Mach E platform to be used for another vehicle.

[fuzzymoomoo]

54 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

We'll all know better once they reach the "OK to Buy" status and units start shipping. I'm anxious to see how it looks in person compared to the photos. 

I've seen a few on the road, it looks much better in person. Especially in dark red. 

[ice-capades]

44 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I've seen a few on the road, it looks much better in person. Especially in dark red. 

 

Our first stock Mach-E that was produced is Rapid Red so I'll look forward to seeing it.

[FordBuyer]

4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you ice-capades sir! My wife and I are hoping that the Mustang Mach-E we ordered arrives at our dealership before the end of the year (even better, before Christmas). But if we have to wait until the start of 2021 that's fine too. 

We will anxiously be waiting for your review whe you get your Grabber Blue Mach E.

[sullynd]

3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Our first stock Mach-E that was produced is Rapid Red so I'll look forward to seeing it.

I originally reserved white, but switched to red when I placed my order. It’ll be my first non gray/white new car. 

[FR739]

5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir, if you're referring to the business model of mass producing and selling ICE powered cars and trucks that is correct.  

You are joking?  There is nothing to support that assertion.  
 

The vast majority of people do not want electric vehicles.  If they did, we would see them being produced in large numbers by legitimate automakers and not tech companies that make rolling fashion accessories. 
 

GM made $4.4 billion dollars last quarter. 
Chrysler made $3 billion in North America last quarter. 

Ford made $2.34 billion last quarter.

 

Now how do you suppose they did that?  With a business model that works and that business model is ICE powered vehicles.  

[Flying68]

CAFE credits served their purpose in allowing development of electric vehicles. Basically ICE vehicles subsidized the R&D cost and lowered the sales price of those electric vehicles. But now with mandates looming, every manufacturer is having to develop and commit resources to EV's. This makes CAFE credits pointless and actually serves to slow development of EV's (see FCA and their Hellcat everything strategy). It also distorts capital allocation making companies like Tesla appear profitable when they aren't.  This draws in investor dollars when other more worthy alternatives would be better investments for the industry.

 

Eliminate CAFE credit sales and you will see more selection and better products. The short term increase in Tesla prices will be offset by lower priced offerings from others.  Tesla right now has the best performance for the price because you are paying below cost for that performance.

[akirby]

10 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

Tesla right now has the best performance for the price because you are paying below cost for that performance.

Imagine if Ford sold F150s below cost.....

[FordBuyer]

2 hours ago, FR739 said:

You are joking?  There is nothing to support that assertion.  
 

The vast majority of people do not want electric vehicles.  If they did, we would see them being produced in large numbers by legitimate automakers and not tech companies that make rolling fashion accessories. 
 

GM made $4.4 billion dollars last quarter. 
Chrysler made $3 billion in North America last quarter. 

Ford made $2.34 billion last quarter.

 

Now how do you suppose they did that?  With a business model that works and that business model is ICE powered vehicles.  

Yes, there is no proof yet that huge numbers of auto buyers hunger for BEV's. Both the Bolt and Leaf have disappointing sales numbers. Tesla has had success, but verdict is still out if buyers will buy them in huge numbers. Hybrids have caught on and Toyota and Ford can't meet demand for Rav4 and Escape hybrids. So the big question is: if you build hundreds of thousands of BEV's, will people buy them in numbers that are profitable. Staunch upscale environmentalists seem to buy them, especially Tesla, but will others? Maybe that is why Ford is only building 50,000 Mach E's. Enough to supply California and parts of Europe and then see.

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, FR739 said:

You are joking?  There is nothing to support that assertion.   

 

No joke FR739 sir. ICE powered motor vehicles that use fossil fuels are inherently unsustainable, and any business model that's based on producing and selling such products long term is unsustainable as well. Governments around the world recognize that, several have already announced bans on the sale of ICE powered cars and light trucks by 2040 or even before.

[slemke]

50 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No joke FR739 sir. ICE powered motor vehicles that use fossil fuels are inherently unsustainable, and any business model that's based on producing and selling such products long term is unsustainable as well. Governments around the world recognize that, several have already announced bans on the sale of ICE powered cars and light trucks by 2040 or even before.

