Mach E platform to be used for another vehicle.

[rperez817]

12 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Would Ford need to do that right now or is a starting price of $40K to $50k a better way to scoop up interested buyers for now, Lincoln and high series Ford’s to follow later?

 

Either way could work fine for Ford. They've been successful in recent years selling high end F-Series, Expeditions, and Navigators and hopefully that can be applied to Ford's EV strategy too. The demand for high-end "status" BEV is out there. Hopefully Kumar Golhotra's statement about Ford's BEV strategy doesn't mean they ignore that market.

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Maybe it’s the new “affordable vehicle”?

Just had a vision of the Mach E platform tweaked to make a BEV Fusion.....

[sullynd]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Just had a vision of the Mach E platform tweaked to make a BEV Fusion.....

I’ve been thinking Mustang Falcon-E. 

[silvrsvt]

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's because the part isn't exactly the same. The part may perform the same function and may even come from the same supplier firm, but engineering specs for the version used by American automakers differ from the versions used by European and Asian automakers.

 

It's the American way, all 3 of the major U.S. automakers (Ford, GM, Tesla) are aggressive when it comes to cutting costs with interior materials and switchgear.

 

Or maybe it because the North American market doesn't demand it? 

 

I remember years ago (15 years or so) people claiming how much better the interior materials where in EU Fords vs NA Fords (Focus in particular) that when I was there and in a Focus or comparable product, the materials where more or less identical and def not a huge step over the NA product.

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Either way could work fine for Ford. They've been successful in recent years selling high end F-Series, Expeditions, and Navigators and hopefully that can be applied to Ford's EV strategy too. The demand for high-end "status" BEV is out there. Hopefully Kumar Golhotra's statement about Ford's BEV strategy doesn't mean they ignore that market.

I think Ford is doing it the right way if they’re trying to prove that a lower priced mass marked BEV is viable. Tesla proved its there in the luxury space years ago. GM tried with Bolt but it's not doing as well as they hoped, ugly jellybean looks aren't helping there. It's Ford's turn to the plate, let's see if they hit a home run or just another single. Either way I'm sure a Lincoln is probably in the pipeline somewhere. 

[twintornados]

11 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

...Tesla proved its there in the luxury space years ago...

 

Being expensive does not equate to being luxurious....much to the chagrin of Elon Musk and @rperez817. Just because rich people buy it, doesn't make it a luxury marquee. 

[rperez817]

21 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

Being expensive does not equate to being luxurious....much to the chagrin of Elon Musk and @rperez817. Just because rich people buy it, doesn't make it a luxury marquee. 

 

"Luxury marque" status is based both on product attributes and brand image. It's a subjective term and what some people consider to be a luxury automobile brand isn't to others. However, automotive industry analysts are in agreement that these car brands are "luxury marques" in the U.S. market. The ones in bold are Tier 1, with the strongest presence in the market.

 

Among the 3 American luxury brands, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Tesla, Tesla is by far the strongest but they need to expand their product lineup to join Tier 1.

 

• Acura
• Alfa Romeo
• Aston Martin
• Audi
• Bentley
• BMW
• Cadillac
• Ferrari
• Infiniti
• Jaguar
• Lamborghini
• Land Rover
• Lexus
• Lincoln
• Maserati
• McLaren
• Mercedes-Benz
• Porsche
• Rolls-Royce
• Tesla
• Volvo

Edited November 11, 2020 by rperez817

[twintornados]

2 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

"Luxury marque" status is based both on product attributes and brand image. It's a subjective term and what some people consider to be a luxury automobile brand isn't to others. However, automotive industry analysts are in agreement that these car brands are "luxury marques" in the U.S. market.

 

[atomcat68]

30 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

"Luxury marque" status is based both on product attributes and brand image. It's a subjective term and what some people consider to be a luxury automobile brand isn't to others. However, automotive industry analysts are in agreement that these car brands are "luxury marques" in the U.S. market. The ones in bold are Tier 1, with the strongest presence in the market.

