Trump re-implementing 10% tariff on aluminum from Canada

[silvrsvt]

6 hours ago, Colbytech said:

 

I think it's the tale of two countries and more likely a result of the divide, that from the outside, continues to be growing deeper and deeper.

 

Leadership always comes from the top, especially in times of crisis. I think if Trump had worn a mask, as his advisors supposedly said to do, things might look different. It's really hard to say though. I'm just going by the statements of some good friends of mine (Republicans) who live in the US, and are dead set against being told what to do.  I think in Canada, it's like being told to wear seatbelts in the car, stop at red lights and stop signs, don't drink and drive, etc. It's another thing that is being managed for the greater good.

 

I live in a Blue state and in a Red County. In the grand scheme of things, the mask thing is bullshit to a point-I'd venture to say that at least 40% of people wearing a mask are doing some improperly (i.e. no covering their nose etc), which puts a serious dent in its effectiveness. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

On 8/12/2020 at 4:13 AM, valve said:

 

Compliance (mask wearing) did increase once the government made it mandatory, where I am in Canada. Went from ~65% to ~98% compliance.

Canada is also a country where the people historically trust the government more than in the States. Conflicting messages don't help. From what I've noticed about Canada is there seems to be way more of a unified message from the Federal and provincial governments. We keep getting mixed messages from the federal government itself before we even get to the state level. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

Canadians pull over and let you pass if you’re driving faster than them.  In the US we just block traffic and say screw you.  Pretty much the same way with masks.

[FordBuyer]

51 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Canada is also a country where the people historically trust the government more than in the States. Conflicting messages don't help. From what I've noticed about Canada is there seems to be way more of a unified message from the Federal and provincial governments. We keep getting mixed messages from the federal government itself before we even get to the state level. 

 

Mixed messaging is putting it mildly. How about many not listening to health experts at all, and even threatening their lives so much so that many health department specialists are resigning in fear. I've noted that a few on here seem to think covid gives binary results only as in either small chance you die or you have a few minor symptoms and then all better.

 

There is a big middle area where you have more than minor symptoms, and long term problems for months if not years as in reduced lung capacity, blood clots, heart problems, and so on.

 

For example, FL has had over 30,000 covid patients in hospital, and over 8,500 deaths so far. Many of those will recover, but no one knows how many will recover fully. Many probably won't. And God knows how many are sick at home and having symptoms for months. I know a couple who were very athletic, but still not fully recovered months later. Their quality of life has dropped significantly. 

 

Meanwhile, here kids are going back to school and colleges and dorms reopening with flu/cold season around the corner and no leadership at the top with Fauci and Birx neutered. God help us all. 

 

 

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

How can you honestly listen to anything Fauci says when he flip-flops worse than John Kerry? 
 

seriously, it seems like at minimum once a week he changes his stance on something 

[FordBuyer]

8 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

How can you honestly listen to anything Fauci says when he flip-flops worse than John Kerry? 
 

seriously, it seems like at minimum once a week he changes his stance on something 

 

So who do you listen to? Not idiot Trump I hope. I listen to virus science experts, not idiot know nothings. And that goes for my idiot governor DeSantis who now is trying to force school districts here to fully open. Just like Trump, I bet his kids will be doing virtual learning until this is over, whenever that is. 

 

[Colbytech]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:13 AM, silvrsvt said:

 

I live in a Blue state and in a Red County. In the grand scheme of things, the mask thing is bullshit to a point-I'd venture to say that at least 40% of people wearing a mask are doing some improperly (i.e. no covering their nose etc), which puts a serious dent in its effectiveness. 

I can't disagree with that, there's a lot of people not wearing their mask properly. That being said, even wearing it may have some level of effectiveness which is better than nothing. I think the bigger issue with masks is that people keep adjusting them  and/or touching their faces which is what you don't want to do.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So who do you listen to? Not idiot Trump I hope. I listen to virus science experts, not idiot know nothings. And that goes for my idiot governor DeSantis who now is trying to force school districts here to fully open. Just like Trump, I bet his kids will be doing virtual learning until this is over, whenever that is. 

 

My own personal physician. My wife's OB since she's 8 months pregnant. Absolutely nobody affiliated with the government because they've all made this political and have all been politically compromised. 

[probowler]

 

 

2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So who do you listen to? Not idiot Trump I hope. I listen to virus science experts, not idiot know nothings. And that goes for my idiot governor DeSantis who now is trying to force school districts here to fully open. Just like Trump, I bet his kids will be doing virtual learning until this is over, whenever that is. 

 

What about this Viral expert?
 

