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Another new V8 ?


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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I have fixed a few lifter failures/camshafts in LS engines.  Nowhere near the valvetrain issues that 3 valve Mods had.  Starting to see cam follower and valve retainer failures on older 6.2's now.

 

One of the things I don't like about the 7.3L is that all the cam phaser components are behind the timing cover.  You can get to all the LS cam phaser parts by just removing the water pump. 

 

I have repaired dozens of failed LS lifters in low mileage examples.  Non-AFM, LS7 (and non-LS7) lifter roller failures are very common, but I deal mostly with performance cars and usage profiles may be different from the norms.  LS lifters do not like RPM at all, by that I mean over 6000 rpm with any regularity.  With that said you can almost bank on AFM/DoD lifter failure or loss of oil pressure to the VLOM below 150K in mild-use trucks.  The DoD/AFM engines are terrible, with at least a comparable failure rate to the 3V Mod valve train which is also terrible in my opinion.   2V/4V Mods simply almost never have follower or lash adjuster failure.  

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16 hours ago, theoldwizard said:

I got $20 that says you will not see an engine with more than 8 cylinders during the remainder of my life !

Since you didn’t specify Ford, I’d take the bet.  V12s are still being developed for super cars.  Over 1000hp from 6.xL.  12 cyl to stay close to the 500cc combustion chamber size.  I think you meant a Ford with more than 8 cyl.  In that case, I doubt it.  Might make a 5.4-6.0L v12 ecoboost for some specialty mfg, but I doubt it would show up in any Ford product.  
 

A v12 GT would be cool, though.

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7 hours ago, slemke said:

Since you didn’t specify Ford, I’d take the bet.  V12s are still being developed for super cars.  Over 1000hp from 6.xL.  12 cyl to stay close to the 500cc combustion chamber size.  I think you meant a Ford with more than 8 cyl.  In that case, I doubt it.  Might make a 5.4-6.0L v12 ecoboost for some specialty mfg, but I doubt it would show up in any Ford product.  
 

A v12 GT would be cool, though.


The new Euro regulations are making it almost impossible to develop new V12s even for supercar mfrs like Ferrari.

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8 hours ago, slemke said:

Since you didn’t specify Ford, I’d take the bet.  V12s are still being developed for super cars.  Over 1000hp from 6.xL.  12 cyl to stay close to the 500cc combustion chamber size.  I think you meant a Ford with more than 8 cyl.  In that case, I doubt it.  Might make a 5.4-6.0L v12 ecoboost for some specialty mfg, but I doubt it would show up in any Ford product.  
 

A v12 GT would be cool, though.

 

There's no way that Ford is going to spend what it would cost to develop a new V12 in the changing marketplace without utilizing it for a Ford product first. Not going to happen. 

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On 11/26/2020 at 3:05 AM, 7Mary3 said:

 

I have fixed a few lifter failures/camshafts in LS engines.  Nowhere near the valvetrain issues that 3 valve Mods had.  Starting to see cam follower and valve retainer failures on older 6.2's now.

 

One of the things I don't like about the 7.3L is that all the cam phaser components are behind the timing cover.  You can get to all the LS cam phaser parts by just removing the water pump. 

The question to ask with the 7.3 is whether you need to get to the lifters if they’re just standard roller hydraulic (no AFM) and whether the cam phaser has been made more reliable because it’s in a heavy duty truck application?  
 

Of course certain design decisions prevent easy access on the 7.3, that may prove costly to owners or, it may never be a real problem until the engine has done its life’s work.

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I would be very nervous about adding that much power to an engine without doing anything to the bottom end.... 

The big thing in the 7.3's favor is its heavy duty truck design philosophy, the reserve built into 

the bottom can be seen, surviving under 15 psi boost - the test was a demonstration of that.

 

Now imagine how Bullitt proof it could be with better crank, rods and pistons........

 

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun.