 

Among the 3 American luxury brands, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Tesla, Tesla is by far the strongest but they need to expand their product lineup to join Tier 1.

 

• Acura
• Alfa Romeo
• Aston Martin
• Audi
• Bentley
• BMW
• Cadillac
• Ferrari
• Infiniti
• Jaguar
• Lamborghini
• Land Rover
• Lexus
• Lincoln
• Maserati
• McLaren
• Mercedes-Benz
• Porsche
• Rolls-Royce
• Tesla
• Volvo

What you bolded in the list is purely by sales, not by brand image. Any sane person would choose Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Rolls Royce over the four in bold letters if it was measured by prestige.

[jasonj80]

5 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

What you bolded in the list is purely by sales, not by brand image. Any sane person would choose Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Rolls Royce over the four in bold letters if it was measured by prestige.

As well as include Aston Martin, Porsche, Land Rover/Range Rover. 

[rperez817]

22 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

What you bolded in the list is purely by sales, not by brand image. Any sane person would choose Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Rolls Royce over the four in bold letters if it was measured by prestige.

 

Yes sir, in this context "Tier 1" luxury marque status is based on the definition used by automotive industry analysts and marketers. This measure combines brand image/reputation, extent of product lineup, and sales volume. You are correct that the ultra luxury brands mentioned have more prestige to most people than the Tier 1 luxury brands. 

 

Going by prestige alone, even some non luxury brands such as GMC and Ford have sub brands like Denali and King Ranch that are more prestigious than certain models from the Tier 1 luxury brands.

[bzcat]

15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

OK, Ford confirms a second vehicle with similar electric engineering as Mach E at Cuautitlan.

 

Lincoln or another ford badged product?

 

Ford has gone really quite on the BEV utilities for Ohio... especially after UNIFOR contract was ratified.

 

Guessing those have quietly moved down to Cuautitlan.

 

Another product that seemed to have disappeared is the autonomous EV van based on Transit Connect... it was supposed to be build at a new facility attached to Flat Rock but I've heard nothing about it lately. 

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

13 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Ford has gone really quite on the BEV utilities for Ohio... especially after UNIFOR contract was ratified.

TBF there wasn't ever a big announcement tied to it in the first place, it was just one of those things that came out in passing when the contract details came out. 

 

14 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Another product that seemed to have disappeared is the autonomous EV van based on Transit Connect... it was supposed to be build at a new facility attached to Flat Rock but I've heard nothing about it lately. 

They’re going to the MAP mod center according to the 2019 UAW contract. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Ford has gone really quite on the BEV utilities for Ohio... especially after UNIFOR contract was ratified.

 

Guessing those have quietly moved down to Cuautitlan.

 

Another product that seemed to have disappeared is the autonomous EV van based on Transit Connect... it was supposed to be build at a new facility attached to Flat Rock but I've heard nothing about it lately. 

 

As Fuzzy said above, I think that the EV equipment was to be fitted at the MOD Centre at MAP

but there's been zero said about Transit Connect assembly and VW seems to have taken over

Ford's AV development. Ford is probably still working on AV but nowhere near the scale of 

vehicles originally anticipated.

 

[jniffen]

16 hours ago, akirby said:

Maybe it’s the new “affordable vehicle”?

 

Isn't the Nissan Leif an PHEV?

I believe it is a big seller.

I know I could look this up in google but not today Zurg!

 

I was wondering if the Mach-E would be placed in the Lincoln line to replace the MKZ/Contiental, for those who don't want a 'too tall SUV'. (Or some argument like that).

[silvrsvt]

10 minutes ago, jniffen said:

 

Isn't the Nissan Leif an PHEV?

I believe it is a big seller

 

I haven't seen many on the road and from other reports I've seen, its often leased out at sub rates too. 

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, jniffen said:

Isn't the Nissan Leif an PHEV?

I believe it is a big seller.

