Edge/Nautilus production ending?

[jpd80]

18 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Hmm, interesting.

Yeah, something kept under wraps because the shape was problematic and not the Velar Ford was hoping for

I think the big ace for Edge/Nautilus has to be hybrid and PHEV, as well as using whatever weight savings C2 brings

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by jpd80

[Trader 10]

49 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

 

I think the big ace for Edge/Nautilus has to be hybrid and PHEV, as well as using whatever weight savings C2 brings

 

 

I agree although Ford hasn’t delivered on the hybrids (regarding volume). It’s almost impossible to find a hybrid Escape or Explorer and it looks like the F150 hybrid volume will be rather low. Talk of an electric vehicle replacing the Edge seems silly, there just isn’t the potential demand  there (yet) to do so, especially with the Mustang Mach-E to compete against. Edge is one of Ford’s biggest selling models.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, Trader 10 said:

 

I agree although Ford hasn’t delivered on the hybrids (regarding volume). It’s almost impossible to find a hybrid Escape or Explorer and it looks like the F150 hybrid volume will be rather low. Talk of an electric vehicle replacing the Edge seems silly, there just isn’t the potential demand  there (yet) to do so, especially with the Mustang Mach-E to compete against. Edge is one of Ford’s biggest selling models.

From the time it first arrived, the Edge has existed as the vehicle between Explorer and Escape.

Back then, some were quick to dismiss it as a fail and something taking sales away from Explorer

but time has proven it's worth as a two-row utility with prices closer to Explorer than Escape.

Adding hybrid and PHEVs might be a master stroke with Bronco about to be a huge hit,

I see it as Ford offering the equivalent of different sales channels within the one brand

 

I'm not convinced that the sales depth of BEVs will be as great as Ford thinks,

this wouldn't be the first time Ford has jumped on the bandwagon thinking that

there's big profits in new tech bit I see them offering only high series BEVs.

Edited August 21, 2020 by jpd80

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

From the time it first arrived, the Edge has existed as the vehicle between Explorer and Escape.

Back then, some were quick to dismiss it as a fail and something taking sales away from Explorer

but time has proven it's worth as a two-row utility with prices closer to Explorer than Escape.

Adding hybrid and PHEVs might be a master stroke with Bronco about to be a huge hit,

I see it as Ford offering the equivalent of different sales channels within the one brand

 

I'm not convinced that the sales depth of BEVs will be as great as Ford thinks,

this wouldn't be the first time Ford has jumped on the bandwagon thinking that

there's big profits in new tech bit I see them offering only high series BEVs.

 

I was surprised Edge/MKX/Nautilus didn't get a Hybird (and maybe PHEV) with their move to CD4.

[PREMiERdrum]

13 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I was surprised Edge/MKX/Nautilus didn't get a Hybird (and maybe PHEV) with their move to CD4.

They were supposed to. For a minute. 

 

Embrace the future. 

 

The OG Edge was transformational for the brand in terms of average owner demographic and perception. The next one could be... moreso.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I was surprised Edge/MKX/Nautilus didn't get a Hybird (and maybe PHEV) with their move to CD4.

CD4 was built off the bones of European EUCD, battery storage in the cars was a bit of an afterthought

and I suspect it was deemed  not practical in the utilities in Nth America or the S-Max/ Galaxy in Europe.

Could you imagine the impact of Fusion/Taurus remade on C2 with better hybrid PHEV battery storage.....

Edited August 22, 2020 by jpd80

[Trader 10]

7 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

They were supposed to. For a minute. 

 

Embrace the future. 

 

The OG Edge was transformational for the brand in terms of average owner demographic and perception. The next one could be... moreso.

 

Any fresh news regarding Fusion Active?

[PREMiERdrum]

2 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

 

Any fresh news regarding Fusion Active?

Still coming, and relatively soon.

 

Scheduled to come *late* next year as a '22 model, but there is one factor at play that could push it out a year.

[sullynd]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

CD4 was built off the bones of European EUCD, battery storage in the cars was a bit of an afterthought

and I suspect it was deemed  not practical in the utilities in Nth America or the S-Max/ Galaxy in Europe.

