As Farley's tenure begins, Ford focuses on growth, improved execution, faster transformations

[7Mary3]

4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Sarcasm intended right?? If so well said....I think to TT's point, as I've said before, what is Farley's definition of "commercial vehicles".  My fear is a "5 tonne" is the max of that definition.

 

I'm not suggesting Ford should be going after all facets of class 8, but for sure commercial should include class 6,7 and areas within 8. It doesn't take too much to cover uses in class 8 with a lot of components that are suited for 6 and 7.  And increased rail utilization will increase as bridge constraints prohibiting double stack containers get reduced making shorter hauls from the intermodal yards a higher percentage of class 8 traffic- and you don't need a 600 HP double bunk "Hi Rise"  to do that.

 

Not really.  I have a bad feeling Farley thinks 'commercial' doesn't really need to go much further than the F-150 and Transit.  

[Bob Rosadini]

26 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Not really.  I have a bad feeling Farley thinks 'commercial' doesn't really need to go much further than the F-150 and Transit.  

F-150 is the definition of "commercial"?  Maybe if "commercial" is a handyman with a "back rack".  If you really believe that is Farley's mindset, he is not  tuned in to what dealers have on their lots.  At least around here try to find a 150 "work truck" on a dealer lot.  As I see it they are all grocery getters or nice weekend leisure  trucks- pull the camper, pull the boat etc.

 

Transit, another story -at least when I look at the "Prime" logos I see running around here-unfortunately they are FCA products but I do believe Amazon has bought their share of transits?

 

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

F-150 is the definition of "commercial"?  Maybe if "commercial" is a handyman with a "back rack".  If you really believe that is Farley's mindset, he is not  tuned in to what dealers have on their lots.  At least around here try to find a 150 "work truck" on a dealer lot.  As I see it they are all grocery getters or nice weekend leisure  trucks- pull the camper, pull the boat etc.

 

Transit, another story -at least when I look at the "Prime" logos I see running around here-unfortunately they are FCA products but I do believe Amazon has bought their share of transits?

 

 

The VAST majority of the Amazon vans are ProMasters because FCA practically gives them away. 

[FordBuyer]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:26 AM, bdegrand said:

Just read in Auto News article that Canadian supplier Magna International is the backup camera supplier! Magna Electronics, a unit of Canadian auto supplier Magna International Inc., is the parts manufacturer listed on the NHTSA document.

They average 12 million cameras annually and recently built a $50 million dollar plant near Flint, Mixhigan!

I've heard that it's a bad electrical connection. Seems that way as my backup camera is different everytime I back up. Sometimes the screen is very dark, sometimes garbled, and sometimes perfect. Recall begins November 7 supposedly. I will try to get mine replaced when I take it in for oil change assuming they have the part.

[FordBuyer]

3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The VAST majority of the Amazon vans are ProMasters because FCA practically gives them away. 

You expect Amazon to pay for anything? They pay ZERO in taxes as they put brick and mortar retail out of business and create abandoned malls nationwide. 

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The VAST majority of the Amazon vans are ProMasters because FCA practically gives them away. 

So I've heard-just saying that is a huge market for Transit type vehicles-and I have to say- I think Amazon has done more to destroy the little guy than any other factor in this country.  Unless you want to throw Harbor Freight into the mix on a much smaller scale.  Proud to say I've never set foot in one.

 

 

[jpd80]

On 10/3/2020 at 4:24 AM, rmc523 said:

 

There was talk of it getting sliders, but obviously that didn't happen, and you're correct, it was essentially a rebodied Freestyle/Taurus X.

Cast your mind back to the Ford Fairmont concept, that's where the Flex came from.

In order to keep true to the "Hamptons" feel of the original concept, sliders were not permitted.

I've always maintained that the square body Flex should have been used as the Lincoln town car replacement

and the curvier MKT reworked as a Ford, like a big Edge.....maybe an "E" name or just Fairmont

 

[ausrutherford]

2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

You expect Amazon to pay for anything? They pay ZERO in taxes as they put brick and mortar retail out of business and create abandoned malls nationwide. 

 

Malls were dying before Amazon ever came to the forefront.

 

I idea that an automative-based location that is a dead zone when the businesses are closed was a 40-year fad. That is why many are closing, redeveloping as downtown-like city centers with residential and office uses, or struggling to make ends meet hoping the other malls in the area can allow them to survive.

 

Where would you rather shop?

 

A downtown:

 

Or a dumpy mall with plastic trees:

 

The answer is obvious.

