2021 Explorer prices to be lowered.

[FordBuyer]

24 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

There are some here that can't help but fawn over Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisade. How the Explorer is so far inferior to them. Yet look at those Q2 sales numbers. Combining both Koreans and the Explorer still handily outsells them. How could this happen?  The reviewers from Motor Trend and Car and Driver said the Explorer was garbage.

 

Can we all agree the Explorer was overall a well designed/engineered vehicle that was priced a little higher than expected and plagued with a terrible launch? Seems like people are liking what they offer. This narrative that the Explorer is a poor vehicle in it's class has been overblown

 

Lost in this conversation is how many of those  Explorer sales are cop cars?  Kind of like talking about Charger sales and how many were cop sales. Ford used to separate Exporer sales out, but clumps them together now.

 

[bzcat]

42 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

There are some here that can't help but fawn over Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisade. How the Explorer is so far inferior to them. Yet look at those Q2 sales numbers. Combining both Koreans and the Explorer still handily outsells them. How could this happen?  The reviewers from Motor Trend and Car and Driver said the Explorer was garbage.

 

Can we all agree the Explorer was overall a well designed/engineered vehicle that was priced a little higher than expected and plagued with a terrible launch? Seems like people are liking what they offer. This narrative that the Explorer is a poor vehicle in it's class has been overblown

 

Explorer is not a poor vehicle, just not the best as its optimistic MSRP suggests. 

 

Hyundai started from 0 and got nearly 12% of the market for large 3 row CUV in less than 18 months. Palisade and Telluride combined now sell as much as Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander. This is what a serious competitor looks like. Ford is right to take the threat seriously. Ford's lead in this segment is by no mean safe. You can bet Hyundai is not going to let down and will be coming out with new Palisade and Telluride every 4 or 5 years like clockwork. If Ford thinks it can rest on its laurels and not do anything to respond to the threat, it will get buried just like it got ran over in the compact CUV segment.

 

Using the data that was posted in this thread:

 

Buick Enclave 7,453 - 3.1%

Chevy Traverse 22,315 - 9.3%

Dodge Durango 11,694 -  5.0%

Ford Explorer 44,839 - 19.0%

GMC Acadia 15,243 - 6.4%

Honda Pilot 30,917 - 13.0%

Hyundai Palisade 19,366 - 8.1%

Kia Telluride 8,550 - 3.6%

Mazda CX-9 6,232 - 2.6%

Nissan Pathfinder 8,861 - 3.7%

Subaru Ascent 15,773 - 6.6%

Toyota Highlander 31,181 - 13.0%

VW Atlas 16,321 - 6.8%

Total 238,745

 

GM - 18.8%

Ford - 19.0%

Honda - 13.0%

Hyundai - 11.7%

Toyota - 13.0%

Toyota + Subaru + Mazda (Toyota affiliated companies) - 22.2%

 

Keep in mind that this is using the 2020 Q2 data... if you use the 2019 Q2 data, Ford is not even the top seller. GM and Toyota both outsold Ford in 3 row CUV, by significant margin. Ford had launch and supply issues in 2019 so it probably wasn't a fair look but there is reason to think that if auto market rebounds and other brands recover, Explorer sales could stall once it is no longer fresh or new. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by bzcat

[FR739]

1 hour ago, kyle said:

 

I don't see that data to support they are the clear market leader-not sure what you are seeing?  And again, i've never seen Ford or really anyone in the industry push out pricing and then drop it signficantly because they are testing the market-why would they do this-even as you said, they own it? If they owned it-they certainly would not have to test the market. They overpriced the vehicle and are now adjusting it to better match current competitors and to ensure they continue to stay a major player in one of the largest segments and most profitable. 

Remember too that Ford is now combining fleet sales with retail sales numbers.  And with the Taurus gone, most agencies are just buying Explorers if they are choosing Ford.  
 

That was certainly by design.  They knew sales would be lower due to the high pricing (and perhaps the lower quality relative to the competition) and are attempting to hide that by supplementing the numbers with fleet sales.  

