kyle Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 That was an area that played into GM and FCA hands when they filed bankruptcy. Every dealer needed to sign a new agreement and gave up a lot of power, including GM's request to have a signature blueprint for each brand and force stand alone operations for Cadillac in almost every market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheels23 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 hours ago, akirby said: The only thing they can legally do is limit allocation. Many years ago Ford tried to institute a program called Blue Oval Certification whereby dealers who met certain criteria including Customer Service scores got a larger holdback on each vehicle. Dealers immediately sued and won. It's utterly ridiculous. don't know what time period you are referring to but I bought a 91 SHO and when signing the papers the salesman handed me a card that if I allowed him to fill out the customer service survey he gave me a free tank of gas and I accepted the gas, would not do the same today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, tarheels23 said: don't know what time period you are referring to but I bought a 91 SHO and when signing the papers the salesman handed me a card that if I allowed him to fill out the customer service survey he gave me a free tank of gas and I accepted the gas, would not do the same today... They still do the customer surveys and it does affect the dealership in a small way but nothing like what they were planning with BO Certified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 So how is the Lincoln stand alone goal going? It has been years now and really don't know if Lincoln is making headway or not. I know that the Ford/Lincoln dealerships in Ocala, FL are combined and near me Plaza Lincoln recently merged with Plaza Cadillac and share same facility...weird. Only stand alone Lincoln near me is Orlando Lincoln and Lincoln is popular in Central Fl. Very soon Lincoln will be down to only 4 vehicles and no sedans to compete against MB, BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Alfa Romeo, Genesis, Porsche, and so on. Leave it to Ford to end scores of nameplates with no replacements anytime soon and expect dealers to invest millions in new facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: They still do the customer surveys and it does affect the dealership in a small way but nothing like what they were planning with BO Certified. The Ford dealerships are still held accountable for the survey results as part of the monthly dealership reports and the ratings as compared to other dealerships in their group, region, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, ice-capades said: The Ford dealerships are still held accountable for the survey results as part of the monthly dealership reports and the ratings as compared to other dealerships in their group, region, etc. What exactly does it affect if they get poor ratings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: So how is the Lincoln stand alone goal going? It has been years now and really don't know if Lincoln is making headway or not. I know that the Ford/Lincoln dealerships in Ocala, FL are combined and near me Plaza Lincoln recently merged with Plaza Cadillac and share same facility...weird. Only stand alone Lincoln near me is Orlando Lincoln and Lincoln is popular in Central Fl. Very soon Lincoln will be down to only 4 vehicles and no sedans to compete against MB, BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Alfa Romeo, Genesis, Porsche, and so on. Leave it to Ford to end scores of nameplates with no replacements anytime soon and expect dealers to invest millions in new facilities. Lincoln has been mismanaged for years in a lot of aspects... product development, sales markets, management, dual vs. single point stores, etc. Ten years ago Ford wanted dual Ford/Lincoln points because the Lincoln stores were doing poorly. They keep flip flopping the policy. If it's a dual Ford/Lincoln store a lot of the staff has to be duplicated... service manager, service advisors and other positions which are not always appropriate in smaller markets because of the added costs. The older dealerships/franchises have a lot of protections by being grandfathered by contract and franchise laws in some states. My old dealership uses the older Ford logo and Ford can't force it to use just the newer Ford Blue Oval logo or change the name of the dealership as newer franchises are required to do... "Ford of..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, akirby said: What exactly does it affect if they get poor ratings? I used to have access to all the reports but didn't do much more than glance at them as they weren't related to the new vehicle inventory matters that I handled. Ford generates reports like crazy and if I looked at all of them I never would have had time to do my actual job at the dealership. As such, I don't know what the actual impact poor rating have these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, ice-capades said: Lincoln has been mismanaged for years in a lot of aspects... product development, sales markets, management, dual vs. single point stores, etc. Ten years ago Ford wanted dual Ford/Lincoln points because the Lincoln stores were doing poorly. They keep flip flopping the policy. If it's a dual Ford/Lincoln store a lot of the staff has to be duplicated... service manager, service advisors and other positions which are not always appropriate in smaller markets because of the added costs. The older dealerships/franchises have a lot of protections by being grandfathered by contract and franchise laws in some states. My old dealership uses the older Ford logo and Ford can't force it to use just the newer Ford Blue Oval logo or change the name of the dealership as newer franchises are required to do... "Ford of..." The Ford/Lincoln places I have been to recently are not separate folks. It is one big place, not distinct Ford and Lincoln sides and staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Maybe Ford doesn't intend to bring Lincoln to India, but keep Lynk & Co out(?) This has nothing to do with India, but is an overview: https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-claims-lynk-co-sounds-too-much-like-lincoln 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, AGR said: Maybe Ford doesn't intend to bring Lincoln to India, but keep Lynk & Co out(?) This has nothing to do with India, but is an overview: https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-claims-lynk-co-sounds-too-much-like-lincoln Good find AGR sir! That's definitely a good reason for Ford to file a trademark application. Geely, the parent company of Lynk & Co, is seeking to expand its presence in India. Whether or not either Lincoln or Lynk & Co start local operations in India remains to be seen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheels23 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 16 hours ago, akirby said: What exactly does it affect if they get poor ratings? my point was the survey is worth less than nothing if the sales people are allowed to fill out, will never do that again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, tarheels23 said: my point was the survey