2021 Explorer prices to be lowered.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, FR739 said:

It had zero impact on Q3 sales as well as the Explorer sales plummeted from the Q2 numbers (declines more than doubled from 20% to 48%).

 

Only in Q4 did the bloodshed begin to subside. Q4 2019 sales of the Explorer were down 14.6% from 2018 (48,083 vs 56,316). YTD sales were down a whopping 26.1% (168,309 vs 227,732). 
 

The Explorer PI did far worse (probably because they wanted retail units out the door first). Q4 sales were down 61.8% (3,201 vs 8,385) and YTD sales were down a staggering 44.6% (18,752 vs 33,839).  But even those numbers show that the speculated 670 unit sales of the Explorer PI in Q2 2020 are far from reality.  2019 average monthly unit sales for the Explorer PI were 1,563.  For 2018 they were 2,820/month.  I would bet 2020 sales are somewhere between those two numbers.    

 Illinois?   Disgruntled current or former CAP worker?

Edited August 12, 2020 by akirby

[HotRunrGuy]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Illinois?   Disgruntled current or former CAP worker?

 

Do you think it's appropriate to use your Moderator access to stalk IP addresses, or registration information?  Seems like an abuse of responsibility.

 

HRG

Edited August 12, 2020 by akirby

[CKNSLS]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Some people are just hell bent on declaring the Explorer a disaster and for the life of me I can’t figure out why.

Ford combining the Interceptor sales in to the regular models really doesn't help.  Some would conclude they are trying to hide the "real numbers". As a matter of fact-many on here said that was indeed the case.

I believe on another discussion-a member said "because the stand-alone-numbers were being used against them."

 

 

[akirby]

28 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

Ford combining the Interceptor sales in to the regular models really doesn't help.  Some would conclude they are trying to hide the "real numbers". As a matter of fact-many on here said that was indeed the case.

I believe on another discussion-a member said "because the stand-alone-numbers were being used against them."

 

 

Why does it matter either way?  These aren’t daily rental sales.  I’m sure they’re quite profitable either way.  And selling almost twice as many as your nearest Competitor even with higher prices is certainly not a bad thing.

[akirby]

33 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Do you think it's appropriate to use your Moderator access to stalk IP addresses, or registration information?

When someone joins the forum and immediately makes 3 negative posts - yes.  But I will delete the city.

[jasonj80]

27 minutes ago, tbone said:

My whole family likes it and the color gets changed periodically.  It’s currently red.  I think it provides a negative impression when your previous Ford vehicle had it, and the new one doesn’t.  Most people don’t like loosing things on a new vehicle that their old vehicle had, especially on higher trim models and something so simple.  

It is the problem Ford has had for years, I still remember when they had lights in the seatbelt buckles to find them at night, or when all their vehicles had lights in the glovebox. Ford always has great plans for features but finance people at Ford wield a great amount of power and a lot of things get cut. (ex. Rain Sensing wipers were originally going to be part of Co-Pilot 360, why the Fusion and Edge have them standard, and they were included with the Safe and Smart package prior) They could save money by cutting them so they did. 

Ford didn't evolve the ambient lighting the way others did even though they basically launched it back in '08 with the color changing lighting on the Escape and Focus. BMW's have where the layers can be different colors, (White, Blue, White) MB, VW, Hyundai/Kia are more with the light pipes and far more colors. Ford even used to have it where the door would turn Red if the door was open but even that programming was removed.  They didn't innovate with it just they cut it.

The Explorer is a story in itself; The Explorer could have been best in class even after the architecture debacle. There is no reason that the 10" screen only be optional on the Platinum and ST, that the hybrid is "limited" to just one model. That the interior in both the Explorer and Escape are slightly below what the class offered, adding $100 in quality materials would have changed that, something that they are doing ASAP  which shows they listen, materials are a running change Ford has never done that before. They however also need to cut costs they eliminated the Heated Wiper park from the Explorer for 2021. (Any one who lives in a cold climate knows what a great feature this is, when you drive you don't have the blades icing up in snow)  Explorer got F***** to late in the development, from starting to stopping a few times; then they pulled everything out of the program which drove fixed costs through the roof and needed to cut everywhere possible to make the numbers even remotely work, Aviator was spared as they needed to make sure it was a halo product as they were trying to rebuild Lincolns image, which the Explorer had to make up for in cuts.  Also because of the programs that got cancelled/removed the Explorer is not nearly as profitable as some think it is. Looking back they should have scrapped it all, and just done an extended C2 which was being considered during the last review - problem was that it couldn't be ready until Spring of 2021 2+ years from when the Explorer was to launch. If Ford management would have known (err listened to the Engineers screaming back in 2017/18) about the early Quality Issues and  then COVID-19 they would have just dragged the old model through until then.   