[akirby]

19 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Lost in this conversation is how many of those  Explorer sales are cop cars?  Kind of like talking about Charger sales and how many were cop sales. Ford used to separate Exporer sales out, but clumps them together now.

 

Quote

Explorer’s estimated retail share of segment totals more than 17.5 percent, representing almost 6 full percentage points of gain in retail share over a year ago.

 

Commercial Fleet sales were down 78% in Q2 which would include PIUs.   Most of these gains were retail sales.

[bzcat]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

 

Commercial Fleet sales were down 78% in Q2 which would include PIUs.   Most of these gains were retail sales.

 

PIU would be Govt fleet sale not commercial.

 

The Q2 sales report says rental sales was down 94% and commercial was off 78%. No mention of changes in Govt fleet sales so it's not clear what % of Explorer sales are PIU. But Ford did report 13.3% market share in retail sale, its best showing in years so one has to assume Explorer was largely responsible for that since it is the only model showing significant year over year growth. 

 

edit: actually, Ford did report enough information for us to calculate this.

 

In the Q2 report, Ford said Explorer Q2 retail share was 17.5%. But total volume of 3 row CUV that I calculated above shows Explorer at 19%. So safe to assume at least 1.5% of Explorer sales in Q2 was fleet, or roughly 670 units.

Edited August 11, 2020 by bzcat

[akirby]

6 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

PIU would be Govt fleet sale not commercial.

 

The Q2 sales report says rental sales was down 94% and commercial was off 78%. No mention of changes in Govt fleet sales so it's not clear what % of Explorer sales are PIU. But Ford did report 13.3% market share in retail sale, its best showing in years so one has to assume Explorer was largely responsible for that since it is the only model showing significant year over year growth. 

When you go from 11.5% retail share to 17.5% that’s not done with PIU sales.

[tbone]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

Surprised the Explorer kept the color changing ambient lighting. Bronco Sport, F-150, Super duty, Escape all went to the ice blue with no ability to change color. 

Yes, it’s really irritating they did that. It’s a feature I really like.  

[jasonj80]

9 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

There are some here that can't help but fawn over Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisade. How the Explorer is so far inferior to them. Yet look at those Q2 sales numbers. Combining both Koreans and the Explorer still handily outsells them. How could this happen?  The reviewers from Motor Trend and Car and Driver said the Explorer was garbage.

 

Can we all agree the Explorer was overall a well designed/engineered vehicle that was priced a little higher than expected and plagued with a terrible launch? Seems like people are liking what they offer. This narrative that the Explorer is a poor vehicle in it's class has been overblown

One of the Explorer's problem was that it was too expensive but that could be and has been fixed with rebates (Currently $3300), A bigger problem was/is the packaging and the disaster that was the launch. Car and Drive/Motor Trend don't really matter anymore the only review that is important to car buying public is Consumer Reports, and CR gushes over the Palisade/Telluride. 

[FR739]

41 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

 its best showing in years so one has to assume Explorer was largely responsible for that since it is the only model showing significant year over year growth. 

Not hard to grow year over year when the year prior the factory was being retooled and there just wasn’t any being made. 
 

2nd quarter 2019 sales for the Explorer were down 37.6% (35,374 vs 56,674) and down 20% (88,860 vs 110,805) YTD.  The Explorer PI was down 50.9% (4,527 vs 9,228) for the quarter and down 26.6% (13,143 vs 17,901) YTD.  
 

The bloodshed continued for the third quarter of 2019.  Explorer sales were down 48% to 31,546 and YTD sales were off 30%.  The Explorer PI was down 68.1% (2,408 units vs 7,553) and YTD sales were down 38.9% (15,551 vs 25,454). 

 

And you can bet that they sold more than 670 Explorer PIs in the quarter.  Even last years 2,408 for the 3rd quarter equates to 803 units a month.  

[jasonj80]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

Yes, it’s really irritating they did that. It’s a feature I really like.  