Edited October 4, 2020 by ausrutherford

[sullynd]

If Amazon were to pay more in taxes, where would the money come from?  The answer isn’t Amazon. 

[AGR]

13 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Malls were dying before Amazon ever came to the forefront.

 

I idea that an automative-based location that is a dead zone when the businesses are closed was a 40-year fad. That is why many are closing, redeveloping as downtown-like city centers with residential and office uses, or struggling to make ends meet hoping the other malls in the area can allow them to survive.

 

Where would you rather shop?

 

A downtown:

 

Or a dumpy mall with plastic trees:

 

 

The answer is obvious.

 

Depends on where you live and what time of year you're talking about. January in Minneapolis or July in Houston? Give me the climate controlled mall. And then there's the availability and cost of parking.

 

[Bob Rosadini]

29 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Malls were dying before Amazon ever came to the forefront.

 

I idea that an automative-based location that is a dead zone when the businesses are closed was a 40-year fad. That is why many are closing, redeveloping as downtown-like city centers with residential and office uses, or struggling to make ends meet hoping the other malls in the area can allow them to survive.

 

Where would you rather shop?

 

A downtown:

 

Or a dumpy mall with plastic trees:

 

The answer is obvious.

Uh in February?

 

And I would think a big factor in a lot of mall failures is the loss of the anchor tenants.   How many are  bankrupt or close to it.

[probowler]

11 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Not really necessary. The back doors are huge.

I disagree. When I imagine hauling a bunch of kids, it's not about needing a huge opening but rather not wanting the risk of doors being kicked and pulled open fast and hitting parked cars.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, sullynd said:

If Amazon were to pay more in taxes, where would the money come from?  The answer isn’t Amazon. 

People don’t understand that businesses don’t pay taxes.  Consumers pay business taxes.

 

But too many people just don’t like business owners making money and want to punish them and redistribute income.

[jpd80]

55 minutes ago, akirby said:

People don’t understand that businesses don’t pay taxes.  Consumers pay business taxes.

 

But too many people just don’t like business owners making money and want to punish them and redistribute income.

Bingo.

You see this happening with governments around the world now deciding that Amazon or Google should pay tax or  for news content

Seriously, I have never seen a dumber idea than trying to charge or tax the likes of Amazon or Google, they'll just kill the internet

and turn it into a bad  online version of pay tv.

Edited October 4, 2020 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 hours ago, probowler said:

I disagree. When I imagine hauling a bunch of kids, it's not about needing a huge opening but rather not wanting the risk of doors being kicked and pulled open fast and hitting parked cars.

I have 3 of them and don't seem to have a problem with it, but what would I know, I've only owned a Flex for about a year....

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

People don’t understand that businesses don’t pay taxes.  Consumers pay business taxes.

 

But too many people just don’t like business owners making money and want to punish them and redistribute income.

Really though, nobody wants to pay taxes. We all go through that game every year of finding the biggest deductions to pay as little as possible. Not to make it political but that's why I don't understand all of these people giving the president a hard time about it, he's not doing anything that you or I wouldn't do, he just has the luxury of having much smarter and better tax accountants to do it for him than what you and I can afford. 

[jpd80]

12 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Really though, nobody wants to pay taxes. We all go through that game every year of finding the biggest deductions to pay as little as possible. Not to make it political but that's why I don't understand all of these people giving the president a hard time about it, he's not doing anything that you or I wouldn't do, he just has the luxury of having much smarter and better tax accountants to do it for him than what you and I can afford. 

They're calling him out instead of the tax laws that permit this.

[Harley Lover]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Cast your mind back to the Ford Fairmont concept, that's where the Flex came from.

 

Fairlane.

[jpd80]

11 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Fairlane.

I'm 2 for 2

Not only was I wrong but it had already been discussed on the previous page of the thread,

with a picture no less.....

Edited October 4, 2020 by jpd80

[Gurgeh]

20 hours ago, ice-capades said:

GM, Ford need electric-car batteries, but take different paths to get them

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/gm-ford-need-electric-car-batteries-but-take-different-paths-to-get-them

"Batteries are one of an electric vehicle's most expensive components, accounting for between a quarter and a third of the car's value. Driving down their cost is key to profitability, executives say. But whereas the internal combustion engine traditionally has been engineered and built by auto makers themselves, battery production for electric cars is dominated by Asian electronics and chemical firms, such as LG Chem Ltd. and Panasonic Corp., and newcomers like China's Contemporary Amperex Technology Co."