The current Explorer isn't a bad car, it is actually really good for what the program went though. Was just designed and conceived under very different circumstances many times in its design life; If I had kids I'd have a Red ST (with the Extended Warranty). 

 

[rmc523]

37 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

It is the problem Ford has had for years, I still remember when they had lights in the seatbelt buckles to find them at night, or when all their vehicles had lights in the glovebox. Ford always has great plans for features but finance people at Ford wield a great amount of power and a lot of things get cut. (ex. Rain Sensing wipers were originally going to be part of Co-Pilot 360, why the Fusion and Edge have them standard, and they were included with the Safe and Smart package prior) They could save money by cutting them so they did. 

Ford didn't evolve the ambient lighting the way others did even though they basically launched it back in '08 with the color changing lighting on the Escape and Focus. BMW's have where the layers can be different colors, (White, Blue, White) MB, VW, Hyundai/Kia are more with the light pipes and far more colors. Ford even used to have it where the door would turn Red if the door was open but even that programming was removed.  They didn't innovate with it just they cut it.

The Explorer is a story in itself; The Explorer could have been best in class even after the architecture debacle. There is no reason that the 10" screen only be optional on the Platinum and ST, that the hybrid is "limited" to just one model. That the interior in both the Explorer and Escape are slightly below what the class offered, adding $100 in quality materials would have changed that, something that they are doing ASAP  which shows they listen, materials are a running change Ford has never done that before. They however also need to cut costs they eliminated the Heated Wiper park from the Explorer for 2021. (Any one who lives in a cold climate knows what a great feature this is, when you drive you don't have the blades icing up in snow)  Explorer got F***** to late in the development, from starting to stopping a few times; then they pulled everything out of the program which drove fixed costs through the roof and needed to cut everywhere possible to make the numbers even remotely work, Aviator was spared as they needed to make sure it was a halo product as they were trying to rebuild Lincolns image, which the Explorer had to make up for in cuts.  Also because of the programs that got cancelled/removed the Explorer is not nearly as profitable as some think it is. Looking back they should have scrapped it all, and just done an extended C2 which was being considered during the last review - problem was that it couldn't be ready until Spring of 2021 2+ years from when the Explorer was to launch. If Ford management would have known (err listened to the Engineers screaming back in 2017/18) about the early Quality Issues and  then COVID-19 they would have just dragged the old model through until then.   

The current Explorer isn't a bad car, it is actually really good for what the program went though. Was just designed and conceived under very different circumstances many times in its design life; If I had kids I'd have a Red ST (with the Extended Warranty). 

 

 

I don't think C2 can accommodate something as large as Explorer.

[CKNSLS]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Why does it matter either way?  These aren’t daily rental sales.  I’m sure they’re quite profitable either way.  And selling almost twice as many as your nearest Competitor even with higher prices is certainly not a bad thing.

We do not know how profitable they are or are not. The fact is combining the Interceptor numbers in to retail numbers was done for a reason-because Ford purposely wanted to "cloud" the numbers.

[bzcat]

32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't think C2 can accommodate something as large as Explorer.

 

I think it can. Its predecessor C1/CD4 had no problem handling Galaxy/S-Max/Edge 7 seat duties some of which are almost as heavy as Explorer, as well as Taurus and Continental which are longer. VW managed to scale MQB from Polo all the way up to Atlas. Toyota does the same with TGNA from Yaris to Highlander. It's not ineherntly that difficult.

 

The issue is C2 can't accept the longitude drivetrain options, including the PHEV and hybrid and 10 speed auto, that were paid for by F-150. The reason CD6 went RWD was to take advantage of that development saving... spreading the fixed costs over a much higher unit volume once you factor in Transit and F-150 and Mustang. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by bzcat

[rmc523]

5 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

I think it can. It's predecessor C1/CD4 had no problem handling Galaxy/S-Max/Edge 7 seat duties some of which are almost as heavy as Explorer, as well as Taurus and Continental which are longer.  

 

The issue is C2 can't accept the longitude drivetrain options, including the PHEV and hybrid, that were paid for by F-150. 

 

Hm. I guess it's better to say that C2 can't accommodate what they wanted to do with Explorer even if it could get to something that size.

[bzcat]

6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Hm. I guess it's better to say that C2 can't accommodate what they wanted to do with Explorer even if it could get to something that size.

 

Yes, I agree. They needed Explorer to be part of the longitude powertrain group so the decision to go RWD was made early.

 

If they needed Explorer to be part of the transverse powertrain group from an accounting standpoint, then it would have been a C2. 