Could you imagine the impact of Fusion/Taurus remade on C2 with better hybrid PHEV battery storage.....

Are you sure there’s much difference? EUCD and C2 are both progeny of C1. 

[ehaase]

4 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Still coming, and relatively soon.

 

Scheduled to come *late* next year as a '22 model, but there is one factor at play that could push it out a year.

Some say "Fusion Active" is Europe only to replace Mondeo.  How certain are you it will be produced for North America?

[PREMiERdrum]

17 minutes ago, ehaase said:

Some say "Fusion Active" is Europe only to replace Mondeo.  How certain are you it will be produced for North America?

 

Certain, though it will likely simply be called "Fusion" here when it launches.

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Still coming, and relatively soon.

 

Scheduled to come *late* next year as a '22 model, but there is one factor at play that could push it out a year.

 
Let me guess

 

COVID? 

[ausrutherford]

51 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 
Let me guess

 

COVID? 

 

My guess is what we are taking about here. If Unifor agrees to a good deal, they get the Fusion. 

[rmc523]

15 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

They were supposed to. For a minute. 

 

Embrace the future. 

 

The OG Edge was transformational for the brand in terms of average owner demographic and perception. The next one could be... moreso.

hmmm.  Very interesting comments...

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, sullynd said:

Are you sure there’s much difference? EUCD and C2 are both progeny of C1. 

If there wasn't much difference, they'd all be just be called C1.

The original intent with EUCD was to develop a platform for larger vehicles that were beyond the range of C1

but to retain common powertrain and electrical systems as well as build sequence and supplier chain.

The US took lead on developing CD4 from EUCD, they added more steel to the crash protection zone,

added a new virtual link IRS and AWD, V6 and EB V6, moving the powertrain and electrical systems further

away from C1.

 

C2 is all about evolving C1 to include more light weighting and advances in technology, space efficient design

provision of hybrid battery storage, all with the flexibility of architecture to cover larger vehicles up to Mondeo

and Edge. No doubt that engineering modules from CD4 have been included/reworked to make the increased

product envelope possible.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, ehaase said:

Some say "Fusion Active" is Europe only to replace Mondeo.  How certain are you it will be produced for North America?

By " some" you mean borg?

His reasoning is based on no Intel to support continuation of Fusion production a Hermosillo

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If there wasn't much difference, they'd all be just be called C1.

The original intent with EUCD was to develop a platform for larger vehicles that were beyond the range of C1

but to retain common powertrain and electrical systems as well as build sequence and supplier chain.

The US took lead on developing CD4 from EUCD, they added more steel to the crash protection zone,

added a new virtual link IRS and AWD, V6 and EB V6, moving the powertrain and electrical systems further

away from C1.

 

C2 is all about evolving C1 to include more light weighting and advances in technology, space efficient design

provision of hybrid battery storage, all with the flexibility of architecture to cover larger vehicles up to Mondeo

and Edge. No doubt that engineering modules from CD4 have been included/reworked to make the increased

product envelope possible.

That's exactly why they were able to tool up Hermosillo for Bronco Sport while Fusion/MKZ was still going. Think of C2 as more of an evolution of CD4 than a brand new architecture. 

[jpd80]

14 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That's exactly why they were able to tool up Hermosillo for Bronco Sport while Fusion/MKZ was still going. Think of C2 as more of an evolution of CD4 than a brand new architecture. 

even before that, Valencia was or still is  building C1, C2 and CD4 products together.

They're all close cousins but the standard build sequence makes that possible as it

was at Oakville with D4 Flex, CD3S Edge and CD4 Edge, and FRAP Mustang, Continental.

 

BTW,

Reports of aluminum panels on Bronco vs steel in current Ranger,

does this mean different body assembly areas for each at MAP?

Edited August 22, 2020 by jpd80

[ausrutherford]

9 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

even before that, Valencia was or still is  building C1, C2 and CD4 products together.

They're all close cousins but the standard build sequence makes that possible as it

was at Oakville with D4 Flex, CD3S Edge and CD4 Edge, and FRAP Mustang, Continental.

