2021 Explorer prices to be lowered.

[FR739]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

So imagine how Explorer would be selling if price matched to Telluride.

Yep that's right, selling more than Ford could make but, lots of profit walking out the door too.

That’s a bit too speculative.  We don’t know if lower prices will help the Explorer’s sales numbers and we don’t know if lots of profit would be walking out the door.  Perhaps they would be making more profit due to the higher volume.  

 

1 hour ago, kyle said:

 

A lot of this is tied to how strong and large Ford's dealer network is compared to Kia/Hyundai.  Have a friend who was looking at either a Land Rover or Audi and went out and bought the SX Telluride for maybe $1k over invoice and is thrilled. My coworker traded in her 5 series for a new SX also. 

I have some friends that are vehicle snobs who had two Audis (A3 and an A4) and they were looking to add a SUV to their garage.  They nearly pulled the trigger on a Telluride but with the offers and incentives they got from Audi they ended up with a Q5 for a couple thousand more than a Telluride.  
 

You’re right though, the Telluride has caught the eye of people who would generally spend time in the more premium brands.  

[akirby]

14 minutes ago, FR739 said:

That’s a bit too speculative.  We don’t know if lower prices will help the Explorer’s sales numbers and we don’t know if lots of profit would be walking out the door.  Perhaps they would be making more profit due to the higher volume. 

 

Significantly lower prices will almost always increase sales.   Just look at any mfr and as you go down the price scale volume goes up and vice versa.  Because more people can afford them so the market is larger and it gives you an advantage over the competition for those who are comparison shopping.

 

If you assume the Explorer is at a 5% net margin that's only $2000 on a $40K vehicle.   Reduce prices by $3K and you're losing money on every vehicle sold - volume would not matter.

 

You're correct that a small reduction in price that still maintains a decent profit margin might result in more profit from higher volume.   But Explorer would need a big reduction to compete with Telluride on price based on the discussions we had on this a few months ago and the price disparity.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir kyle. Ford's pricing adjustments and emergency refresh (though limited in scope) for 2021 Explorer represent a nice change of tune for the company. Ford's usual attitude to consumer and professional reviewer complaints is complete indifference and ignorance.

 

Ford executives finally realized they can't keep coasting on Explorer name recognition alone, or keep relying on "sheeple" customers getting a new Explorer just because it's a Ford.

Stop with this emergency refresh nonsense. It's not happening. 

[Bob Rosadini]

Where is the Telluride built?

[T-dubz]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Stop with this emergency refresh nonsense. It's not happening. 

Is he not referring to the updated interior trim that was shown off a week or two ago?

 

Edit: never mind, I think those were just trim pieces on the ST

Edited August 13, 2020 by T-dubz

[akirby]

29 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Where is the Telluride built?

West Point, Ga

[Bob Rosadini]

3 minutes ago, akirby said:

West Point, Ga

Thx- 

[rmc523]

23 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The launch of 2020 Explorer was unequivocally a disaster. The vehicle itself remains mediocre. Ford's quick response with pricing updates and emergency refresh of certain interior components for 2021 is a good sign though. It shows that Ford won't let the Explorer name be destroyed like so many other Ford models over the years.

 

It's not mediocre.

 

23 hours ago, jpd80 said:

This year is going to be a write off as well because the sales of Explorer are going to be low again 

but for different reasons and the bad air from 2019 launch problems still lingers. Still, with subdued

sales, it's an opportunity to keep working on fixing any remaining build problems.

 

Last September, Ford had over 15,000 orders for Explorer PI and even in October, Ford was still sending

hundreds of PIs to FRAP for remedial work.

 

I'll be curious to see how the 21 Explorer reviews go, Ford obviously batching changes and we can only hope

that both the seen and unseen problems have been finally nailed.

 

I doubt we'll see '21 reviews.

 

20 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

FR739, I've got a screenshot of his original response to you, before he went back in and modified it.  In case your attorney needs to see it,,,

 

HRG

 

lol, really?

