Trailhiker Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said: Escape debuting a bit earlier led to a great deal of kvetching about it being too soft, rounded, car-like, etc. I told you it would make sense. Once they give the Escape a decent looking front end, I agree, it will make sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 I couldn't agree more. The new Escape has such milquetoast front end, I couldn't buy one. I'd have to go for a Bronco Sport for sure, or Corsair. Now the Chinese front end, I could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 The cross shopping of escape to a bronc is utter comical in belief....few ads by heep in making the comparison surely would be funny as hell.....i bet ford marking is pulling fist full size hair from the scalp at this point....go ahead and run your comparison...be sure and add in how well the explorer is also "bronc like".....psychosis has set in for the ford lot salesmen and owners.....ford is the new over 60 buyers lot..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, snooter said: The cross shopping of escape to a bronc is utter comical in belief.... Bronco Sport not Bronco. Step away from the firewater..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, akirby said: Bronco Sport not Bronco. Step away from the firewater..... Don't feed the troll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 7 hours ago, atomcat68 said: I started in 2000, then somehow I lost my password and had to start a new account and I just added the 68 at the end. I remember the Hemisbc guy (ChryslerChryslerChrysler) and the Jellymold guy who always brought in the Cortina into EVERY thread. He went over to GM Inside News and goes by the name Oldsmobile stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Trailhiker said: Escape is not much cheaper. Sport starts at $26.6K comes standard with 4X4 and terrain management. The cheapest Escape with AWD starts at $26K Escape is overpriced in my opinion and apparently ford thinks so too based off of the almost 4K in incentives it’s had pretty much since it came out, but I was mainly referring to the Baby jeeps. 4 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said: Remember that Bronco Sport and Escape were *designed* to be on the lot together. Escape debuting a bit earlier led to a great deal of kvetching about it being too soft, rounded, car-like, etc. I told you it would make sense. A customer visiting the lot to look at an Escape who leaves in a Bronco Sport - or vice versa - is far better than a customer coming to look at one and leaving with nothing. Their lineup is finally based on a *portfolio* strategy. It. Will. Pay. Off. Bigly. I like the idea, I don’t like the execution. I personally would have liked it if they (escape and sport) were the same size, offered the same features, and were the same price. The only difference would be different interior and exterior styling. the way it is now, I can’t get what I want with either vehicle. I’m more likely to go to another vehicle then settle for either. I think it can be fixed though. We’ve seen from the fusion render in the other thread that the escape face can look good with some tweaks. The rear and body of the escape aren’t bad. I’d guess it will be very easy for Ford to add the escapes features to the sport too. I think both offerings will be much more compelling after their refresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, T-dubz said: Escape is overpriced in my opinion and apparently ford thinks so too based off of the almost 4K in incentives it’s had pretty much since it came out, but I was mainly referring to the Baby jeeps. I like the idea, I don’t like the execution. I personally would have liked it if they (escape and sport) were the same size, offered the same features, and were the same price. The only difference would be different interior and exterior styling. the way it is now, I can’t get what I want with either vehicle. I’m more likely to go to another vehicle then settle for either. I think it can be fixed though. We’ve seen from the fusion render in the other thread that the escape face can look good with some tweaks. The rear and body of the escape aren’t bad. I’d guess it will be very easy for Ford to add the escapes features to the sport too. I think both offerings will be much more compelling after their refresh. Bottom line is that Ford's intel on what buyers want is still sketchy until they put something out there, the preoccupation with packaging and bundling of options gives Ford real cost savings but limits the scope of buyer flexibility.....I am surprised that there's no hybrid Bronco Sport, actually shocked that it wasn't included as part of the mall cruiser mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said: Remember that Bronco Sport and Escape were *designed* to be on the lot together. Escape debuting a bit earlier led to a great deal of kvetching about it being too soft, rounded, car-like, etc. I told you it would make sense. A customer visiting the lot to look at an Escape who leaves in a Bronco Sport - or vice versa - is far better than a customer coming to look at one and leaving with nothing. Their lineup is finally based on a *portfolio* strategy. It. Will. Pay. Off. Bigly. Under Mulally, that was seen as unnecessary duplication but as we now see, one Ford only gets you so far, North America is where the real money is made and it deserves to have more if its own vehicles. The other part sorely missing is a C2 Edge/ Nautilus hybrid & PHEV combination but given the cost blowout with the CD6 choice, I completely understand the change back to affordability takes time. Edited October 2, 2020 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 You got to wonder if Ford is looking to add on to MAP to see if they can get more production out of it. The plant will get even busier in years to come with the all-new Ranger and Bronco Truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, ausrutherford said: You got to wonder if Ford is looking to add on to MAP to see if they can get more production out of it. The plant will get even busier in years to come with the all-new Ranger and Bronco Truck. Probably wouldn't really do any good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 There is a third shift option if things get really busy but maybe logistics with parts supply and delivery becomes an issue when driving plants so hard. Extra shifts on weekends is probably preferred to get over short term backlogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: Under Mulally, that was seen as unnecessary duplication but as we now see, one Ford only gets you so far, North America is where the real money is made and it deserves to have more if its own vehicles. The other part sorely missing is a C2 Edge/ Nautilus hybrid & PHEV combination but given the cost blowout with the CD6 choice, I completely understand the change back to affordability takes time. The Escape and Bronco almost seem to similar and yet too different at the same time. Unless the Escape is much cheaper to build and can be sold at a lower price, and thus aimed at completely different customers.. I would almost say to scrap the current escape underbelly and go all in with