 

BTW,

Reports of aluminum panels on Bronco vs steel in current Ranger,

does this mean different body assembly areas for each at MAP?

 

Not completely on subject to your question, but if it is the case, it would only be temporary.

 

Next Ranger has been rumored to have aluminum body.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how the aluminum body will be received globally. A body shop in Nigeria might have a harder time with it than one in Kansas...

[jpd80]

2 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Not completely on subject to your question, but if it is the case, it would only be temporary.

 

Next Ranger has been rumored to have aluminum body.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how the aluminum body will be received globally. A body shop in Nigeria might have a harder time with it than one in Kansas...

Global gets NG Ranger next year, North America, is CY22

[fuzzymoomoo]

43 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

 

BTW,

Reports of aluminum panels on Bronco vs steel in current Ranger,

does this mean different body assembly areas for each at MAP?

Nope. All of the outer panels bolt on, Everything under it is steel. All it means for us is the aluminum stamping is done elsewhere because our press room doesn't have the capability to stamp aluminum parts. We do build the hood, door and swing gate assemblies though. We don't build any aluminum parts for Ranger (yet), those all come from vendors. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Nope. All of the outer panels bolt on, Everything under it is steel. All it means for us is the aluminum stamping is done elsewhere because our press room doesn't have the capability to stamp aluminum parts. We do build the hood, door and swing gate assemblies though. We don't build any aluminum parts for Ranger (yet), those all come from vendors. 

Ah yes thank you, I thought that might be the case.

[silvrsvt]

Reading the tea leaves from what has been said in between the line here-

 

Ford is coming out with a midsizer BEV CUV in the next 24 months that is supposed to go into OHAP...which is currently building BOF vans, which seems like an odd fit, but they did do unibody products in the form of Minivans at one point in time.

 

The Fusion Wagon is coming in the next 18 months or less and will be apparently built in Hemosillo, but will be competing against the Transit Connect, Bronco Sport and Maverick for production space.

 

The CD4 Edge/Nautilus was supposed to get  refresh but it got pushed back for some reason, fueling rumors of it being cancelled and going out of production in 2024.

 

So this leads me to this:

 

If UNIFOR contracts go Ford's way, this is what will happen, IMO:

The Fusion Active/Wagon replaces Flex/MKT Production at Oakville. Makes it easier to import into EU/China

 

The BEV Mid Sizers are actually the next Gen Edge/Nautilus and move to Oakville and OHAP was just a cover story and they get some sort of BEV Van product actually (which they might be getting anyways)

 

Heromsillo just has three products that roughly work out to at least 280-300K units a year and leaves enough headroom if the Maverick and Bronco Sport sell more then 100K units per year. 

 

 

[akirby]

Except there is a next gen edge/nautilus that is different from the BEVs.

[ausrutherford]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Reading the tea leaves from what has been said in between the line here-

 

Ford is coming out with a midsizer BEV CUV in the next 24 months that is supposed to go into OHAP...which is currently building BOF vans, which seems like an odd fit, but they did do unibody products in the form of Minivans at one point in time.

 

The Fusion Wagon is coming in the next 18 months or less and will be apparently built in Hemosillo, but will be competing against the Transit Connect, Bronco Sport and Maverick for production space.

 

The CD4 Edge/Nautilus was supposed to get  refresh but it got pushed back for some reason, fueling rumors of it being cancelled and going out of production in 2024.

 

So this leads me to this:

 

If UNIFOR contracts go Ford's way, this is what will happen, IMO:

The Fusion Active/Wagon replaces Flex/MKT Production at Oakville. Makes it easier to import into EU/China

 

The BEV Mid Sizers are actually the next Gen Edge/Nautilus and move to Oakville and OHAP was just a cover story and they get some sort of BEV Van product actually (which they might be getting anyways)

 

Heromsillo just has three products that roughly work out to at least 280-300K units a year and leaves enough headroom if the Maverick and Bronco Sport sell more then 100K units per year. 

 

 

 

If they move the BEVs to Canada from OHAP, then they will have to appease the UAW with something else at the plant since it was included within their last contract.