It seems ridiculous that we're still reading stories from doctors frustrated by attempts to stifle hydroxychloroquine testing simply over fear and politicking. People keep saying "listen to the doctors" but they don't want to hear from all the doctors.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/08/fda-denies-michigan-hospitals-request-to-treat-coronavirus-with-hydroxychloroquine.html
 

https://www.newsweek.com/uk-scientists-hydroxychloroquine-1523671

 

Quote

 

"(The politicization) has been a major impediment to conducting the clinical trials needed to provide the answers the questions above. It has adversely affected the performance of regulatory authorities, and it has polarized media opinion and public attitudes," White told Newsweek.

 

In the U.K., the regulatory body for medicines halted trials into the drug following the publication of a paper in The Lancet that sparked fears of increased deaths from its use against COVID-19.

This paper was later retracted because of flaws in the data, and trials were subsequently allowed to restart. However, White said the controversy over the drug, which has been touted by President Donald Trump and other high profile figures like Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro, has made it more difficult to recruit participants while hospitals have also pulled out of the trial, the BBC reported.

 

It's clear that more studies and testing are needed, but so is an honest and open public discussion. We all need to stop fighting each other, but we also need to drop the fear mongering and tackle this issue bravely and rationally.

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

My own personal physician. My wife's OB since she's 8 months pregnant. Absolutely nobody affiliated with the government because they've all made this political and have all been politically compromised. 

 

I feel for people like you who have to go to work and work with others, have pregnant spouses, and school age children. I can't even imagine how difficult that is. This is an awake nightmare. We are going to feel the effects for a long time.

[fuzzymoomoo]

24 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I feel for people like you who have to go to work and work with others, have pregnant spouses, and school age children. I can't even imagine how difficult that is. This is an awake nightmare. We are going to feel the effects for a long time.

Zero fear whatsoever now that we're months into this and there's more and more evidence showing that this is far less dangerous than we were originally lead to believe. 

[akirby]

5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Zero fear whatsoever now that we're months into this and there's more and more evidence showing that this is far less dangerous than we were originally lead to believe. 

What makes you say it’s less dangerous?  In GA our hospital ICUs are 85% full and our death rate is averaging over 50 per day for the last month. 
More and more younger people are being hospitalized and there is more evidence of long term issues.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

10 minutes ago, akirby said:

What makes you say it’s less dangerous?  In GA our hospital ICUs are 85% full and our death rate is averaging over 50 per day for the last month. 
More and more younger people are being hospitalized and there is more evidence of long term issues.  

Doesn't matter.  No matter what sources I give you everyone is going to call me full of shit like they always do because I'm not blindly following what the government says. 

[HotRunrGuy]

24 minutes ago, akirby said:

What makes you say it’s less dangerous?  In GA our hospital ICUs are 85% full and our death rate is averaging over 50 per day for the last month. 
More and more younger people are being hospitalized and there is more evidence of long term issues.  

 

Y'all need to move north. Illinois ICU bed numbers as of today. IL has a population of 2.9 mil more, too.

 

HRG

[akirby]

21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Doesn't matter.  No matter what sources I give you everyone is going to call me full of shit like they always do because I'm not blindly following what the government says. 

Im not listening to anybody except the nurses and doctors actually treating people and looking at raw data.  The biggest one for me is the number of deaths overall and deaths from influenza, pneumonia and covid combined compared to previous years.  By all those measures deaths are WAY up.

[Colleen]

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

How can you honestly listen to anything Fauci says when he flip-flops worse than John Kerry? 
 

seriously, it seems like at minimum once a week he changes his stance on something 

I think in a pandemic that we have never seen the likes of before, the advice changes as the data changes. We can't possibly expect health experts to know exactly what to do out of the gate.  If something is "novel" it is just as the word suggests, new, but also original, fresh and unique. And just as the name "science" implies, it's a systematic study of the physical and natural work through observation and experiment. I would expect advice to change and change frequently as more is documented and analyzed. Health experts and scientists are not politicians. They experiment, learn  and share results.  That's just my two cents. 

[Colleen]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Zero fear whatsoever now that we're months into this and there's more and more evidence showing that this is far less dangerous than we were originally lead to believe. 

My very healthy sister who is 59 years old, exercises, eats great, good spirit got the virus from her husband. 2 weeks later she was on a vent and we were saying goodbye with the nurse holding the phone. Luckily, the Remdisvir & steroid regiment had a positive effect and she slowly turned around. She has permanent damage to her lungs and possibly to her kidneys.  Her husband had flu symptoms and her 90 year old mother-in-law was asymptomatic.  So, not so easy to give advice when you have one household that had 3 different responses. Please, you don't want to be on the other end of the phone with someone you love while they fight for their lives all alone. I would't wish what my family went through on my worst enemy. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

See this is exactly what I'm talking about

 

not once did I ever say I wish it upon anyone

 

I simply said I'm not afraid. I'm not going to live in fear forever.