 

There are good arguments for each of the different directions GM/Ford are making in doing JV investment in dedicated factories vs. purchasing from suppliers who do their own R&D and plant investment, at least at this stage of battery development. The first approach would help ensure a dedicated and more predictable supply, whereas the latter would lower the upfront investment costs and allow quicker transition to new battery technologies at the risk of supply issues complicating new product launches. Going the third-party supply route for batteries and motors, however, may accelerate the trend of turning the automaker into more of a end-product designer and systems integrator than manufacturer, with most of the components of the vehicle supplied by others. 

[jpd80]

14 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Not really.  I have a bad feeling Farley thinks 'commercial' doesn't really need to go much further than the F-150 and Transit.  

Here's the thing we must all understand, in recent months, Ford has averaged 73,000 F Series a month.

That figure applying to the sale of classes 2 to 5 and is broken down approximately

F150.......49,000

F250.......11,000

F350........5,800

F450........2,700

F550........4,500

 

Class 6 and 7 is  barely 1500 sales....

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by jpd80

[ausrutherford]

Ford has been quietly expanding its global commercial business over the past few years. Most of us just do not realize it for we live in the US though the Ranger did help here.

 

Global Ranger sales more than doubled when they launched the T6. Some nation's sales tripled or quadrupled.

 

Ford Trucks is expanding in Europe by offering the Cargo and F-Max in Eastern Europe and select Western nations as well.

 

JMC now offers rebadged versions of the Cargo and F-Max in China.

 

_______________

 

Now let's compare that to another company trying to expand it's commercial sales...and failing:

 

 

[silvrsvt]

11 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

And I would think a big factor in a lot of mall failures is the loss of the anchor tenants.   How many are  bankrupt or close to it.

 

The bigger issue in the US at least is commercial overdevelopment in some areas. 

Just as an example, I live 5 minutes from two major corridors in NJ...on the one, we have three Targets within a 15-20 minute drive of one another. The one where we are located is the smallest of the three. We also have four home depots with in 30 minutes of one another, and yet again, the one closest to me is the smallest (assuming to population density in the area...but we have roughly 1.2 million people between the two counties I live/live next too and the county I live in is in the top 1.2% of the richest counties in the US)

 

At one point in time, we had four malls in the area (all within a 30 minute ride) and three of the four malls are either not malls any more or are in the process of being converted into mix use. Only the newest one (built in the early 1990s) is still doing "ok" but it is also surrounded by affluent customers too.

As for Amazon...the convenience factor of it alone makes it worthwhile. I used to live in a semi-rural area in Maryland that had just a Walmart and a Lowes 5-10 minutes from my house. If I wanted to go someplace else, I had to commit at least an hour ride (30 minutes or so back and forth) to get to it, like Home Depot. It was far easier just to order something and have it show up two days later or before COVID, even have same day delivery of it where I lived at currently. 

 

If you want to survive as a smaller business, you have to offer "experiences" to bring people to shop there. As an example, there is a local Pet Supply store that is about 10-15 minutes from my house-the Pricing is comparable to what you can find on line, but they offered all sorts of events (pre-covid) to bring in customers, like a thing called Friday Night bites where you could bring your dog in to play in the dog park that was next to building they are setup in and they even provided some food and refreshments at these events. 

 

What it ultimately boils down to is that things change and tastes do too. 

[Bob Rosadini]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Here's the thing we must all understand, in recent months, Ford has averaged 73,000 F Series a month.

That figure applying to the sale of classes 2 to 5 and is broken down approximately

F150.......49,000

F250.......11,000

F350........5,800

F450........2,700

F550........4,500

 

Class 6 and 7 is  barely 1500 sales....

 

E series..Still around 3000 a month.  And that F-150 number?..All  150's are 2?

But in any case I was addressing the point that it was suggested Farley thinks "commercial is 150  and Transit.  If you take 150 out of your numbers you are talking close to 30,000 a month.  And I think the class 6 and 7 numbers are depressed just because of the 19-21 model year break.  Was Ford holding back on any sales incentives in those classes because of that break?

[atomcat68]

10 hours ago, akirby said:

People don’t understand that businesses don’t pay taxes.  Consumers pay business taxes.

 

But too many people just don’t like business owners making money and want to punish them and redistribute income.

I liken it to being splashed by water when you throw rocks in a pond. So you get angry at the pond and throw a bigger rock to punish the water and get splashed even more.