the bronco sport guts. Put the Escape body onto the more capable Sport drivetrain and you have a much more complimentary brother/sister set of vehicles with less part variety to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, probowler said: The Escape and Bronco almost seem to similar and yet too different at the same time. Unless the Escape is much cheaper to build and can be sold at a lower price, and thus aimed at completely different customers.. I would almost say to scrap the current escape underbelly and go all in with the bronco sport guts. Put the Escape body onto the more capable Sport drivetrain and you have a much more complimentary brother/sister set of vehicles with less part variety to worry about. The drive trains are virtually the same, rear torque vectoring is achieved on Badlands by applying right or left side brakes. The Escape comes from European Kuga, Bronco Sport is an American development and reminds us of the Original Escape. Some kind of suspect that originally, BS was going to be new Escape and Escape would revert to Euro Kuga name. Edited October 3, 2020 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 16 hours ago, snooter said: The cross shopping of escape to a bronc is utter comical in belief....few ads by heep in making the comparison surely would be funny as hell.....i bet ford marking is pulling fist full size hair from the scalp at this point....go ahead and run your comparison...be sure and add in how well the explorer is also "bronc like".....psychosis has set in for the ford lot salesmen and owners.....ford is the new over 60 buyers lot..... Its time for your meds...again, cuckoo puff.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: Some kind of suspect that originally, BS was going to be new Escape and Escape would revert to Euro Kuga name. The search function on this site sucks and I can't find the product code, but I believe the Short C Crossover that was reported 3-4 years ago is what the Bronco Sport became. From what Bzcat has stated, the program mutated because lack of buy in from the EU and CN for a premium small CUV and they did there own thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: The search function on this site sucks and I can't find the product code, but I believe the Short C Crossover that was reported 3-4 years ago is what the Bronco Sport became. From what Bzcat has stated, the program mutated because lack of buy in from the EU and CN for a premium small CUV and they did there own thing. Vignale was considered their premium trim but more important for Europe were subcompact Fiesta and new Puma over any short C. A case could made that Ford Europe's data was a little out of date as more could be done for products out of there for global markets. Edited October 3, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 hours ago, jpd80 said: Vignale was considered their premium trim but more important for Europe were subcompact Fiesta and new Puma over any short C. A case could made that Ford Europe's data was a little out of date as more could be done for products out of there for global markets. I think it would be "easy" for Europe to adopt the Bronco Sport if they changed their mind since it has the Escape/Kuga as its base. Bronco would be a lot harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 8 hours ago, ausrutherford said: I think it would be "easy" for Europe to adopt the Bronco Sport if they changed their mind since it has the Escape/Kuga as its base. Bronco would be a lot harder. No but they will have access to next gen Everest...if they want it that is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, jpd80 said: No but they will have access to next gen Everest...if they want it that is.... I could see them adding production to ZA for it...unless the Amarok space needed locks it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, ausrutherford said: I could see them adding production to ZA for it...unless the Amarok space needed locks it out. That could be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, jpd80 said: The drive trains are virtually the same, rear torque vectoring is achieved on Badlands by applying right or left side brakes. The Escape comes from European Kuga, Bronco Sport is an American development and reminds us of the Original Escape. Some kind of suspect that originally, BS was going to be new Escape and Escape would revert to Euro Kuga name. Interesting. I thought the Bronco Sport supposedly has a much more rugged 4x4 system than just torque vectoring? A while back someone posted a diagram of the ford portfolio; Escape was all the way on the left and the BS was waaaaay on the right under "rugged" I took that to mean it was focusing on capability versus simply looking the part.... and there would be a much bigger difference between the two. Edited October 4, 2020 by probowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, probowler said: Interesting. I thought the Bronco Sport supposedly has a much more rugged 4x4 system than just torque vectoring? A while back someone posted a diagram of the ford portfolio; Escape was all the way on the left and the BS was waaaaay on the right under "rugged" I took that to mean it was focusing on capability versus simply looking the part.... and there would be a much bigger difference between the two. They're both on the same C2 platform so the driveline and suspension are all very similar to each other, Remembering that Bronco's Sport is a compact add on to the mid-sized T6 Bronco with real off-road cred. Like a lot of Wranglers, a lot of these Bronco sports probably won't see many dirt roads, maybe some winter slush and what not but be under no illusion that most will be buying them for the chunky looks, not their abilities. Bronco Sport will still be a good "light off-road" performer which is all most buyers will ever expect. Edited October 4, 2020 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 9 hours ago, jpd80 said: They're both on the same C2 platform so the driveline and suspension are all very similar to each other, Remembering that Bronco's Sport is a compact add on to the mid-sized T6 Bronco with real off-road cred. Like a lot of Wranglers, a lot of these Bronco sports probably won't see many dirt roads, maybe some winter slush and what not but be under no illusion that most will be buying them for the chunky looks, not their abilities. Bronco Sport will still be a good "light off-road" performer which is all most buyers will ever expect. I would say that Bronco Sport is aimed more at Renegade and Cherokee than at Wrangler.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 7 hours ago, twintornados said: I would say that Bronco Sport is aimed more at Renegade and Cherokee than at Wrangler.... Renegade is a subcompact that starts $2k lower but in the realm of cross shopping and that's why I included the Wrangler 2-door that's not much more expensive.. The Cherokee is similar size but more like Escape with its sloped hatchback, so I'm thinking that the Bronco Sport seems to be a model falling smack in the middle of Jeep's smaller vehicles. That is not a coincidence...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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