 

Nissan LEAF is BEV (electric power only). Sales were reasonably strong from 2011 to 2014 in the U.S., but then dropped off a lot. From January - September 2020, Nissan only sold 4,923 LEAF in the U.S. market. That's less than half the number of Infiniti QX80 sold in the same period.

[akirby]

18 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Nissan LEAF is BEV (electric power only). Sales were reasonably strong from 2011 to 2014 in the U.S., but then dropped off a lot. From January - September 2020, Nissan only sold 4,923 LEAF in the U.S. market. That's less than half the number of Infiniti QX80 sold in the same period.

 

Sales were huge from 2011 to 2014 because they were practically giving them away.  $199 leases.    I keep telling you guys that price determines sales more than anything.

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Sales were huge from 2011 to 2014 because they were practically giving them away.  $199 leases.    I keep telling you guys that price determines sales more than anything.

 

In the U.S. market purchase (or lease) price for BEV is a factor, but not the primary one. Tesla Model S is priced much higher than LEAF, yet in the U.S. market Model S outsold LEAF every year from 2015 onward. 

[akirby]

3 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

In the U.S. market purchase (or lease) price for BEV is a factor, but not the primary one. Tesla Model S is priced much higher than LEAF, yet in the U.S. market Model S outsold LEAF every year from 2015 onward. 

 

Just look at Tesla sales.   3rd qtr Model S/X (higher priced models) 15K   Model 3/Y (lower priced) 124K.

 

The lower you go in price the more potential buyers.  Especially if you're selling a $200/month payment.   The higher you go the less buyers.   If you take a specific product that's priced with the market and raise prices sales will go down.   If you put $5K on the hood sales will go up.   Not rocket science.

[rperez817]

6 minutes ago, akirby said:

If you take a specific product that's priced with the market and raise prices sales will go down. 

 

Yes sir, pricing adjustments for a specific product will of course impact the demand and ultimately sales volume for that product. However, when consumers compare one BEV product to another, initial purchase or lease price isn't the primary factor that will determine their final decision. Not even close. If lowest possible initial purchase or lease price was so important to these consumers, Mitsubishi i-MiEV wouldn't have done so poorly in the U.S. market.

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir, pricing adjustments for a specific product will of course impact the demand and ultimately sales volume for that product. However, when consumers compare one BEV product to another, initial purchase or lease price isn't the primary factor that will determine their final decision. Not even close. If lowest possible initial purchase or lease price was so important to these consumers, Mitsubishi i-MiEV wouldn't have done so poorly in the U.S. market.

 

Then explain why model 3/Y sold 8+ times more units than model S/X.  They're all Tesla 4 door BEVs.

[rperez817]

22 minutes ago, akirby said:

Then explain why model 3/Y sold 8+ times more units than model S/X.  They're all Tesla 4 door BEVs.

 

Very simple, Tesla's marketing strategy for 4 door BEV specifically makes Model 3 and Model Y the company's "high-volume" automobiles. Within the Tesla vehicle lineup, Model Y is expected to be the highest volume product of all, even though its starting price in the U.S. is $12,000 more than Model 3. Model Y is already outselling Model 3 in California.

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Very simple, Tesla's marketing strategy for 4 door BEV specifically makes Model 3 and Model Y the company's "high-volume" automobiles. Within the Tesla vehicle lineup, Model Y is expected to be the highest volume product of all, even though its starting price in the U.S. is $12,000 more than Model 3. Model Y is already outselling Model 3 in California.

Really?  You think it’s because of marketing strategy?

 

no.  It’s because it’s the “cool” brand but at a relatively affordable price.  That’s it.

 

and Y may do better than 3 because it’s more of an SUV, and these days, SUV > sedan.  It’s that simple.   Nothing to do with any marketing strategy.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Really?  You think it’s because of marketing strategy?

 

Yes sir, really. Tesla executives including Elon Musk described that strategy in its quarterly Q&A webcasts. Doesn't matter what you or I think of it, Tesla committed to make Model 3 and Model Y the high volume components of its automotive marketing, and it works.