silvrsvt Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: Well, perhaps the bigger advantage of the skateboard is that it is designed from the get-go to accommodate batteries, so you don't wind up with cases like the Fusion energi hybrids that had the giant chunk taken out of the trunk for batteries. You can obviously design an ICE platform to account for batteries too, but usually not the amount you need for a full EV without compromises. I think its using the front and rear suspension of the C2 going by this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) Just for the record, most skateboard designs that I'm aware of use a perimeter frame, like the dear departed panther You can see MME/ EV C-Max's C2 roots above when it was to be a compliance vehicle for mostly Europe, a lot of changes were made, lengthening the wheelbase to 117" meant redevelopment of crash protection zone change to top hat and inclusion of stronger motors and heavier wiring for a more performance oriented vehicle Edited September 26, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 I wish we had the Puma. After all the C-HR seems to sell decently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) Toyota CHR - 49k Honda HRV - 99k Ford Ecosport - 65k Kia Soul - 98k Buick Encore - 102k Nissan Kicks - 58k Jeep Renegade - 77k Chevrolet Trax - 117k Is it worth it for ford to bring the puma here? Above are the sales figures for what I would assume would be its main competitors from 2019. Looks to be about 70-80k units on average. Is that enough for them to make a profit? if you go up in size a bit, things get a little better. jeep compass - 144k hyundai Tucson - 138k subaru cross trek - 131k these are smaller than compacts like escape, rav4 and crv, but larger than the other subcompacts. The bronco sport will also be similar in size to these. I would think this is the size range you’d want to be in. Edited September 27, 2020 by T-dubz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 A subcompact Utility like Puma falls into the " nice to have but not essential" category and truth to tell, all those compact utility sales that are less than say, $30k probably cover production and development costs but maybe not much in the way of profit. I think that's the case for a lot of nameplates that people just assume are profitable when in fact, they're break even and just something for dealers to service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 8 hours ago, jpd80 said: A subcompact Utility like Puma falls into the " nice to have but not essential" category and truth to tell, all those compact utility sales that are less than say, $30k probably cover production and development costs but maybe not much in the way of profit. I think that's the case for a lot of nameplates that people just assume are profitable when in fact, they're break even and just something for dealers to service. Yep. I recently saw an article showing the Ecosport has $7k in incentives on it now. How can a vehicle that starts at $20k have so much in incentives and still make a profit? https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ford-ecosport-discount-drops-price-by-up-to-7000-in-september-2020/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, T-dubz said: Yep. I recently saw an article showing the Ecosport has $7k in incentives on it now. How can a vehicle that starts at $20k have so much in incentives and still make a profit? https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ford-ecosport-discount-drops-price-by-up-to-7000-in-september-2020/ Because they are top trim models (SES and Ti models) that list at almost 30k? the lower end models don’t have any incentives/or only 2k and cost about the same (~22-23k). The exchange rate between the Indian Rupiah and the USD means that a entry level Ecosport is only $11k in India. So obviously there is a way Ford is at least breaking even on them. Edited September 27, 2020 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 5 hours ago, T-dubz said: Yep. I recently saw an article showing the Ecosport has $7k in incentives on it now. How can a vehicle that starts at $20k have so much in incentives and still make a profit? https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ford-ecosport-discount-drops-price-by-up-to-7000-in-september-2020/ And there no changes to the 2021 Ecosport other than two new colors and an appearance package. Still no emergency braking and no upgrades to the drivetrain. Getting kind of embarassing now. Fusion gone and still producing this uncompetitive no profit small cuv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 17 hours ago, jpd80 said: A subcompact Utility like Puma falls into the " nice to have but not essential" category and truth to tell, all those compact utility sales that are less than say, $30k probably cover production and development costs but maybe not much in the way of profit. I think that's the case for a lot of nameplates that people just assume are profitable when in fact, they're break even and just something for dealers to service. Puma development was done cheaply. It's basically the Fiesta Activ under the skin. Same engine bay and everything. I think they did this not just because it was cheaper...but for the Fiesta was originally suppose to move to Romania with it and the German plant shut. However, the union gave in to a deal and saved the German plant. If Ford saved the Fiesta equipment in Mexico, the Puma would be an "easier" product to start production conceivably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 11 hours ago, FordBuyer said: And there no changes to the 2021 Ecosport other than two new colors and an appearance package. Still no emergency braking and no upgrades to the drivetrain. Getting kind of embarassing now. Fusion gone and still producing this uncompetitive no profit small cuv. At most, were talking about 6,600 SE Ecosports, imported from India. A trifling amount when there's still over 19,000 Fusions still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, jpd80 said: At most, were talking about 6,600 SE Ecosports, imported from India. A trifling amount when there's still over 19,000 Fusions still available. Ford's Vehicle Locator shows 34,833 Fusions still in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 51 minutes ago, ice-capades said: Ford's Vehicle Locator shows 34,833 Fusions still in stock. Correct, there's more for sure as the numbers I mentioned are stock at dealerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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