fuzzymoomoo Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Wait, 3 year contract yet retooling doesn't start until 2024? That's weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 ? That could all change, it’s Ford after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 So Edge and Nautilus soldier on as lame duck models until 2024? If a 3 year deal these investments are not made until the contract is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Wait, 3 year contract yet retooling doesn't start until 2024? That's weird It is weird kinda BS to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) Kind of what I suspected... there is no replacement for Edge per se in North America. Oakville gets to keep making the lame duck Edge until the next generation of EVs are ready. Good news for Oakville: it will be an EV plant. Bad news for Oakville: 2024 is a long ways away. So things are starting to fall into place... Ohio gets the new midsize MME based midsize CUV. Oakville will get in on the fun on next gen products, which we don't even know about yet. Edited September 22, 2020 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Nautilus is freshened for 2021MY with new interior, then redesigned for 2024MY with next gen being built in China and imported to the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTL2017 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said: Nautilus is freshened for 2021MY with new interior, then redesigned for 2024MY with next gen being built in China and imported to the US. So that means the Oakville Plant could have a Ford and a a Lincoln EV by 2024? I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Actually 2024 isn’t that far away from a product development standpoint, product short of cancellation is locked in and hard points on that product is all locked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 I will still be disgusted if Ford imports vehicles from China. Don’t see what this China love affair is about. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, JTL2017 said: So that means the Oakville Plant could have a Ford and a a Lincoln EV by 2024? I could be wrong. Ford promised 5 EVs so some of them are likely to be Lincoln. Just spit balling here... two of them are probably large EVs - this is why Ford backed off the Rivian based Lincoln. They are going to make a large Explorer sized CUV for Ford and Lincoln at Oakville. 4 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: Actually 2024 isn’t that far away from a product development standpoint, product short of cancellation is locked in and hard points on that product is all locked in. It takes minimum 36 months to go from concept drawings to prototypes so if retooling starts in 2024, that means these EVs are still in development phase. Also, Ford is not going to produce 5 EVs from the get go in 2025. Some of them will stagger in later. So only 1 or 2 out of the 5 are in development now. The rest are still just ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, bzcat said: Ford promised 5 EVs so some of them are likely to be Lincoln. Just spit balling here... two of them are probably large EVs - this is why Ford backed off the Rivian based Lincoln. They are going to make a large Explorer sized CUV for Ford and Lincoln at Oakville. It takes minimum 36 months to go from concept drawings to prototypes so if retooling starts in 2024, that means these EVs are still in development phase. Also, Ford is not going to produce 5 EVs from the get go in 2025. Some of them will stagger in later. So only 1 or 2 out of the 5 are in development now. The rest are still just ideas. Do you think this is a good deal for Oakville??? I don’t know why but I’m skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) What about this bullet point: Quote Oakville will assemble batteries, creating 300 jobs Someone with more knowledge than me needs to comment, but this sounds exactly like the added employment that Ford have attributed to the Rouge addition that will build batteries for the BEV F150 (along with building the BEV once the body exits the existing plant). This makes me wonder if perhaps OAC is becoming essentially Ford's second battery assembly facility (alongside Rouge). I just don't know how significant this point is. Edited September 22, 2020 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Do you think this is a good deal for Oakville??? I don’t know why but I’m skeptical. With Canada being a leading country in the fight against global warming, this deal makes a lot of sense. Canada and Ontario especially want to be a leader in BEV vehicles and put a lot of money into this deal. Kudos to Canada making Oakville a center for fighting climate change. Somebody has to take leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: With Canada being a leading country in the fight against global warming, this deal makes a lot of sense. Canada and Ontario especially want to be a leader in BEV vehicles and put a lot of money into this deal. Kudos to Canada making Oakville a center for fighting climate change. Somebody has to take leadership. Does Canada have the natural resources needed for BEV high voltage batteries? Being able to source the minerals and keep transport in country would seem to be an attractive proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Do you think this is a good deal for Oakville??? I don’t know why but I’m skeptical. Long term yes. Very good because you guys will be building EVs, without which there is no future. You also got the support of Canadian and Ontario Govt which are always good too. UAW doesn't enjoy that kind of support south of the border. Short term, I think you guys got some bumpy road ahead. I don't know if Ford can really make the Edge and Nautilus last until 2025. Buyer interest is going to really drop off when these cars age beyond 7 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, bzcat said: Long term yes. Very good because you guys will be building EVs, without which there is no future. You also got the support of Canadian and Ontario Govt which are always good too. UAW doesn't enjoy that kind of support south of the border. Short term, I think you guys got some bumpy road ahead. I don't know if Ford can really make the Edge and Nautilus last until 2025. Buyer interest is going to really drop off when these cars age beyond 7 years. I would have to agree, they will slightly refresh the interiors and maybe some exterior updates then ride it out til 2024. Then massive overhaul of factory will begin. I was stunned to hear the amount the government wants to invest. They’ve never ponied up 500 million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) As we've seen before, Ford likes to count every trim level of electrified vehicles as a separate vehicle to get the count up and they like using the term electrified vehicle to include hybrids and PHEVs. Like others here, I'm concerned that this plan doesn't begin happening for at least another four years, normally Ford is loathed to discuss new products so far away from delivery yet they see fit to do so as a negotiating strategy for this contract.....I will be interested to see the linkage in production between now and when these new products are planned to arrive. Its encouraging to see Ford talking long term investment in Canada and I hope Ford sticks to its plan. Edited September 22, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Does Canada have the natural resources needed for BEV high voltage batteries? Being able to source the minerals and keep transport in country would seem to be an attractive proposition. Canada is extremely resource rich, I don’t see how this country would lack the natural resources needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: With Canada being a leading country in the fight against global warming, this deal makes a lot of sense. Canada and Ontario especially want to be a leader in BEV vehicles and put a lot of money into this deal. Kudos to Canada making Oakville a center for fighting climate change. Somebody has to take leadership. Well I hope everything goes as planned because electrification means job losses too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 30 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Does Canada have the natural resources needed for BEV high voltage batteries? Being able to source the minerals and keep transport in country would seem to be an attractive proposition. In the article, it states that Canada does have the minerals like cobalt to make batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Ford promised 5 EVs so some of them are likely to be Lincoln. Just spit balling here... two of them are probably large EVs - this is why Ford backed off the Rivian based Lincoln. They are going to make a large Explorer sized CUV for Ford and Lincoln at Oakville. It takes minimum 36 months to go from concept drawings to prototypes so if retooling starts in 2024, that means these EVs are still in development phase. Also, Ford is not going to produce 5 EVs from the get go in 2025. Some of them will stagger in later. So only 1 or 2 out of the 5 are in development now. The rest are still just ideas. If you look at your timeline, that means the first of those vehicles is only starting development now Or early next year for a prototype to begins field testing in late 2023/ early 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I too am surprised this is so far out and that these products weren't being worked on already. Though I guess you don't plan something without having the place to make them lined up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I too am surprised this is so far out and that these products weren't being worked on already. Though I guess you don't plan something without having the place to make them lined up. Is this Jim Farley hitting the go button on products that maybe Jim Hackett wasn't prepared to do on his watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, bzcat said: It takes minimum 36 months to go from concept drawings to prototypes so if retooling starts in 2024, that means these EVs are still in development phase. BZ, is it possible that the use of a skateboard chassis negates some of the time element of a "traditional" development cycle, and consequently these vehicles could be ready sooner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: BZ, is it possible that the use of a skateboard chassis negates some of the time element of a "traditional" development cycle, and consequently these vehicles could be ready sooner? You're back tongue body on frame argument but the answer is still the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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