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2021 Explorer prices to be lowered.


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39 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Looking at 2020 sales numbers, Explorer sells 3X more vehicles than Mustang, yet you don't think that was worth protecting?  My guess is the ATP is higher on Explorer also.

 

HRG


Mustang was one vehicle, not two.  The platform was only a mild upgrade of the old one, not completely new.  There was no electrification involved (yet).  The factory didn’t have to be gutted and rebuilt.  Orders of magnitude simpler.  And Mustang is an Icon which has value beyond just sales like F150 and Bronco.

 

I honestly think the success of the F150 retooling in 2014 gave them a false sense of security that they could do the same in Chicago but they underestimated the complexity and factory issues including not being able to do a lot of pre production builds.

 

in Hindsight would they do it again?  I think they would because they nailed the Aviator itself and despite the criticism Explorer sales are good if not great.  I do think they would try to do a lot more pre production builds somewhere somehow and I think they would add at least an extra month to the retooling/launch timeline.  Maybe two more months if they’re not able to do preprod builds.  But I don’t see them delaying both vehicles for a year to get both perfect.

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Explorer/Aviator launch was the exception, many other launches went off without a hitch.


F150, Escape, Corsair, Ranger, new Superduty, Navigator, Expedition, Transit, Transit Connect, Ecosport, Edge/Nautilus (minor issues), etc etc

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

Bingo!  That’s how corporate decisions are made.  Rarely are the engineers and technical teams allowed to be almost perfect due to time, money and resource constraints.  They do it with Icons because the risk of screwing up is too high......

 

My dad was an engineer who worked at Ford for 30 years (Engine Design).  As he once told me, engineers are never satisfied.  They'll redesign a part over and over always trying to make it "better."  There always comes a time you have to say "done," and move on to the next project.

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3 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

My dad was an engineer who worked at Ford for 30 years (Engine Design).  As he once told me, engineers are never satisfied.  They'll redesign a part over and over always trying to make it "better."  There always comes a time you have to say "done," and move on to the next project.

 

As an engineer-turned-program-manager, my favorite quote is, "In order to complete a project, it is necessary to shoot all the engineers."

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9 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Think Hackett ever confronted such a scenario in his Steelcase or Athletic Director days?????

 

As I've said before, even a "civilian" like myself would have said...."we are building a completely new platform in a highly  automated facility that is likewise new and has never built a thing"!  "Go slow"!  


No he absolutely did not.  His lack of experience really showed. 
 

and you’re right about the go slow thing.  That’s exactly what they did with the 2007 Edge and it worked very well.  I was never a huge fan of Mulally but he got that right.  If it’s not ready, tell me why and what you need to make it right was his mindset. 

 

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Back in 2013, Ford was having huge problems with CD4 MKZ launch, enough things were different to Fusion (Mondeo sedan) to cause huge dramas with body work and trim. All the things that high value customers expect to be perfect.


Thanks!

 

8 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you for your post FR739 sir. I'm not convinced Ford has the combination of engineering & process expertise and proper executive decision making to pull off a flawless new product launch. If they did, why has almost every new or redesigned, mass produced Ford vehicle in recent memory been affected by cost, schedule, and/or quality issues upon initial launch?

 

I think the new Escape is evidence that they can.  The last two “all new” Escapes were plagued with issues and had an embarrassingly high amount of recalls.  The new one has seen none of that.  That’s one area they got right with the new Escape.  
 

8 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Looking at 2020 sales numbers, Explorer sells 3X more vehicles than Mustang, yet you don't think that was worth protecting?  My guess is the ATP is higher on Explorer also.

 

HRG

 
Part of me thinks that Ford only makes the Mustang because they feel they have to keep the name going.  I don’t think there really is a business case for it and I bet it makes little to no money as a program.  Although maybe it does now that it’s a world car 

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Surprisingly, Mustang is quite lucrative because more than 50% of domestic sales are higher series V8s

and international sales are just dominated by V8s save for maybe China and it's import capacity taxes.

 

 

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18 hours ago, akirby said:

in Hindsight would they do it again?  I think they would because they nailed the Aviator itself and despite the criticism Explorer sales are good if not great.  I do think they would try to do a lot more pre production builds somewhere somehow and I think they would add at least an extra month to the retooling/launch timeline.  Maybe two more months if they’re not able to do preprod builds.  But I don’t see them delaying both vehicles for a year to get both perfect.


I'm not so sure about that. They passed on the opportunity to do it with Ranger and they probably could speed up the Bronco launch but they’re being very deliberate with it. The Fiesta has been out of production for almost a year now and MME still hasn't began production yet. 
 

Seems they've learned a lesson. 

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18 hours ago, akirby said:


F150, Escape, Corsair, Ranger, new Superduty, Navigator, Expedition, Transit, Transit Connect, Ecosport, Edge/Nautilus (minor issues), etc etc


I think those minor issues with Edge/Nautilus are somehow platform related. They had similar issues with almost every other CD4 launch at other plants with exception of Continental. 

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18 hours ago, MadManMoon said:

 

As an engineer-turned-program-manager, my favorite quote is, "In order to complete a project, it is necessary to shoot all the engineers."


As a line worker, I 1000% agree with this. In order to successfully build a car on an assembly line you must get the engineers the hell off the floor. 

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9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Surprisingly, Mustang is quite lucrative because more than 50% of domestic sales are higher series V8s

and international sales are just dominated by V8s save for maybe China and it's import capacity taxes.

 

 


When you look at how many they sell internationally though, it's only about 3k quarterly in Europe 

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Or look at it this way, 2019 sales of Mustang was over 100,000, the USA was 72,489 of those.