I don't understand it, they must show the car buying public doesn't care (Which the people adding it back to F-150/Superduty would differ); or its a place where they can make an huge impact (say $5 or $10 a unit) in cost savings. Gets the MBA a nice bonus! 

Edited August 11, 2020 by jasonj80

[jcartwright99]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

Yes, it’s really irritating they did that. It’s a feature I really like.  

 

Really? I always thought it was kinda a gimmick. With my Fusion, I set it to blue the first week I had it and never touched it since. I wonder if they realized that most people just set it to blue anyway?

[snooter]

I was told the atp was fords golden ticket to nirvana.....

[akirby]

17 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Really? I always thought it was kinda a gimmick. With my Fusion, I set it to blue the first week I had it and never touched it since. I wonder if they realized that most people just set it to blue anyway?

Ive had it on 3 or 4 vehicles.  I played with it a couple of times and just set it to blue and left it.

[fuzzymoomoo]

19 minutes ago, akirby said:

Ive had it on 3 or 4 vehicles.  I played with it a couple of times and just set it to blue and left it.

I thought I would miss it when I got rid of my Focus but I really don't. It's a cute little option but I can definitely live without it. 

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

 Surprised the Explorer kept the color changing ambient lighting. Bronco Sport, F-150, Super duty, Escape all went to the ice blue with no ability to change color. 

 

IMO its a waste of time. I had a color changing gauge cluster in my 2006 Mustang GT and I can change the ambient lighting in my SHO...I think I messed with it for a little bit and kept it the same after that. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

25 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

IMO its a waste of time. I had a color changing gauge cluster in my 2006 Mustang GT and I can change the ambient lighting in my SHO...I think I messed with it for a little bit and kept it the same after that. 

I changed it in my focus every now and then just for S&Gs but more often than not I left it on the darker blue color (ice blue was too bright for my liking). 

[rmc523]

I change my color occasionally, but not often - more often than not, I'll have it on the cyan/ice blue to match the buttons anyway.  In my '18 Mustang, I do like being able to swap the colors around in the gauge cluster (for instance, I'll make it red/green around Christmas lol).   But that's also a screen, which is different than single color LEDs.

[jasonj80]

Where Ford needs to get better is dealer accessories and upgrades. Things like the Ambient lighting could very easily be switched to full color at the dealer. (Unplug the single-color LED and plug in full color and code on Forscan Its literally what people do with F-150's/SD ) Make Ice blue Standard and have an upgrade at the dealer for $300-$400 that allows 256 colors that you can control from the Sync 4, make the colors automatically fit the season or holiday and do it from the Ford Pass app. Same goes for wheels the tires, if someone wants different OEM wheels let them change them at the dealer for $500/$1000 upgrade right there. Its not difficult to have those items be around and done at delivery. It is one area where the Asians have far exceeded and allow for easily customization, it also allows some incremental pricing. 
If someone is looking at an Edge now likes the way the 20" wheels look but can't afford a loaded Titanium with them, why not let them just pay $500/$1000 and put them on their SEL right at the dealer. Quick way to make extra money it would also go with the "customization" craze and make vehicles owner know their vehicle is one of kind and their own. Rather than giving some one $1000 cash back, give them $1000 in customizations to make the vehicle theirs. That is Huge with millennials, it is not a one off. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by jasonj80

[jpd80]

16 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Explorer is not a poor vehicle, just not the best as its optimistic MSRP suggests. 

 

Hyundai started from 0 and got nearly 12% of the market for large 3 row CUV in less than 18 months. Palisade and Telluride combined now sell as much as Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander. This is what a serious competitor looks like. Ford is right to take the threat seriously. Ford's lead in this segment is by no mean safe. You can bet Hyundai is not going to let down and will be coming out with new Palisade and Telluride every 4 or 5 years like clockwork. If Ford thinks it can rest on its laurels and not do anything to respond to the threat, it will get buried just like it got ran over in the compact CUV segment.

