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Did Ford make a mistake killing its sedans?


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52 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 It just goes to show that sedan buyers are mostly value conscious.

 

Which also means they aren't necessarily brand loyal (although a lot of Camcord buyers are) and will jump to whichever one is cheapest at the time, which is where Nissan and the Koreans have been feasting.

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20 minutes ago, Kranger84 said:

I suspect in 5 years or so you will see the return of the Fusion/Focus with heavy focus on BEV and maybe a hybrid.

 

It's possible - by that time they will have launched all of the new models and converted all of the unibody FWD factories to C2.  But they'll probably be special models - wagons/hatchbacks/etc. to fill in excess production capacity.   I don't think there will be a business case to build a new factory just for Fusion/Focus.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

 

It's possible - by that time they will have launched all of the new models and converted all of the unibody FWD factories to C2.  But they'll probably be special models - wagons/hatchbacks/etc. to fill in excess production capacity.   I don't think there will be a business case to build a new factory just for Fusion/Focus.

 

In about a year or two, we will know if Ford and Lincoln miss having a sedan in their lineup. Maybe a 4 dr Mustang like Porsche does with the 4dr 911 called the Panamera. Add another model to the Mustang brand. Looks to me like Ford aims to expand the F-Series, Bronco, Mustang lineup. 

 

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4 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

In about a year or two, we will know if Ford and Lincoln miss having a sedan in their lineup. Maybe a 4 dr Mustang like Porsche does with the 4dr 911 called the Panamera. Add another model to the Mustang brand. Looks to me like Ford aims to expand the F-Series, Bronco, Mustang lineup. 

 


I could see a 4 door Mustang before a Fusion sedan because it could be done on CD6 and share a lot with the mustang coupe and be built at a Flat Rock.  It would be high performance and lower volume with little direct competition.  And it fits the sub brand theme and higher margins.

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3 hours ago, akirby said:


I could see a 4 door Mustang before a Fusion sedan because it could be done on CD6 and share a lot with the mustang coupe and be built at a Flat Rock.  It would be high performance and lower volume with little direct competition.  And it fits the sub brand theme and higher margins.

A RWD sedan could be done as extension of Mustang with some help from CD6, essentially, just graft a Fusion / Taurus rear to a Mustang  front with less engine set back.

 

it sounds complicated but isn’t really....

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A RWD sedan could be done as extension of Mustang with some help from CD6, essentially, just graft a Fusion / Taurus rear to a Mustang  front with less engine set back.

 

it sounds complicated but isn’t really....


I have wondered whether or not Ford is actually working on that now as we talk about this. This could perhaps count as one of the 'derivatives' to be produced at FR alongside the S650 Mustang as part of the recent union agreement. I'm all for expanding the Mustang into a subbrand as long as they add the second word to the name as part of the name to show that it's the additional member of the subbrand while the Mustang (one word) stays the true 2+2 rear drive coupe/convertible that's been around for 55+ years now. Ford has already done this with Mustang Mach-E for the electric-powered crossover. The Mach-E is not the trimline of the Mustang but rather the two words as part of one name shows that it's a separate vehicle that is Mustang-inspired. I won't be surprised if there will be an ICE version of the Mach-E but with name something like Mustang Mach-G for Gas-powered engines (I know it's not good name but I'll use it here as placeholder for now).

This sedan you mention could either be Falcon so that it could be sold in other places as Australia or another Mustang variant with a different secondary name to it. I'm thinking Mustang Fairlane as an example. Then take the upcoming S650 2-door Mustang but turn it into a sporty rear drive pickup where the rear seat and trunk is an open bed and call it Mustang Ranchero. Let's not forget an exotic rear-mid-engined version of Mustang too which would make a good replacement for the Ford GT when that eventually ends production. Have a rear-mid-engined car styled like Mustang so that it's recognizable as Mustang but engine in back and make it much more affordable than the GT but yet competitive with the new Corvette. Ford would have an advantage with this because it's a subbrand of Mustang and yet the rear engined car would be recognized as Mustang-inspired instead of a Ferrari-lookalike as the Corvette is. Not sure what it could be named but I'm sure Ford can go back into the archives to find a good name for it. They did experiment with that in 1967 with Mustang Mach 2 so perhaps that name can be used. Recently, there were articles published about a 1969 Mustang E which was a 6-cylinder engine tuned for fuel efficiency. Interesting that the E naming was carried over to the Mustang Mach-E naming as continuing the efficiency of driving range. So I'm sure they can dig into archives for good names to be used for the additional members of the Mustang subbrand.