 


Over 100K?  Yeah it probably makes a little money then.  Isn’t it going to the Explorer platform for the next gen?  If so that should really help to bring costs down.  It’s probably a pretty safe bet that the most expensive component to any vehicle is the platform it’s on.  If you can share that a lot of money is saved. 

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15 minutes ago, FR739 said:


Over 100K?  Yeah it probably makes a little money then.  Isn’t it going to the Explorer platform for the next gen?  If so that should really help to bring costs down.  It’s probably a pretty safe bet that the most expensive component to any vehicle is the platform it’s on.  If you can share that a lot of money is saved. 

 

The Next Gen Mustang most likely will be a deep refreshing of the current platform sharing wiring harnesses and whatnot with the CD6 or C2. Power trains shared with other Ford RWD products outside of the Niche stuff. 

 

I'd expect the actual next gen Mustang to be a BEV Stakeboard shared with the Mach E. 

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On 8/13/2020 at 10:18 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

If that is in fact the case, I think American companies-and Ford in particular should think about some flag waving-if nothing else for the sake of our grandkids.  I recognize it is a world economy but shouldn't American firms do what they can do to beat the drum?

 

I do what I can to "buy American"..and I'm not talking about such bullshit as ..."Designed in the USA-Made in China" .  I have been a long time reader of "Wood" magazine.  They frequently have reviews on wood working tools/machines.  Latest issue covered 8 large floor standing drill presses.  They always list country of origin.  Seven of the eight made in China.  One in Taiwan.  Years ago you would see a variety- US, EU-Germany, Italy, UK etc, Japan, etc.  No longer the case.

 

Sorry for straying from the topic.


I’m with you Bob. Ford has  massive Americans manufacturing footprint, which they should do a better job of telling fellow Americans about.  Will they care, hard to say, but maybe they would.  
 

And I too despise “Designed in the USA-Made in China,” as if that is supposed to validate your offshoring. 
 

As Ray Zalinsky said:

  "I make car parts for the American working man, because that's what I am, and that's who I care about."
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2 hours ago, tbone said:


I’m with you Bob. Ford has  massive Americans manufacturing footprint, which they should do a better job of telling fellow Americans about.  Will they care, hard to say, but maybe they would.  
 

And I too despise “Designed in the USA-Made in China,” as if that is supposed to validate your offshoring. 
 

As Ray Zalinsky said:

  "I make car parts for the American working man, because that's what I am, and that's who I care about."


If people cared about supporting American workers they wouldn’t be shopping at WalMart.

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6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I'm not so sure about that. They passed on the opportunity to do it with Ranger and they probably could speed up the Bronco launch but they’re being very deliberate with it. The Fiesta has been out of production for almost a year now and MME still hasn't began production yet. 
 

Seems they've learned a lesson. 


It depends on the situation.  With Ranger and Bronco there is no existing production or sales to worry about.  Same for Mach-e and Bronco Sport.  Much easier to do.

 

With Escape and Corsair it was the same situation as Explorer but no issues.  Maybe this really is a CAP issue.

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15 minutes ago, akirby said:


It depends on the situation.  With Ranger and Bronco there is no existing production or sales to worry about.  Same for Mach-e and Bronco Sport.  Much easier to do.

 

With Escape and Corsair it was the same situation as Explorer but no issues.  Maybe this really is a CAP issue.


Ah but they were able to tool up Hermosillo for Bronco Sport production while Fusion and MKZ wrapped up. 
 

We're probably reading way more into this than we need to, I really think it truly is a CAP issue. That plant has been a shit show for decades. They can do a fast retool at a plant like DTP or KCAP that has their shit together any time they want. They should have known better than to try it at CAP but I also understand their hands were a bit tied with the whole situation. 

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The Next Gen Mustang most likely will be a deep refreshing of the current platform sharing wiring harnesses and whatnot with the CD6 or C2. Power trains shared with other Ford RWD products outside of the Niche stuff. 

 

I'd expect the actual next gen Mustang to be a BEV Stakeboard shared with the Mach E. 


From what I understand the NG Mustang will be kind of a hybrid of CD6 and C2. It was supposed to originally be a CD6 program but that was changed due to cost. This will be where we truly see the modular capabilities of these new platforms and why the company is calling them Architectures. 

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


If people cared about supporting American workers they wouldn’t be shopping at WalMart.

 

 

 

I have no doubts if Geely (or any other Chinese auto manufacturer) started selling cars here-if they were priced right (much lower than people could buy a comparable "American" model). IMHO-that would have to be about $10,000.00.  

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38 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

I have no doubts if Geely (or any other Chinese auto manufacturer) started selling cars here-if they were priced right (much lower than people could buy a comparable "American" model). IMHO-that would have to be about $10,000.00.  

 

Well heck, the made in China Buick Envision is already out-selling the made in US Lincoln Corsair, in the same market segment.

 

HRG

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6 hours ago, akirby said:


It depends on the situation.  With Ranger and Bronco there is no existing production or sales to worry about.  Same for Mach-e and Bronco Sport.  Much easier to do.

 

With Escape and Corsair it was the same situation as Explorer but no issues.  Maybe this really is a CAP issue.

I live in Chicagoland, it’s probably a CAP issue?

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11 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The Next Gen Mustang most likely will be a deep refreshing of the current platform sharing wiring harnesses and whatnot with the CD6 or C2. Power trains shared with other Ford RWD products outside of the Niche stuff. 

 

I'd expect the actual next gen Mustang to be a BEV Stakeboard shared with the Mach E. 

Absolutely, you can almost see it coming after buyers have had their fill of the current gen Mustang and hybrids.

Once conventional ICE is done, it's actually easier to use a skateboard BEV to develop better ICE hybrids and PHEVs.

 

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