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silvrsvt

E Transit unveiling 11/12/20

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Two questions in the face of battery manufacture...

 

1.) Does Ford still have a financial interest in Brazil's Fordlandia, and

2.) Does Fordlandia have any lithium deposits?

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54 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

So going back about cold weather impact of range...

 

From what I understand, this is a two sided thing-one is to keep the battery at a temp that its performance isn't impacted and the other is HVAC usage.

 

With that said, couldn't that stuff be maintained overnight while its plugged in (i.e. use the grid power to keep temp at set specifics) to lessen its impact?

 

Just as an example, keep the cabin at 50-60 degrees then warm it up to 70 or so when its in use, plus keep the batteries warm, so they aren't drawn down as much during use d

I'm also assuming the impact gets worst the colder it is-if your below freezing all day its a problem,. but if it warms up to 40 or during the day, its not as bad?

You've got it. all this is being done by others or can be done. People who built or converted EVs 30 years ago used battery heating mats under lead acid batteries.

Still, even at reduced range due to cold, the E Transit has enough range for many fleets.

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To add to the above, my 2013 C-Max Energi (PIH) allows for preheating the cabin (go time setting) up to 85 degrees when the car is plugged in, so the usual strategy in winter is to preheat the cabin and use the seat heater when starting out. Using the heat itself kills range, as others have duly noted.

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

With that said, couldn't that stuff be maintained overnight while its plugged in (i.e. use the grid power to keep temp at set specifics) to lessen its impact?

 

Just as an example, keep the cabin at 50-60 degrees then warm it up to 70 or so when its in use, plus keep the batteries warm, so they aren't drawn down as much during use during the day?


That’s exactly what Ford does while the vehicle is plugged in.

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

Two questions in the face of battery manufacture...

 

1.) Does Ford still have a financial interest in Brazil's Fordlandia, and

2.) Does Fordlandia have any lithium deposits?

 

1.) Good question, but probably no. I'm not even sure whether they still own the land or if they sold it.

2.) Most of the lithium in the region is found in Argentinq, Bolivia and Chile. Not much lithium in Brazil, as far as I'm aware, and known deposits are in Minas Gerais region. I've never heard of lithium in the Amazon but who knows.

 

Anyway, I guess Fordlandia was only good for rubber - well, not even that...

Edited by passis

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(duplicated... sorry)

Edited by passis

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7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

So going back about cold weather impact of range...

 

From what I understand, this is a two sided thing-one is to keep the battery at a temp that its performance isn't impacted and the other is HVAC usage.

 

With that said, couldn't that stuff be maintained overnight while its plugged in (i.e. use the grid power to keep temp at set specifics) to lessen its impact?

 

Just as an example, keep the cabin at 50-60 degrees then warm it up to 70 or so when its in use, plus keep the batteries warm, so they aren't drawn down as much during use during the day?

 

I'm also assuming the impact gets worst the colder it is-if your below freezing all day its a problem,. but if it warms up to 40 or during the day, its not as bad?


I feel like that was something that was talked about as a possibility, perhaps by Tesla? 

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17 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I feel like that was something that was talked about as a possibility, perhaps by Tesla? 


For the second time, Ford already has this feature planned for Mach-e and E transit.

 

Remote services like vehicle pre-conditioning – which optimizes cabin temperatures while E-Transit is plugged in to optimize battery efficiency – are also available, 

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8 minutes ago, akirby said:


For the second time, Ford already has this feature planned for Mach-e and E transit.

 

Remote services like vehicle pre-conditioning – which optimizes cabin temperatures while E-Transit is plugged in to optimize battery efficiency – are also available, 


Yeah I hadn't seen your comment yet when I made that post. Should have edited it but my 4 year old decided to throw an epic tantrum and I got distracted. 

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Cobalt....thats the issue with the battereries.....lithium can erupt violently due to damage or heat (thermal runaway) and well see cobalt....ford goes into battery manuf i am going to play the cobalt market

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9 hours ago, lfeg said:

Still, even at reduced range due to cold, the E Transit has enough range for many fleets.


I think it’s a bit premature to assume that.  We don’t know what kind of mileage hit it will take when loaded, we don’t know how much the cold itself will impact batteries, and we don’t know how much electricity the heaters will use. 
 

And has Ford put out any communication on how much a typical circular saw or plug in tool (or battery charger for cordless tools) will affect the range?  Like an hour of continuous use of a circular saw will reduce range by 1 mile or something like that?

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1 hour ago, FR739 said:


I think it’s a bit premature to assume that.  We don’t know what kind of mileage hit it will take when loaded, we don’t know how much the cold itself will impact batteries, and we don’t know how much electricity the heaters will use. 
 

