ford is no longer a relevant brand unless you are a commercial truck driver. Actually is was 6 of the top 10 selling vehicles and a 25% market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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