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Did Ford make a mistake killing its sedans?


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54 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

No, I totally get that they're two different markets, but if you see on an ice cream sandwich on a menu that also has a sundae, a good percentage of people will get the "impulse" to buy the more fun item. There are plenty of people who didn't make their minds up before they went to the dealership or look at offerings on line.

 

I had a 99 Mercury Sable in 2005 and was planning on getting a Five Hundred to replace it, but that 2005 Mustang spoke very loudly to me...  Two totally different markets, but I chose the more calories that day...

 

If they never made a Bronco sport, Ford fans may have walked out with an Escape, but now it is coming, so that will flip the script, and bring in people who never were interested in the Escape to begin with. 


Agree but the point I was trying to make is people might see an Escape on tv or on the road and think - hey I like that I should go look at it.  And they’ll probably do some cross shopping.   
 

Whereas a lot of people will see the Bronco Sport and decide immediately that they need one just based on looks and image (and maybe the Bronco name and trim names).  Just like that Mustang.  I had the same reaction to the 2013 Porsche Boxster.  I’m getting one and I’m not cross shopping anything.  It creates an emotional attraction and that drives sales without discounts.

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25 minutes ago, akirby said:

Whereas a lot of people will see the Bronco Sport and decide immediately that they need one just based on looks and image (and maybe the Bronco name and trim names).  Just like that Mustang.  I had the same reaction to the 2013 Porsche Boxster.  I’m getting one and I’m not cross shopping anything.  It creates an emotional attraction and that drives sales without discounts.

 

I agree.  We've been shopping for a new vehicle since early this year and had pretty much decided on a PHEV Escape.  Until I got a look at the new Broncos.  Instant emotional attraction.  The both of us said, "we want one!"  The question now is Bronco Sport or wait for a 2-door Bronco.    

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9 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But at the same time, I wondering why Ford surrendered development of a product they sold I'm guessing at least 150K plus worldwide to a competitor that is profitable to them and is part of your core product group. 

 

The only other thing I can think of is they think the Maverick, worldwide, would make a better replacement (profitability wise) then the Transit Connect would be. 

It's simple economics, Transit Connect is the least profitable of the Transit commercial vans and outsourcing

TC to VW at fixed price allows Ford to free up or eliminate  those development and manufacturing resources.

 

The Maverick pickup would seem to be a better use of resources while retaining TC via VW.

I'm hoping that Jim Farley reveals more details on Ford's Mexican products.

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13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It's simple economics, Transit Connect is the least profitable of the Transit commercial vans and outsourcing

TC to VW at fixed price allows Ford to free up or eliminate  those development and manufacturing resources.

 

The Maverick pickup would seem to be a better use of resources while retaining TC via VW.

I'm hoping that Jim Farley reveals more details on Ford's Mexican products.

 

I would naturally think the Transit Courier is the least profitable given they built a new plant just for it.

 

However, it is built in Turkey with much lower costs compared to Spain...so there is that. 

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27 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

I would naturally think the Transit Courier is the least profitable given they built a new plant just for it.

 

However, it is built in Turkey with much lower costs compared to Spain...so there is that. 

 

Correction... Transit Connect production was moved from Turkey to Valencia, Spain several years ago. 

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On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 2:11 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:


Too much political BS involved with exporting from Turkey these days, that's why it was moved 5 years ago. 

not just that...there was an adheisive they used in the transit connects that could only be described as smelling like a Camels outhouse....

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8 hours ago, Deanh said:

not just that...there was an adheisive they used in the transit connects that could only be described as smelling like a Camels outhouse....

Do tell, there has to be an anecdote......." Why does my van stink like sh**?"

Edited by jpd80
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  • 4 weeks later...

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but maybe one reason sedan sales are falling is because they the same old, same old. The original Taurus debuted 35 years ago, and all the mid-size sedans on the market today are just an evolution of it.

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7 minutes ago, AGR said:

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but maybe one reason sedan sales are falling is because they the same old, same old. The original Taurus debuted 35 years ago, and all the mid-size sedans on the market today are just an evolution of it.


How do you explain Camry and Accord which are as updated as you can get?

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40 minutes ago, AGR said:

The Accord and Camry are the very definition of same old, same old.