And has Ford put out any communication on how much a typical circular saw or plug in tool (or battery charger for cordless tools) will affect the range?  Like an hour of continuous use of a circular saw will reduce range by 1 mile or something like that?


If there is one thing Ford knows it’s commercial trucks and vans.  I’m 100% confident they’ve taken all that into consideration when selecting the 126 mile range.  Longer ranges will be available for anyone who needs it.  They’re just trying to meet the bulk of the market needs at the lowest possible price point.

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Ranges may seem low but Ford argues that commercial customers know what they want and are price sensitive,

so I'd take it that Ford already knows what it needs to provide and at what price. 

 

Ford discovered that commercials average 74 miles of travel per day, so there's probably ample charge

to run power tools during the day.

 

Edited by jpd80

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On 11/14/2020 at 5:10 PM, akirby said:


If there is one thing Ford knows it’s commercial trucks and vans.  I’m 100% confident they’ve taken all that into consideration when selecting the 126 mile range.  Longer ranges will be available for anyone who needs it.  They’re just trying to meet the bulk of the market needs at the lowest possible price point.

 

Interesting to note also that Ford is saying 126 miles is EPA range estimate. The same eTransit van with 67 kwh battery has 350 km or 217 miles WLTP range estimate.

 

Link here: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2020/11/12/All-Electric-Ford-E-Transit.pdf

 

Based on real life performance of other EVs, the actual range is typically somewhere between the pessimistic EPA and optimistic WLTP (mainly because they have different test cycles).

 

So it's highly likely that eTransit will exceed 126 miles under normal ops - especially if the driving is all low speed with lots of stop and go. 

 

Whatever the case, this is a far more robust van than Mercedes' eSprinter or VW's eCrafter. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by bzcat

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I do not think most pick up and delivery users will be using the E Transit to operate power tools. This will be the big market for it. For those in the trades it will be different. But I see very few tradesmen using generators around my area, as most use site power, so I think that may only be an issue in remote areas or where there is no site power.

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On 11/12/2020 at 8:56 AM, barney9014 said:

I think of the current local FEDEX fleet queued up for fuel in the morning at the nearest station.  Waiting.  

I stopped at the QT near my office on the way back from lunch the other day. I'm glad I wasn't there for gas, because all 20 of the pumps were occupied by an Amazon van (mostly white Budget/etc rentals, not the blue Amazon delivery vans). Those things are going to be parked for 10 or so hours overnight every night, and I'd bet that few of them would exceed the 125 mi/day range (plus, they might be able to exceed that if they go into a low-power mode while the driver is dropping off packages), so it seems like a no-brainer for them. 

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8 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

I stopped at the QT near my office on the way back from lunch the other day. I'm glad I wasn't there for gas, because all 20 of the pumps were occupied by an Amazon van (mostly white Budget/etc rentals, not the blue Amazon delivery vans). Those things are going to be parked for 10 or so hours overnight every night, and I'd bet that few of them would exceed the 125 mi/day range (plus, they might be able to exceed that if they go into a low-power mode while the driver is dropping off packages), so it seems like a no-brainer for them. 


It would probably suck for drivers but take out things that sap power like radios and power windows and they might be able to squeak some more range out of it. 

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On 11/14/2020 at 8:20 AM, twintornados said:

 

1.) Does Ford still have a financial interest in Brazil's Fordlandia, and

According to Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordlândia ), the Deuce sold Fordlandia back to the Brazilian gov't in '45, so  probably not.

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3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It would probably suck for drivers but take out things that sap power like radios and power windows and they might be able to squeak some more range out of it. 

I'm thinking power windows probably don't pull much juice (and can you even get a Transit with manual crank windows?), but the radio might. The nav system (even if you just use CarPlay or Android Auto) is probably going to make it a keeper for delivery vehicles, though. 
 

If what was posted above, and 75mi is the average daily mileage for their target audience, it seems like keeping the HVAC and other amenities isn't going to be a deal breaker.

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3 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I stopped at the QT near my office on the way back from lunch the other day. I'm glad I wasn't there for gas, because all 20 of the pumps were occupied by an Amazon van (mostly white Budget/etc rentals, not the blue Amazon delivery vans). Those things are going to be parked for 10 or so hours overnight every night, and I'd bet that few of them would exceed the 125 mi/day range (plus, they might be able to exceed that if they go into a low-power mode while the driver is dropping off packages), so it seems like a no-brainer for them. 

Yes definitely time wasted. 

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