In the meantime, the 2-door Mustang for the S650 and further on can continue in coupe and convertible form. They can even bring back the hatchback last used on the Fox Body era or even introduce a true 'shooting brake' wagon of the 2-door. Ford did experiment with this a nice looking 2-door wagon in 1965 but was rejected. Maybe even consider the 'Active' version for each member of the Mustang family including even the 2-door one with a slight lift but with sporty proportions and offering of all wheel drive with basic off roading capability like gravel and dirt. The other variants like the sedan and crossover/SUV can even be designed to do basic towing as well to offer customers more capability. The ideas are endless but just have to be careful with how they name it. They got it right so far with the Mustang and Mustang Mach-E so let's see how they do it with the other variants.

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1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

They certainly are losing passenger car police cruiser sales to Dodge!!

 

Not a high volume or very profitable market anyway.  Last I knew, the Police Interceptor SUV was the top selling Police Vehicle. Ford is also the only manufacturer to offer a Pursuit Rated truck. The Ecoboost version of the SUV actually outperformed the Hemi Charger in Michigan testing.  Cost is the primary factor for most agencies though, and the Chargers are cheap!

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Shelby American products have been on display throughout FL dealerships this past week, and I find one Shelby product rather interesting. Joe Raiti reviewed it yesterday. It's a Shelby Mustang 2 seat roadster a la Speedster fame. Looks pretty cool and has over 700hp. The Shelby products on display are all over You Tube as Raiti's Rides are reviewing them one at a time.

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21 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

The biggest mistake that Ford made was announcing a couple of years ahead of time that these cars were going to be "orphans".  Anyone with any marketing sense would have just "eased into it".

 

It was the union that let this one out of the bag, not Ford. Ford knew better.

 

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26 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

The biggest mistake that Ford made was announcing a couple of years ahead of time that these cars were going to be "orphans".  Anyone with any marketing sense would have just "eased into it".

And to a certain extent, retiring them (Fiesta, Focus, Fusion) before having 'replacement' at the dealerships. It seems that only the Ranger is out now. In the US. Elsewhere, there is nothing on the lots. That might explain constant sales decrease in international markets.

Edited by passis
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19 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

The biggest mistake that Ford made was announcing a couple of years ahead of time that these cars were going to be "orphans".  Anyone with any marketing sense would have just "eased into it".

IMO biggest argument in support of your statement is that I would think Ford's annoncement gave FCA a "green light" to correct the POS Charger that I do believe had a bad record at that point.  "Competition is going away?-good let's go after that market"

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4 minutes ago, passis said:

And to a certain extent, retiring them (Fiesta, Focus, Fusion) before having 'replacement' at the dealerships. It seems that only the Ranger is out now. In the US. Elsewhere, there is nothing new on the lots.

 

Uh the Escape and Explorer are only about a year old since they came out. 

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30 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Uh the Escape and Explorer are only about a year old since they came out. 

But they replace older generations of the same vehicles, not Fiesta/Focus/Fusion, that's what I meant as replacement for the cars. In a weird but comprehensible way, Ranger replaced somehow the Focus.  

In other markets, where the Ranger was already available, we only see cars being abandoned - period.

Edited by passis
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47 minutes ago, passis said:

That might explain constant sales decrease in international markets.


They never cancelled Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo in other markets.  Only NA.  And they’re probably making more profit not building them at this point Y also had to retool the factory and as we saw in Chicago it’s best not to rush it if possible.

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3 hours ago, akirby said:


They never cancelled Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo in other markets.  Only NA.  And they’re probably making more profit not building them at this point Y also had to retool the factory and as we saw in Chicago it’s best not to rush it if possible.

 

All those cars are canceled in South America too because they were getting them from Mexico.

 

Ford also stopped selling Fiesta in Asia Pacific without replacement.

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43 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

All those cars are canceled in South America too because they were getting them from Mexico.

 

Ford also stopped selling Fiesta in Asia Pacific without replacement.

 

I think they would have cancelled South America regardless, but point taken on Fiesta in AP.   But they are still selling all of them in Europe and Focus everywhere else.  It's not like they killed them completely.  I guess you could make the same argument for Taurus in China.

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Actually, Ford pulled Focus from Africa, South America and Middle East and most of Asia as well. There are more places where Ford used to sell Focus than there are currently selling, let's put it that way. 

 

Edited by bzcat
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10 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Interestingly enough, there are still a few out here in Indiana with the State Police!  Commercial Vehicle Division still has some out on the road and They are still being used as pool cars for when the Chargers break down.  Heard from the Post I used to work at, that they have had to ditch the Chargers as pool cars because they are junk! 

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2 hours ago, danglin said:

 

Interestingly enough, there are still a few out here in Indiana with the State Police!  Commercial Vehicle Division still has some out on the road and They are still being used as pool cars for when the Chargers break down.  Heard from the Post I used to work at, that they have had to ditch the Chargers as pool cars because they are junk! 

And plenty still on the road here with town departments.  I think Mass SP is  virtually all Explorer PI'S with  a mixed bag of unmarked vehicles.  

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