There is only so much you can do to a sedan and keep it a sedan.  Accord and Camry are the best at cosmetic refreshes.  But you seem to have already convinced yourself so whatever.

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Oh for God's sake, you're the guy who keeps haranguing people who don't toe the line on the "cars are dead" talking points. Now when someone thinks of another reason why sales may be declining(in addition to all the others that have been discussed ad nauseum), and you want to argue with that. 

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3 hours ago, AGR said:

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but maybe one reason sedan sales are falling is because they the same old, same old. The original Taurus debuted 35 years ago, and all the mid-size sedans on the market today are just an evolution of it.

 

Good points AGR sir, but aren't modern day crossovers an evolution of the AMC Eagle that came out over 40 years ago? The current batch of crossovers represent the "same old, same old" too. None of them are truly distinctive.

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2 hours ago, AGR said:

Oh for God's sake, you're the guy who keeps haranguing people who don't toe the line on the "cars are dead" talking points. Now when someone thinks of another reason why sales may be declining(in addition to all the others that have been discussed ad nauseum), and you want to argue with that. 


I never said cars are dead.  I said the market is overcrowded and shrinking and there isn’t much profit to be had.  
 

Buyers are moving to crossovers, SUVs and pickups because of utility, more choices and negligible difference in fuel costs.  Camcord in particular has kept their styling fresh but that didn’t stop the sales slide for them.

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GM felt the branch crack under cars when it paid for heavily refreshed Cruze and Malibu only to see sales keep sliding, Ford weren’t going to do the same thing - hard I know considering my previous suggestions of Focus and Mondeo in ROW but Ford  saw eliminating US cars as a way of refining its business.

 

And for those angry with that decision, it was Ford’s to make, understanding that is the first step In recognising that ford lives and dies by its own decisions, not us.

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21 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good points AGR sir, but aren't modern day crossovers an evolution of the AMC Eagle that came out over 40 years ago? The current batch of crossovers represent the "same old, same old" too. None of them are truly distinctive.

 

The crossovers' ancestors are the Japanese "tall wagons" of the 1980s, not the AMC Eagle. This includes the Toyota Tercel Wagon, Honda Civic Wagon, Nissan Stanza Wagon/Axxess, and Mitsubishi err Dodge Colt Vista. The Civic Wagon in particular shares many styling cues with the original CR-V.

Edited by AGR
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1 hour ago, AGR said:

 

The crossovers' ancestors are the Japanese "tall wagons" of the 1980s, not the AMC Eagle. This includes the Toyota Tercel Wagon, Honda Civic Wagon, Nissan Stanza Wagon/Axxess, and Mitsubishi err Dodge Colt Vista. The Civic Wagon in particular shares many styling cues with the original CR-V.


Your the first person to ever mention that. The problem with your hypothesis is none of them offered AWD. 

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40 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

All of the vehicles AGR mentioned offered all wheel drive. AGR's hypothesis is a good one.

My memory is fading, but I'm thinking the AMC Eagle beat the AWD versions of these vehicles by a few years.  Plus the Eagle was a true raised crossover from an existing platform.  I believe the Autotrader article above is correct on this one...

Edited by CoolScoop
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10 hours ago, CoolScoop said:

My memory is fading, but I'm thinking the AMC Eagle beat the AWD versions of these vehicles by a few years.  Plus the Eagle was a true raised crossover from an existing platform.  I believe the Autotrader article above is correct on this one...

 

 

The AMC Eagle came out in 1980, so yes it beat the Japanese imports stated above.

 

Not to mention they are just 4WD wagons...more of a Suburu genesis then a true CUV. 

 

Edited by silvrsvt
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5 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Not to mention they are just 4WD wagons...more of a Suburu genesis then a true CUV.  

 

The only thing that separates "4WD wagon" from a "true CUV" at least in the subcompact and compact categories is that "true CUV" has uglier, tacked on styling. 

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9 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

The only thing that separates "4WD wagon" from a "true CUV" at least in the subcompact and compact categories is that "true CUV" has uglier, tacked on styling. 


CUVs have higher ground clearance, higher seating and is taller than an AWD wagon.

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