is worth less than nothing if the sales people are allowed to fill out, will never do that again... Apparently they don’t get any credit for anything less than perfect scores which is ridiculous. That’s what the dealership has always told me, but they’ve never filled one out for me. I get them via email. I was really just curious how much impact it has on the dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheels23 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, akirby said: Apparently they don’t get any credit for anything less than perfect scores which is ridiculous. That’s what the dealership has always told me, but they’ve never filled one out for me. I get them via email. I was really just curious how much impact it has on the dealership. hahhaah, yea the one I was talking about was a 91 SHO before email 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I just received my second email survey asking how the Ford/Lincoln dealer did and if they resolved my issues when I had it there a month ago for 2 weeks. I already lambasted them in the first survey. Never heard from anyone. I guess I'll add a second lambasting and see if I get crickets again. I was also working on rescheduling to get my vehicle looked at a third time from that same dealer. I didn't show up and have never been contacted by them. Typical Ford/Lincoln apathetic approach to dealing with customers. The Navigator itself is very nice aside from the stupid software issues, but the ownership experience is atrocious. I am repeating myself, I realize. Unless I just absolutely love whatever the refresh/redesign Navigator ends up being when it's time for my next vehicle, I think it's time to move on from Ford and Lincoln. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Black Label said: I just received my second email survey asking how the Ford/Lincoln dealer did and if they resolved my issues when I had it there a month ago for 2 weeks. I already lambasted them in the first survey. Never heard from anyone. I guess I'll add a second lambasting and see if I get crickets again. I was also working on rescheduling to get my vehicle looked at a third time from that same dealer. I didn't show up and have never been contacted by them. Typical Ford/Lincoln apathetic approach to dealing with customers. The Navigator itself is very nice aside from the stupid software issues, but the ownership experience is atrocious. I am repeating myself, I realize. Unless I just absolutely love whatever the refresh/redesign Navigator ends up being when it's time for my next vehicle, I think it's time to move on from Ford and Lincoln. It's truly hit or miss as to whether your local Lincoln dealership is good or bad and Lincoln can't control that very much. Mine have been fine so far. However, there is no excuse for Lincoln corporate to not be responsive to complaints and at least attempt to intervene. That is 100% within their control. I would also like to see a no questions asked buyback policy on problem vehicles. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, akirby said: It's truly hit or miss as to whether your local Lincoln dealership is good or bad and Lincoln can't control that very much. Mine have been fine so far. However, there is no excuse for Lincoln corporate to not be responsive to complaints and at least attempt to intervene. That is 100% within their control. I would also like to see a no questions asked buyback policy on problem vehicles. I read the posted links yesterday. Mind boggling. You would think, at the very least, with being able to bill Lincoln for warranty work, they would be doing whatever was necessary to keep my business and resolve my issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Black Label said: I read the posted links yesterday. Mind boggling. You would think, at the very least, with being able to bill Lincoln for warranty work, they would be doing whatever was necessary to keep my business and resolve my issues. In their defense, Ford makes it very difficult to get certain things covered and when they do cover it they often lowball the reimbursement according to current and former service techs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, akirby said: In their defense, Ford makes it very difficult to get certain things covered and when they do cover it they often lowball the reimbursement according to current and former service techs. It sounds like a total crap show either way. I have been a Ford customer for 20+ years. Like the vehicles. I had great service at a dealer here for many years because I'm friends with the former service manager, who moved up to that dealer's Porsche division. Otherwise, it sucks, and it is pathetic that the Lincoln dealerships seem to give no crap whatsoever to changing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, Black Label said: I had great service at a dealer here for many years because I'm friends with the former service manager, who moved up to that dealer's Porsche division. Easy fix..... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 On 10/19/2020 at 9:29 AM, silvrsvt said: https://supreme.findlaw.com/legal-commentary/political-power-in-the-auto-industry-why-did-congress-protect-car-dealers.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/14/auto-dealers-and-state-legislatures-conspire-to-make-cars-more-expensive-can-tesla-change-that/ Are these the ones you linked yesterday? I read those. I just had no idea about all of this. It starts to become clear why the dealers just don't give a crap. But, you always hear about the opposite being true with foreign luxury makes. Like I said, time to switch, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, akirby said: Easy fix..... I haven't developed a mid-life crisis yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Black Label said: Are these the ones you linked yesterday? I read those. I just had no idea about all of this. It starts to become clear why the dealers just don't give a crap. But, you always hear about the opposite being true with foreign luxury makes. Like I said, time to switch, I guess. Again, I think a lot of it comes down to age of the dealership and decades of doing business a certain way with impunity. The imports are much newer and have better franchise agreements and just a generally better attitude. Franchises should have expirations and/or allow modifications over time. Or better yet - kill the franchise laws altogether. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, akirby said: Again, I think a lot of it comes down to age of the dealership and decades of doing business a certain way with impunity. The imports are much newer and have better franchise agreements and just a generally better attitude. Franchises should have expirations and/or allow modifications over time. Or better yet - kill the franchise laws altogether. An interesting phenomenon that foreign make dealers seem more willing to please their customers. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, Black Label said: An interesting phenomenon that foreign make dealers seem more willing to please their customers. Oh well. I bet the owner demographics are completely different as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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