 

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I bet the factory crank is good for well into the four figure hp range.  Going back to the 5.4 mod cranks (themselves good for 1200-1500 hp with nothing more than some polishing and radiusing) ford has been doing forged steel cranks in all the truck motors.  Even with huge boost and nitrous no one is breaking ford truck cranks these days.

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13 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I would be very nervous about adding that much power to an engine without doing anything to the bottom end.... 

 

I think they want to test the limit before they crack it open. 1100HP with a stock bottom end without blowing up is pretty awesome. And it sounded fantastic as well!

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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

The bottom end doesn't scare me.  The bore spacing and block deck surface do, however.

 

3 hours ago, NLPRacing said:

 

I think they want to test the limit before they crack it open. 1100HP with a stock bottom end without blowing up is pretty awesome. And it sounded fantastic as well!


There's a video I saw of someone grenading their GT500 engine after adding a ton of boost but not touching the bottom end at all. I forgot the final power number but it was well into 4 figures. 

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On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 6:32 AM, ice-capades said:

 

There's no way that Ford is going to spend what it would cost to develop a new V12 in the changing marketplace without utilizing it for a Ford product first. Not going to happen. 

I don't know...how about fusing two 7.3s together for a 14.6 V16.....lol...

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7 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

The bottom end doesn't scare me.  The bore spacing and block deck surface do, however.

 

I have my reservations too about the cuts between cylinder bores.  But then I had a John Deere 466 apart the other day.  The deck looked very similar to the 7.3's, complete with tight bore spacing and the cuts.  Those 466s are highly regarded.  You never hear of them having head gasket issues, even running big boost.  Apples to oranges, I know, but I found it interesting how similar the decks were.

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7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Or an 11 liter V12 for F650 and F750, large capacity gas alternative to Powerstroke.

I’d settle for a 6.0l v12 ecoboost in a Raptor.   8.5l v10 would work also.  I don’t see the point of a smaller displacement v8 off of the 7.3.  Just use the 7.3 and be done with it, unless the 6.8l is some high-revving monster.  The 410 cu in rousch Yates v8 in the hoonicorn revs to 8600rpm and makes 1400hp.....that could work in the raptor.

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13 hours ago, slemke said:

I’d settle for a 6.0l v12 ecoboost in a Raptor.   8.5l v10 would work also.  I don’t see the point of a smaller displacement v8 off of the 7.3.  Just use the 7.3 and be done with it, unless the 6.8l is some high-revving monster.  The 410 cu in rousch Yates v8 in the hoonicorn revs to 8600rpm and makes 1400hp.....that could work in the raptor.

 

Not much is known about the new 6.8L V8 other than it's 7.3L Godzilla based. It could have an aluminum block, direct injection, built for boost, etc. I can't wait to learn more about it.

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18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


We don't even really know that, it's just kind of assumed 

Given the anticipated low volume, funding a completely different engine would be very hard to justify.

....but not impossible I guess.

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1 hour ago, Stray Kat said:

What it it’s a DOHC 4V V8 based on the 6.2 Raptor engine? Can you imagine??

 

That ☝️would be the “doomsday” engine Ford could use to send a message heard ‘round the world. 

The only thing better would be some sort of 4v V10 or V12 (with a proper 72 or 60 degree block, none of that split pin or odd-fire nonsense to fit it in a 90 degree block).  Ford has had the engineering 80% complete and the various pieces laying around thanks to the mod program for 25 years now.  Please Ford please give us one last pinnacle ICE!

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25 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

The only thing better would be some sort of 4v V10 or V12 (with a proper 72 or 60 degree block, none of that split pin or odd-fire nonsense to fit it in a 90 degree block).  Ford has had the engineering 80% complete and the various pieces laying around thanks to the mod program for 25 years now.  Please Ford please give us one last pinnacle ICE!


In the unlikely event they do that there's a zero chance it would have more cylinders than 8. There's really nothing to put something bigger in that's not a truck. 

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