 

 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Colleen said:

I think in a pandemic that we have never seen the likes of before, the advice changes as the data changes. We can't possibly expect health experts to know exactly what to do out of the gate.  If something is "novel" it is just as the word suggests, new, but also original, fresh and unique. And just as the name "science" implies, it's a systematic study of the physical and natural work through observation and experiment. 

 

You are completely correct, but the issue is that people can't adjust to change in general. As a group they want answers and I'm going with simple ones at that. 

 

Seems like not many people can literally "roll with the punches" and adjust as things go on. They pick an invisible line and then pick that hill to die on figuratively.  Then add in some people's political biases and how some leadership is treating this at the state level, well you have the perfect fuel for the shit show we are in now. 

 

 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

You are completely correct, but the issue is that people can't adjust to change in general. As a group they want answers and I'm going with simple ones at that. 

 

Seems like not many people can literally "roll with the punches" and adjust as things go on. They pick an invisible line and then pick that hill to die on figuratively.  Then add in some people's political biases and how some leadership is treating this at the state level, well you have the perfect fuel for the shit show we are in now. 

 

 

I notice that, it's much more than reactance (rebel against imposed restrictions) it's more  about forming

an opinion that suits their intended actions that sometimes trades away protection and safety (1% airplane crash)

by basic flaws in logic when they can't afford to be wrong (undiagnosed pre-existing conditions). I don't pretend to

know how the US gets on top of this or whether it will before a vaccine is available but people should manage risks

by having a proper check up so that you know if your at significant risk to the virus and work from there.

 

The first control that needs to be in place is plasma injections with antibodies for those hospitalised to stop 

them advancing to life threatening stages. Reduce deaths and ICU strain and it becomes more manageable.

There are now plenty of recovered folks that could donate blood that  offers a partial treatment to the virus.

Edited August 14, 2020 by jpd80

[akirby]

39 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I notice that, it's much more than reactance (rebel against imposed restrictions) it's more  about forming

an opinion that suits their intended actions that sometimes trades away protection and safety (1% airplane crash)

by basic flaws in logic when they can't afford to be wrong (undiagnosed pre-existing conditions). I don't pretend to

know how the US gets on top of this or whether it will before a vaccine is available but people should manage risks

by having a proper check up so that you know if your at significant risk to the virus and work from there.

 

The first control that needs to be in place is plasma injections with antibodies for those hospitalised to stop 

them advancing to life threatening stages. Reduce deaths and ICU strain and it becomes more manageable.

There are now plenty of recovered folks that could donate blood that  offers a partial treatment to the virus.

Confirmation bias.  You hear something that reinforces what you want to believe and you believe it.

[jpd80]

6 minutes ago, akirby said:

Confirmation bias.  You hear something that reinforces what you want to believe and you believe it.

And haven't we seen plenty of that on BON. The Explorer thread springs to mind.....any Tesla thread....

Once their minds are made up, it seems really hard to hit the reset and evaluate a shift in paradigm

because that means admitting that your original position was wrong/misinformed.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The first control that needs to be in place is plasma injections with antibodies for those hospitalised to stop 

them advancing to life threatening stages. Reduce deaths and ICU strain and it becomes more manageable.

There are now plenty of recovered folks that could donate blood that  offers a partial treatment to the virus.

We are at this point more or less...the press is focusing on numbers only without any additional details. 
 

I heard that NZ is going through this now-a cluster of infected people suddenly springs up and it’s knives out for the government.  

[Colleen]

20 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

See this is exactly what I'm talking about

 

not once did I ever say I wish it upon anyone

 

I simply said I'm not afraid. I'm not going to live in fear forever.

 

 

Oh I was not insinuating that at all and I’m sorry if you took it that way. Believe it or not, my fear is that you have no fear or healthy respect for this unknown thing that could upend your life. I just don’t want you to go through what my family went through. That’s all I was trying to say by sharing my very personal story. 

[FordBuyer]

23 minutes ago, Colleen said:

Oh I was not insinuating that at all and I’m sorry if you took it that way. Believe it or not, my fear is that you have no fear or healthy respect for this unknown thing that could upend your life. I just don’t want you to go through what my family went through. That’s all I was trying to say by sharing my very personal story. 

 

Colleen..... my heart goes out to you and your loved ones who have experienced this horrible disease.

 

While I have had some friends get this and still experiencing problems, no relatives as of yet.

 

I have the feeling that by the end of the year EVERYONE will know someone who has become infected with covid. Viruses mutate also and who knows what awaits us as temps drop.