 

Using the data that was posted in this thread:

 

Buick Enclave 7,453 - 3.1%

Chevy Traverse 22,315 - 9.3%

Dodge Durango 11,694 -  5.0%

Ford Explorer 44,839 - 19.0%

GMC Acadia 15,243 - 6.4%

Honda Pilot 30,917 - 13.0%

Hyundai Palisade 19,366 - 8.1%

Kia Telluride 8,550 - 3.6%

Mazda CX-9 6,232 - 2.6%

Nissan Pathfinder 8,861 - 3.7%

Subaru Ascent 15,773 - 6.6%

Toyota Highlander 31,181 - 13.0%

VW Atlas 16,321 - 6.8%

Total 238,745

 

GM - 18.8%

Ford - 19.0%

Honda - 13.0%

Hyundai - 11.7%

Toyota - 13.0%

Toyota + Subaru + Mazda (Toyota affiliated companies) - 22.2%

 

Keep in mind that this is using the 2020 Q2 data... if you use the 2019 Q2 data, Ford is not even the top seller. GM and Toyota both outsold Ford in 3 row CUV, by significant margin. Ford had launch and supply issues in 2019 so it probably wasn't a fair look but there is reason to think that if auto market rebounds and other brands recover, Explorer sales could stall once it is no longer fresh or new. 

You’re a bit tough, production of the 2020 Explorer didn’t start until 6 May, 2019, so had zero impact on Q2 2019 sales. More likely that buyers were holding off buying the run out model?

[akirby]

Some people are just hell bent on declaring the Explorer a disaster and for the life of me I can’t figure out why.

[FR739]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

You’re a bit tough, production of the 2020 Explorer didn’t start until 6 May, 2019, so had zero impact on Q2 2019 sales. More likely that buyers were holding off buying the run out model?

It had zero impact on Q3 sales as well as the Explorer sales plummeted from the Q2 numbers (declines more than doubled from 20% to 48%).

 

Only in Q4 did the bloodshed begin to subside. Q4 2019 sales of the Explorer were down 14.6% from 2018 (48,083 vs 56,316). YTD sales were down a whopping 26.1% (168,309 vs 227,732). 
 

The Explorer PI did far worse (probably because they wanted retail units out the door first). Q4 sales were down 61.8% (3,201 vs 8,385) and YTD sales were down a staggering 44.6% (18,752 vs 33,839).  But even those numbers show that the speculated 670 unit sales of the Explorer PI in Q2 2020 are far from reality.  2019 average monthly unit sales for the Explorer PI were 1,563.  For 2018 they were 2,820/month.  I would bet 2020 sales are somewhere between those two numbers.    

[Trailhiker]

10 minutes ago, akirby said:

Some people are just hell bent on declaring the Explorer a disaster and for the life of me I can’t figure out why.

 

I think it fits the market perfectly. It seems to be very good at what it does. My only beef is the styling, but it is really no worse than the competition overall. It is just not what I hoped for.

I would easily pick the Explorer over the Korean and Japanese brands.

[T-dubz]

Ambient lighting would be better if ford switched it to a design like Lincoln or Mercedes use. Both of those seem to have a much bigger impact than what ford currently has.

 

[tbone]

20 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

I don't understand it, they must show the car buying public doesn't care (Which the people adding it back to F-150/Superduty would differ); or its a place where they can make an huge impact (say $5 or $10 a unit) in cost savings. Gets the MBA a nice bonus! 

Likely a combination of both. 

[tbone]

20 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

Really? I always thought it was kinda a gimmick. With my Fusion, I set it to blue the first week I had it and never touched it since. I wonder if they realized that most people just set it to blue anyway?

My whole family likes it and the color gets changed periodically.  It’s currently red.  I think it provides a negative impression when your previous Ford vehicle had it, and the new one doesn’t.  Most people don’t like loosing things on a new vehicle that their old vehicle had, especially on higher trim models and something so simple.