ICE do not have to run on fossil fuel.  Diesel engines can use numerous forms of bio fuels including recycled grease.  Gas engines use ethanol.  Many of the high performance ecoboost tunes are set to use varying amounts of ethanol up to e85.  I think they will be around for quite some time, but likely running on ever increasing amounts of bio fuels.

[snooter]

Government is the problem...they destroy and not create

[rperez817]

46 minutes ago, slemke said:

ICE do not have to run on fossil fuel.  Diesel engines can use numerous forms of bio fuels including recycled grease.  Gas engines use ethanol.  Many of the high performance ecoboost tunes are set to use varying amounts of ethanol up to e85.  I think they will be around for quite some time, but likely running on ever increasing amounts of bio fuels.

 

Yes sir slemke, if next generation renewable biofuels from non edible feedstocks become viable, that may extend the life expectancy of ICE.

[FR739]

4 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Yes, there is no proof yet that huge numbers of auto buyers hunger for BEV's. Both the Bolt and Leaf have disappointing sales numbers. Tesla has had success, but verdict is still out if buyers will buy them in huge numbers. Hybrids have caught on and Toyota and Ford can't meet demand for Rav4 and Escape hybrids. So the big question is: if you build hundreds of thousands of BEV's, will people buy them in numbers that are profitable. Staunch upscale environmentalists seem to buy them, especially Tesla, but will others? Maybe that is why Ford is only building 50,000 Mach E's. Enough to supply California and parts of Europe and then see.

Personally I think hybrids are where it’s at. Fuel consumption is greatly reduced and you don’t have all of the compromises like you do an electric vehicle. 
 

I think part of the reason the MachE is limited is because this is new territory for Ford and as such they do not want to put a ton of eggs in one basket.  So they kept it limited.  It makes sense.  If it’s a success I’m sure they have a plan set up to scale production if necessary.  

 

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

No joke FR739 sir. ICE powered motor vehicles that use fossil fuels are inherently unsustainable, and any business model that's based on producing and selling such products long term is unsustainable as well. Governments around the world recognize that, several have already announced bans on the sale of ICE powered cars and light trucks by 2040 or even before.

This is pure nonsense.  Not only are they sustainable, they are going to be the backbone of the auto industry for decades to come.  

[rperez817]

47 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Not only are they sustainable, they are going to be the backbone of the auto industry for decades to come.  

 

Fossil fuels used in ICE powered motor vehicles contribute to climate change and represent the opposite of sustainable. How can that be the "backbone of the auto industry for decades to come" when governments have already announced bans on the sale of new ICE powered cars and trucks as soon as 2030, in the case of U.K.?  

Edited November 16, 2020 by rperez817

[twintornados]

6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Fossil fuels used in ICE powered motor vehicles contribute to climate change and represent the opposite of sustainable. How can that be the "backbone of the auto industry for decades to come" when governments have already announced bans on the sale of new ICE powered cars and trucks as soon as 2030, in the case of U.K.?  

 

One of those rare moments where I agree with rperez817.....ICE powered anything is on the precipice of changing...maybe we won't see the full implementation of it but my kids and grandkids will one day look at my 1983 Mustang GLX with amazement.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

One of those rare moments where I agree with rperez817.....ICE powered anything is on the precipice of changing...maybe we won't see the full implementation of it but my kids and grandkids will one day look at my 1983 Mustang GLX with amazement.

My uncle has a country place that no one knows about

He says it used to be a farm, before the motor law 

[FR739]

11 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Fossil fuels used in ICE powered motor vehicles contribute to climate change and represent the opposite of sustainable. How can that be the "backbone of the auto industry for decades to come" when governments have already announced bans on the sale of new ICE powered cars and trucks as soon as 2030, in the case of U.K.?  

So by just saying, with no proof, that ICE cars are unsustainable that makes it true?  I don’t think that’s how it works.  
 