 

19 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

If anything, looking at the tea leaves of the future, the best course of action would be to continue with the CD6 for the next decade or so, trying to improve it and profitability of it. 

 

I'm going to assume the replacement is going to be a large BEV vehicle in roughly 12-15 years from now. Hopefully we get at least 2-3 MCEs/minor refreshes in that time frame.  

 

Eh, I kind of feel like they'd want to get more out of the platform than just the two vehicles.

 

Plus, I hope we get more than the Fields approach of 2 MCEs over the course of 12 years.

 

55 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Is he not referring to the updated interior trim that was shown off a week or two ago?

 

Edit: never mind, I think those were just trim pieces on the ST

 

Yeah, the extent of it seems to be painting a panel silver instead of black, which qualifies as a panic emergency refresh to him lol.

[kyle]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Where is the Telluride built?

In West Point Georgia  about 100 miles southwest of Atlanta. The Palisade is made in Korea surprisingly. 

[rperez817]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

It's not mediocre.

2020 Explorer is an improvement over its predecessor, but falls far short of best in class. That fits the definition of mediocre pretty well.

 

me·di·o·cre | \ ˌmē-dē-ˈō-kər:  of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so

[Bob Rosadini]

10 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

2020 Explorer is an improvement over its predecessor, but falls far short of best in class. That fits the definition of mediocre pretty well.

 

me·di·o·cre | \ ˌmē-dē-ˈō-kər:  of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so

Interesting-and Savage Geese gave the Aviator rave reviews!  

[tbone]

44 minutes ago, kyle said:

In West Point Georgia  about 100 miles southwest of Atlanta. The Palisade is made in Korea surprisingly. 

Two reasons to buy the Telluride over the Pallisades if you are shopping the Koreans:

1. It looks significantly better. 
2. It’s at least made in the US. 

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, FR739 said:

That’s a bit too speculative.  We don’t know if lower prices will help the Explorer’s sales numbers and we don’t know if lots of profit would be walking out the door.  Perhaps they would be making more profit due to the higher volume.  

There's no perhaps about it and it's not speculation that strong incentives drive sales, that is a known fact

in the automotive universe. What is also equally known is that offering high incentives to attract buyers and

increase sales also forces up costs by increasing the number of builds to make the same revenue long before

a manufacturer gets to the same amount of profit achieved with fewer builds and higher prices.

 

The interesting point with Explorer is that while sales are lower than we've come to expect, the price difference

on it's mid and upper trims is up to $10,000 more than the comparable Telluride yet the Explorer still sells at

more than double the Telluride and easily retains sales lead in the segment (Traverse is next level up).

There is no doubt in my mind that strong incentives or aggressive pricing would lift Explorer sales

but as I've shown, Ford will not be doing that because it gives them less profit and more sales.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Interesting-and Savage Geese gave the Aviator rave reviews!  

TBF he's not the only one

[FR739]

4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Interesting-and Savage Geese gave the Aviator rave reviews!  

His Explorer review was a bit more critical...but the points he brought up are valid and overall his review is in line with many reviews of the Explorer.  

[akirby]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

His Explorer review was a bit more critical...but the points he brought up are valid and overall his review is in line with many reviews of the Explorer.  

Mostly fair criticisms but some things have been overblown.  And at least two have been addressed to some degree - high base prices and interior fit and finish.  Hopefully they’ve sorted out the ride and handling too.

 

I still think they put so many resources on Aviator that Explorer didn’t get properly finished.

[FordBuyer]

5 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Interesting-and Savage Geese gave the Aviator rave reviews!  

 

That guy from savage geese is a savage guy against Ford, especially the interiors. Savagely over the top. Recently, he was reviewing a 2003 Mustang Terminator, and while he loved driving the vehicle, he went over the top savaging the interior for 10 minutes. Like who had great interiors in 2003? I owned a 2001 Porsche Boxster that cost $50,000 when new, and the interior was forgettable. He did the same with a new Mustang GT 350 R. He loves the vehicle, but spent time criticizing the interior.

