HotRunrGuy Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 41 minutes ago, akirby said: You can’t look at it that way. If the price actually doubled then Ford made the same Revenue on half the sales and therefore a lot less cost so they pocketed a lot more cash on the lower sales volume. Mustang volume isn't the only thing that's 1/2 of what it was 5 years ago HRG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Thanks Ice-Capades - I was just about to mention exports. There were 126K global sales in 2017 with only 82K in the US. Mustang is doing just fine given the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: Mustang volume isn't the only thing that's 1/2 of what it was 5 years ago If profit and long term viability drove stock price Tesla would be a penny stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, akirby said: Thanks Ice-Capades - I was just about to mention exports. There were 126K global sales in 2017 with only 82K in the US. Mustang is doing just fine given the market. But, I wonder if had it been exported during the entire run, would it have suffered the same kind of sales decline? The export thing is something they should have been doing all along and seem like a missed opportunity for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 hours ago, atomcat68 said: But, I wonder if had it been exported during the entire run, would it have suffered the same kind of sales decline? The export thing is something they should have been doing all along and seem like a missed opportunity for decades. The issue was the car wouldn't have been competitive in those markets with the investment it had-It would have been laughed at 30 years ago with the Fox/SN94 platform being 20+ years old. Not to mention the interior quality material issues-the NA marketplace isn't as picky about that stuff as other markets are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 hours ago, ice-capades said: Agreed. With Mustang though, these are just NA sales numbers and don't reflect Mustang production and sales for the export markets which are a substantial part of Flat Rock's operation. And those Mustang's built for export are packaged differently and priced a lot higher than those for the domestic market. Just going by Ecoboost Mustangs (which I'd assume are the biggest sellers) they have a lot less options then their American counterparts. The also are about 15K more (Ecoboost premium vs UK config) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 5 hours ago, akirby said: Thanks Ice-Capades - I was just about to mention exports. There were 126K global sales in 2017 with only 82K in the US. Mustang is doing just fine given the market. Global sales were 102,090 in 2019 so not bad considering the majority of exports are Premium GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 5 hours ago, atomcat68 said: But, I wonder if had it been exported during the entire run, would it have suffered the same kind of sales decline? The export thing is something they should have been doing all along and seem like a missed opportunity for decades. Co-development of Mustang with with Aussie Falcon and Territory Utility would have increased scales of economy years ahead of CD6, even with preservation of unique engineering of the coupe's body proportions. All the Aussie skill of squeezing engineering to deliver more is now on display with T6 vehicles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: The issue was the car wouldn't have been competitive in those markets with the investment it had-It would have been laughed at 30 years ago with the Fox/SN94 platform being 20+ years old. Not to mention the interior quality material issues-the NA marketplace isn't as picky about that stuff as other markets are. The 2015 was upgraded significantly and was targeted at European sports cars more than Camaro. The decline in the pony car market in the US is partially offset by the exports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 7 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: Mustang volume isn't the only thing that's 1/2 of what it was 5 years ago HRG Haha, thank you HotRunrGuy sir. That's a good one. Ultimately the poor performance of F over the past 5 years is due to the fact Ford executives struggled during that entire time period to properly implement business strategies ensuring the company's long term survival. It's been one crisis after another for Ford since 2015. Jim Hackett's fitness initiatives are necessary to get things on the right track, but they have been slow to show results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hand-filer Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: The 2015 was upgraded significantly and was targeted at European sports cars more than Camaro. The decline in the pony car market in the US is partially offset by the exports. The panel gaps were horrendous on the 2015's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, hand-filer said: The panel gaps were horrendous on the 2015's Maybe but materials, NVH, ride and handling were significantly improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hand-filer Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 14 hours ago, akirby said: Maybe but materials, NVH, ride and handling were significantly improved. I agree with that. Checked out a new 2015 GT350 in the show room and observed the driver door make hard contact with the fender when I opened it. That left an indelible bad impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 S550 is the first Mustang where performance/handling, material quality and NVH really are up to snuff to compete head on with European sports coupes. Mustang EB costs about the same as Audi A5, Mercedes C300, and BMW 420i in Europe but packs a lot more power. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 Does anyone know when all of these MY2021 vehicles will appear on ford’s website or build and price? Expedition STX, ranger tremor, explorer timberline and king ranch are all vehicles I’d like to check out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Cook Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, T-dubz said: Does anyone know when all of these MY2021 vehicles will appear on ford’s website or build and price? Expedition STX, ranger tremor, explorer timberline and king ranch are all vehicles I’d like to check out. I'm surprised that the 2021 Explorer build and price hasn't shown up yet as they are already showing up on the dealer lots. Edited October 20, 2020 by Family Cook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan7 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I don't think this was seen officially yet: 2021 Ford Expedition XL STX: No Third-Row Seat, Huge Cargo Hold (motortrend.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Broncofan7 said: I don't think this was seen officially yet: 2021 Ford Expedition XL STX: No Third-Row Seat, Huge Cargo Hold (motortrend.com) And yet they show a picture of a 3-row XLT (count the headrests). HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan7 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: And yet they show a picture of a 3-row XLT (count the headrests). HRG Yep, though I think the second pic in the article shows the two rows, although I might not be seeing it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 3 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: And yet they show a picture of a 3-row XLT (count the headrests). HRG Lol, you don't need to count the headrests to know the 2nd row in an Expedition wouldn't be that close to the rear of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 If I wanted a 2 row Suv with no third row, I'd get a Bronco or Bronco Sport. An Explorer with no third row is a deal killer for me. I'd just pay more to get the third row if I was considering the Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, atomcat68 said: If I wanted a 2 row Suv with no third row, I'd get a Bronco or Bronco Sport. An Explorer with no third row is a deal killer for me. I'd just pay more to get the third row if I was considering the Explorer. But some people just don’t want a 3rd row and don’t want to pay extra. It would be a bigger difference on the Aviator because they could use a smaller engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Getting back to the Expedition XL STX, they sure are proud of it. Knowing that at some point in the future, once I retire and lose my company car, just for kicks I ran the A/Z Plan numbers comparing a base Explorer with the Expy XL STX, with the only options on both of 4WD/AWD and the factory tow package. There's an $18K difference between them. Either vehicle, in their "base" configuration, suits my needs. I don't need heated nut warmers, and I own multiple pairs of gloves. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dequindre Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 I'm not sure why this particular trim would be attractive on the retail market. Many people like having a third-row despite using it only occasionally. At this price point, it's expected nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Dequindre said: I'm not sure why this particular trim would be attractive on the retail market. Many people like having a third-row despite using it only occasionally. At this price point, it's expected nowadays. It only exists so Ford can match the starting price of Tahoe LS. Expedition XLT is comparable to Tahoe LT in terms of standard equipment. Previously, Expedition XL was fleet order only and no retail. But XL is more like Chevy's base WT trim on Silverado... Tahoe LS is a little nicer than that. So they gave it STX package like they do on the F-150 and now they have something that matches Tahoe from top to bottom. Edited January 9, 2021 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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