Right now there are severe compromises with EVs.  Those are not going away anytime soon.  The biggest issue is range.  But solving that issue is complex.  Bigger batteries is probably the cheapest solution but that impacts every other aspect of the vehicle.  Putting in charging stations is wildly expensive and even then you have to sit for hours to get a full charge.  Lastly we are not at the point where we can charge the batteries in a reasonable amount of time.  If the batteries could be charged in 10-15 minutes it would be an entirely different story.  I don’t even need to mention the amount of money it would take to upgrade the grid to allow for all these vehicles.  Our grid can’t handle the load out on it now. 

 

An automotive channel on YouTube towed a camper trailer with their Model X from Denver to the PNW.  Their trip was far longer than with a traditional ICE vehicle.  It was unacceptable.  That’s the reality.  
 

Right now, EVs are great second vehicles or for people that don’t travel or leave their home area very much.  That’s a small group of people.  But for everyone else, people that travel, people that don’t have the extra money to spend $45k on a second car and would rather spend $20k on a gently used Fusion for example, tow things, need a truck/suv/etc it’s just not a viable option and there is nothing in the future that says it’s going to change anytime soon.  
 

As for governments “banning” the sale of ICE vehicles, it’s all a smoke show.  They do it to get votes and please their base.  And as soon as they leave office it can be reversed. 
 

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

24 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Right now, EVs are great second vehicles or for people that don’t travel or leave their home area very much.  That’s a small group of people.  But for everyone else, people that travel, people that don’t have the extra money to spend $45k on a second car and would rather spend $20k on a gently used Fusion for example, tow things, need a truck/suv/etc it’s just not a viable option and there is nothing in the future that says it’s going to change anytime soon.  

It definitely depends on individual situations. The more I think about it the more a Mach-E (or something similar) makes sense for me because we have the Flex as a family hauler. Even a BEV F-150 when that comes out could make sense, as long as they install more charging stations at work that aren't miles away from my building. Seriously, the only one I'm aware of is in front of Final Assembly (In a handicap spot no less) and that building is on a completely different road and it would take me just as long to walk from there to my line as it would to drive from home to work. 

 

27 minutes ago, FR739 said:

As for governments “banning” the sale of ICE vehicles, it’s all a smoke show.  They do it to get votes and please their base.  And as soon as they leave office it can be reversed. 
 

In most places, this is probably true. In somewhere like California, London or Paris that are so far left the pendulum is broken off those policies will never be reversed. 

[HotRunrGuy]

17 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It definitely depends on individual situations. The more I think about it the more a Mach-E (or something similar) makes sense for me because we have the Flex as a family hauler. Even a BEV F-150 when that comes out could make sense, as long as they install more charging stations at work that aren't miles away from my building. Seriously, the only one I'm aware of is in front of Final Assembly (In a handicap spot no less) and that building is on a completely different road and it would take me just as long to walk from there to my line as it would to drive from home to work. 

 

 

Fuzzy,

    Why do you think your employer should be responsible for providing the "energy" needed for you to get back & forth to work?  Do they pay for the gas you use now?

 

I'm pretty sure the underlying intent is for most BEV users to charge at home.

 

HRG

[fuzzymoomoo]

24 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Fuzzy,

    Why do you think your employer should be responsible for providing the "energy" needed for you to get back & forth to work?  Do they pay for the gas you use now?

 

I'm pretty sure the underlying intent is for most BEV users to charge at home.

 

HRG

I don't and they shouldn't have to, but they've pledged to install so many charging stations across the company and every facility and so far I haven't seen it. 

[jasonj80]

25 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I'm pretty sure the underlying intent is for most BEV users to charge at home.

 

Probably both,

With Fast Charging DC in the next 5 years it will be as fast to charge at a public charger as what it was to fill up in a gas station on a road, but you can also just plug in at home over night. The difference is that the public chargers can be everywhere. The new electrical code will include 220V plugs in home garages now. Cities are requiring electric charging stations as new developments. Speedway saw this coming and sold off its gas station business, as the market is going to change dramatically if 40% of your business goes away over the next 10 years get that value out of them now. 