 

Then  I see him review the RAV 4 and marvel how the hard plastics are durable and therefore nice. He even said good things about the fake wood trim on the CRV. Go figure. He seems to know his stuff, but has a stick up his ass concerning Ford interiors.

[tbone]

18 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

That guy from savage geese is a savage guy against Ford, especially the interiors. Savagely over the top. Recently, he was reviewing a 2003 Mustang Terminator, and while he loved driving the vehicle, he went over the top savaging the interior for 10 minutes. Like who had great interiors in 2003? I owned a 2001 Porsche Boxster that cost $50,000 when new, and the interior was forgettable. He did the same with a new Mustang GT 350 R. He loves the vehicle, but spent time criticizing the interior.

 

Then  I see him review the RAV 4 and marvel how the hard plastics are durable and therefore nice. He even said good things about the fake wood trim on the CRV. Go figure. He seems to know his stuff, but has a stick up his ass concerning Ford interiors.

My in-laws are Toyota people. I can assure that Toyota interiors are no better than a Ford interior.  It’s unfortunate when bias is injected into reviews.  

[FR739]

20 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

That guy from savage geese is a savage guy against Ford, especially the interiors. Savagely over the top.

He was extremely positive on the Corsair and the Aviator.  He *really* liked both of them.  Perhaps the Navigator too?  I’m old and can’t remember.  
 

So he’s not against Ford.   I can’t remember if he reviewed the new Escape yet (I believe he has but again....I’m old).  If you watch his reviews he’s critical on a lot of interiors which I think is warranted.  That’s where you spend all your time and it should be a major focus of all manufacturers.  

[Bob Rosadini]

48 minutes ago, FR739 said:

He was extremely positive on the Corsair and the Aviator.  He *really* liked both of them.  Perhaps the Navigator too?  I’m old and can’t remember.  
 

So he’s not against Ford.   I can’t remember if he reviewed the new Escape yet (I believe he has but again....I’m old).  If you watch his reviews he’s critical on a lot of interiors which I think is warranted.  That’s where you spend all your time and it should be a major focus of all manufacturers.  

Hah-welcome to BON-and the fact that you are "OLD"?   So now there are two of us?

[jasonj80]

7 hours ago, tbone said:

Two reasons to buy the Telluride over the Pallisades if you are shopping the Koreans:

1. It looks significantly better. 
2. It’s at least made in the US. 

It is sad but people don’t care if it’s made in the United States, over 1/2 of GM vehicles sold in the United States are imported. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

He was extremely positive on the Corsair and the Aviator.  He *really* liked both of them.  Perhaps the Navigator too?  I’m old and can’t remember.  
 

So he’s not against Ford.   I can’t remember if he reviewed the new Escape yet (I believe he has but again....I’m old).  If you watch his reviews he’s critical on a lot of interiors which I think is warranted.  That’s where you spend all your time and it should be a major focus of all manufacturers.  

One of Mulally's virtues was making his VPs listen to quality issues, it's something that Ford is no doubt taking on board

but others have warned that Explorer's issues were inevitable with an all new platform launched under production pressure.

I expect that Ford has batched a ton of fixes in the MY21s but I doubt anyone will retest it and be open to forming a new opinion.

[tbone]

3 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

It is sad but people don’t care if it’s made in the United States, over 1/2 of GM vehicles sold in the United States are imported. 

Agreed. 

[jpd80]

4 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

It is sad but people don’t care if it’s made in the United States, over 1/2 of GM vehicles sold in the United States are imported. 

GM saw an opportunity and took it, I think Wallmart pretty much broke the made in America ethos with buyers.

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

One of Mulally's virtues was making his VPs listen to quality issues, it's something that Ford is no doubt taking on board

but others have warned that Explorer's issues were inevitable with an all new platform launched under production pressure.

I expect that Ford has batched a ton of fixes in the MY21s but I doubt anyone will retest it and be open to forming a new opinion.

It’s no going to matter.  People who see them and like them will buy them.  If bad reviews mattered the Camry wouldn’t have sold 450k/yr.