 

What jason is referring to is the fact that after longitude powertrain decision was made, several models from CD6 was cut - e.g. Continental, possibly a Ford sedan, Mustang, so all of a sudden, the accounting burden fell pretty hard on Explorer. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by bzcat

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Some people are just hell bent on declaring the Explorer a disaster and for the life of me I can’t figure out why.

 

The launch of 2020 Explorer was unequivocally a disaster. The vehicle itself remains mediocre. Ford's quick response with pricing updates and emergency refresh of certain interior components for 2021 is a good sign though. It shows that Ford won't let the Explorer name be destroyed like so many other Ford models over the years.

Edited August 12, 2020 by rperez817

[FR739]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

When someone joins the forum and immediately makes 3 negative posts - yes.  But I will delete the city.

Can you please explain how posting information taken directly from Fords own releases is negative?  

[jpd80]

This year is going to be a write off as well because the sales of Explorer are going to be low again 

but for different reasons and the bad air from 2019 launch problems still lingers. Still, with subdued

sales, it's an opportunity to keep working on fixing any remaining build problems.

 

Last September, Ford had over 15,000 orders for Explorer PI and even in October, Ford was still sending

hundreds of PIs to FRAP for remedial work.

 

I'll be curious to see how the 21 Explorer reviews go, Ford obviously batching changes and we can only hope

that both the seen and unseen problems have been finally nailed.

Edited August 12, 2020 by jpd80

[Captainp4]

Not directly related to the Explorer, but is there any chance we'll see a CD6 sedan from Lincoln? I know the market is moving towards suv/cuv and all that, but a flagship rwd continental for Lincoln seems like it could make some money and make better use of the platform??

[tbone]

34 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

The launch of 2020 Explorer was unequivocally a disaster. The vehicle itself remains mediocre.

Yes, the launch was a disaster, however but the vehicle is far from mediocre. Do you own one, or have you spent any appreciable time in one? If not, I don’t see how you can fairly make that statement.  I certainly wouldn’t base it soley on what some reviewers have stated.  
 

For transparency, I own an ST, and I’m not trying to defend my purchase.  I can recognize some things I would like to be improved, but I can guarantee I could identify shortcomings with any vehicle. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

We do not know how profitable they are or are not. The fact is combining the Interceptor numbers in to retail numbers was done for a reason-because Ford purposely wanted to "cloud" the numbers.

No other vehicle reports police versions separately.  As far as I know Ford was the only one and now they’re not.  
 

Im not looking at the YOY 12% increase.  If you take 2q2018 that was combined 66k.  So the new one did 55K combined during a pandemic when almost everything else was down 20% and they increased retail percentage by 5 points and they did all of it with a subpar interior and prices that were too high.  Both of which have been mostly fixed.   Anyone who thinks that is failure doesn’t have a clue.

[akirby]

3 minutes ago, tbone said:

 I certainly wouldn’t base it soley on what some reviewers have stated.  

That’s all he knows how to do.  He believes everything he reads.

[akirby]

39 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Can you please explain how posting information taken directly from Fords own releases is negative?  

Maybe I overreacted due to all the other negatards.  But you certainly seem to be criticizing Explorer sales.  Look at my comparison to 2018 and tell me it’s not positive under the circumstances.

[jpd80]

Even with pandemic stoppages, CAP still managed to produce more Explorers and Aviators in June 2020 than it did last year

H1 production of Explorer was up about 13k compared to same time last year.

Edited August 12, 2020 by jpd80

[tbone]

3 minutes ago, akirby said:

That’s all he knows how to do.  He believes everything he reads.

As an aside, the ST resonates with my kids and their friends. We have had a lot of positive reaction to the vehicle.   That is a positive sign for attracting young people to the Explorer. 

[akirby]

That’s the thing to remember.  If not for Explorer Aviator wouldn’t exist.  And Aviator took a LOT of resources that could ave gone to Explorer if it was still tandalone.

[akirby]

Just now, tbone said:

As an aside, the ST resonates with my kids and their friends. We have had a lot of positive reaction to the vehicle.   That is a positive sign for attracting young people to the Explorer. 

I think the styling - which some people here hate - is appealing to younger buyers.

[tbone]

5 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think the styling - which some people here hate - is appealing to younger buyers.

Yes, I don’t get that hate as I think the new Explorer looks much more athletic and refined than the outgoing model. 

[jpd80]

16 minutes ago, akirby said:

That’s the thing to remember.  If not for Explorer Aviator wouldn’t exist.  And Aviator took a LOT of resources that could ave gone to Explorer if it was still tandalone.

Aviator also helps to amortize some of the costs away from Explorer carrying all of CD6 development.

Mulally refused to replace the slow selling MKT with an Aviator in 2011, instead opting for the easier

and far less costly Explorer Platinum.