The vast majority of people will be driving an electric car in 15 years; once you drive one you really don't want to go back to an ICE vehicle, they are slower, rougher and are not as fun to drive. It is the reason people deal with all the problems Tesla have, even with a ton of problems they are smoother and more powerful than ICE. Mach-E is going to change that though.  

[HotRunrGuy]

14 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I don't and they shouldn't have to, but they've pledged to install so many charging stations across the company and every facility and so far I haven't seen it. 

 

Could be they are considering just installing NEMA 14-50 outlets, and let users use their own charging cables, supplied with the vehicle. Would certainly save a lot of up-front costs.

 

HRG

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

So by just saying, with no proof, that ICE cars are unsustainable that makes it true?  I don’t think that’s how it works.  
 

Right now there are severe compromises with EVs.  Those are not going away anytime soon.  The biggest issue is range.  But solving that issue is complex.  Bigger batteries is probably the cheapest solution but that impacts every other aspect of the vehicle.  Putting in charging stations is wildly expensive and even then you have to sit for hours to get a full charge.  Lastly we are not at the point where we can charge the batteries in a reasonable amount of time.  If the batteries could be charged in 10-15 minutes it would be an entirely different story.  I don’t even need to mention the amount of money it would take to upgrade the grid to allow for all these vehicles.  Our grid can’t handle the load out on it now. 

 

An automotive channel on YouTube towed a camper trailer with their Model X from Denver to the PNW.  Their trip was far longer than with a traditional ICE vehicle.  It was unacceptable.  That’s the reality.  
 

Right now, EVs are great second vehicles or for people that don’t travel or leave their home area very much.  That’s a small group of people.  But for everyone else, people that travel, people that don’t have the extra money to spend $45k on a second car and would rather spend $20k on a gently used Fusion for example, tow things, need a truck/suv/etc it’s just not a viable option and there is nothing in the future that says it’s going to change anytime soon.  
 

As for governments “banning” the sale of ICE vehicles, it’s all a smoke show.  They do it to get votes and please their base.  And as soon as they leave office it can be reversed. 
 

 

range isn't the only issue...their environmental signature and the damage the mining does to the environment somehow never enter into conversations regarding "cleanliness " then theres ultimately all the chemical utilized and ultimately their disposal...along with batteries......

[FordBuyer]

6 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

One of those rare moments where I agree with rperez817.....ICE powered anything is on the precipice of changing...maybe we won't see the full implementation of it but my kids and grandkids will one day look at my 1983 Mustang GLX with amazement.

Wow, I owned a 1983 GLX convertible 5.0 with manual trans. It was triple black with red pinstripes. Sold it in 2000 for decent money since it never saw winter. Saw a 1984 GT yesterday convertible in same paint scheme in pristine condition. These fox body V8 Mustangs are really starting to move up in value. A nice one will easily move into $15,000 territory. Only thing I didn't like about mine was the wheel hop over crappy Michigan roads. Traction bars didn't help much. But the 5.0 burble with top down was glorious. Long live the Fox body V8 Mustang. 

[FordBuyer]

22 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

Probably both,

With Fast Charging DC in the next 5 years it will be as fast to charge at a public charger as what it was to fill up in a gas station on a road, but you can also just plug in at home over night. The difference is that the public chargers can be everywhere. The new electrical code will include 220V plugs in home garages now. Cities are requiring electric charging stations as new developments. Speedway saw this coming and sold off its gas station business, as the market is going to change dramatically if 40% of your business goes away over the next 10 years get that value out of them now. 

The vast majority of people will be driving an electric car in 15 years; once you drive one you really don't want to go back to an ICE vehicle, they are slower, rougher and are not as fun to drive. It is the reason people deal with all the problems Tesla have, even with a ton of problems they are smoother and more powerful than ICE. Mach-E is going to change that though.  

Time will tell. And it will be well into the future even if it does happy. The used vehicle market is a 40+ million/year sales market and almost all ICE and is not going away any time soon. Add in the growing collector vehicle market and even if you are only 35 years old, you will not see the demise of ICE.